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Don't Doubt all of History

by Wriskypump


“One of the most certain facts of history is that Jesus was crucified on orders of the Roman prefect of Judea, Pontius Pilate.” - Bart Ehrman, The Historical Jesus: Lecture Transcript and Course Guidebook 2000. p. 162) Ehrman has a Ph.D. from Princeton.



Marcus Borg – Ph.D. Former Distinguished Professor of Religion and Culture at Oregon State University. He is a Bible scholar and an agnostic who believes Jesus was a Jewish prophet and teacher.

In an interview, Borg is asked “So we have the proposition: “Jesus once walked this earth.” True or false?”. Borg responds: “True. The reasons for thinking that Jesus was invented by the early Christians are so weak. We have no reason to think that they did.”

In another interview Borg stated: “Though a few books have recently argued that Jesus never existed, the evidence that he did is persuasive to the vast majority of scholars, whether Christian or non-Christian”.

Numerous scholars of antiquity & almost universally in the modern age agree that Jesus existed. How has this been deduced? By drawing from these.

9 Ancient Secular testaments: Josephus (Roman-Jewish historian), Tacitus (Roman historian), Pliny the Younger (Roman politician), Phlegon (freed slave who wrote histories), Lucian (Greek satirist), Celsus (Roman philosopher), Mara Bar Serapion (prisoner awaiting execution), Suetonius (journaled the first 11 emperors of the roman empire), and Thallus (wrote a three-volume history of the Mediterranean World.)

And this doesn’t even include the hundreds of ancient textual references in the Old Testament that predicted Jesus manner of death, time of birth, place of birth, and burial.

If this is true, then Jesus (or Joshua as he would’ve been called in Hebrew) was a real man that walked this earth. He is the only person I know who claimed to be God and demonstrated unlimited power by miracles, including making several thousand pounds of fish and bread loaves out of 5 loafs of bread and 2 fish. What? I don’t think even a historian can get that wrong, or unintentionally exaggerate the account that much. Jesus also stopped a storm so strenuous it had experienced sailors quaking for their very lives - by saying “Be Still.” All the wind and rain stopped instantly. And if his existence is so there remains an unimaginably small number of things that Jesus could have been.



C.S. Lewis

"A man who was merely a man and said [and did] the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg ‑ or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the son of God: or else a madman or an outrageous liar."

Liar, Lunatic, or Lord? At least you might give him a chance, considering what Joshua did.



But if you are a skeptic when it comes to ancient certification of documentation (which then you couldn’t trust the vast majority of what’s written in History Books period), then there’s also the flood evidence left behind in the rock layers; and fossils of sea creatures who dwell at the bottom of the ocean - strewn haphazardly about high on mountain peaks across the world.


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Sun May 28, 2017 9:37 pm
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Tuckster wrote a review...



Hey there! I'm not sure how to review this, so I'm simply going to treat it as a submission for a written debate. With that said, I agree with you here, so it might be a bit hard. But I'll do my best :)

I would caution you to make sure you don't commit a fallacy of ignorance here. (If you don't know, fallacies of ignorance are a subcategory of fallacies of relevance. The fallacy of ignorance pushes the burden of proof onto the opponent, for example "Vitamins must be good for you, no one has proven to me that they aren't.") I don't think that it would be valid yet to call you out on that, but it's something to be aware of.

Numerous scholars of antiquity & almost universally in the modern age agree that Jesus existed.
This hasn't been completely proven. You're making a disputable claim here without offering evidence to support your premise.

. He is the only person I know who claimed to be God
While I generally agree with the point of the paragraph here, you would be better off simply saying "He demonstrated his superiority over nature several times by performing miracles" And if you are arguing that he was more than a prophet, you should definitely mention his resurrection. While other prophets could work miracles, Jesus was the only one who defeated death once and for all. That's a much stronger proof than what you offered here.

Other than that, I agree with your points here and thought it was a well-written essay and clearly took some time and effort, and I appreciate your dedication to the topic and trying to prove a controversial point.

Best wishes,
MJ




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Sun May 28, 2017 8:57 pm
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Thisislegacy wrote a review...



Legacy here for a review.

I will keep my own religious beliefs out of this review because you did not ask for them. (you may pm me if you wish to know).

Onward. Your essay is incomplete. You have no clear opening, you dig straight to telling the credibility of one of your sources.

You also have no clear argument. Are you arguing that Jesus was a real person or are you arguing that Jesus was the person that is depicted exactly as he is in the Bible?

You also don't have a counter argument (which is important to argumentative essays like you have here because of the fact if you don't show the other side then it makes it look like you are very biased when you aren't trying to look that way).

Generally in essays, they are written in third person (they, it, him, her) and you didn't stay with that in multiple spots.
"He is the only person I know who claimed to be God" you do it here, and it would be a good idea to rewrite this part because like stated above, generally I statements aren't used in argumentative essays.
"But if you are a skeptic when it comes to ancient certification of documentation" you also do it here. This could easily be rewritten as "critics of ancient certification of documentation".

I don't understand the argument that you make at the end about the flood evidence. I believe any flood evidence has been explained by ice ages (but I may be wrong, I have not done any research on this topic).

You also didn't keep up with your tenses. You began writing in past tense and at the end you switched to present tense.
"and fossils of sea creatures who dwell at the bottom of the ocean" could easily be rewritten as "and fossils of sea creatures that dwelled at the bottom of the ocean".

Also in essays, it is necessary to add in-text citations showing where you got the information and a works cited at the end showing where you did your research for this paper.

Overall, this essay is incomplete and needs some editing in the publishing center. If you have any questions, you can ask in the comments or in a pm. Legacy.




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Sun May 28, 2017 1:47 pm
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Kaylaa wrote a review...



This is Nikayla here dropping in for another review on this Review Day.

So I'm glad that you don't write essays in the way that you write poetry. It's much clearer in aesthetic, so I thank you for that. Moving on from that, I'm not sure what you're arguing in this article of yours. Are you arguing that Jesus existed and you're giving proof as to why? I'm unsure of who this essay is directed to. I'm in the belief that Jesus existed, but I don't believe in the Bible. I'm an Agnostic. And that is where, I believe, you dig up a misconception. Just because scholars or historians have said that they believe in Jesus, does not mean that they believe in the Bible.

Jesus could have existed--as a regular man, and that's a perfectly plausible theory, and I'm thinking that's what these people mean by saying that they believe in Jesus. The actual structure of your argument or your essay is rather weak, I've found. There's no introduction into what we're going to be talking about other than a quote at the beginning of your work. There's no introductory paragraph or even an opening line or sentence that tells us what you're going to be talking about here, and because of that, this feels incomplete.

The outro doesn't do a lot to summarize what you've claimed and there's a lack of sources that are used throughout the article. There is no solid evidence that what you're saying is true. All that we have is your word and a few sources that support your argument. There's not an insight to the other side of the coin. There's no firm proof that shows that your last paragraph is true. You could state that the reader could look it up, but it's your job to prove your argument or to sway the audience in your direction, and due to the lack of sources and citing, you fail at this.


But if you are a skeptic when it comes to ancient certification of documentation (which then you couldn’t trust the vast majority of what’s written in History Books period), then there’s also the flood evidence left behind in the rock layers; and fossils of sea creatures who dwell at the bottom of the ocean - strewn haphazardly about high on mountain peaks across the world.


I wanted to point out the last paragraph in particular. You say that there is flood evidence left behind in the rock layers and you talk to the 'skeptics' in your ending paragraph. I'm unsure, though, of what the fossils of sea creatures have to do with proving that Jesus existed. Unless they were ones described in the Bible, then I see no reason to bring them up. And even then, that doesn't prove that Jesus existed and that the Bible is correct. You seem to be trying to say that historians and scholars have said that Jesus existed, which must mean the Bible is fact, yet this isn't what they're saying.

They're simply saying that a man named Jesus could have existed, and he probably did. And at the same time, this doesn't prove anything towards your argument that this means that Jesus did all the things that he did in the Bible. Though, for the main point that I had to offer here: where is the flood evidence left behind in the rock layers? Links to this? Pictures that you have to share? You say it without attempting to prove it. I'm not seeing the evidence in the rock layers because you never offered sources to this. Give more evidence and work on a stronger structure, and maybe then your argument would be more convincing.

If you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask. I hope I helped and have a great day.

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Wriskypump says...


Woah. This is a really good review actually, thanks! I don't get too many with this quantity or content!

You seem to miss the point of C.S. Lewis's whole meaning, however. If Jesus is not a fictional character, then we have to believe him or not. He's not like anything the world has EVER seen. And (oxymoron) He's documented beyond belief! Did He do those miracles? Well he's documented. Was he crazy/deranged/insane? Well not if he could those miracles. Was he lying and somehow doing a magic trick? Well his disciples were around him all the time for Over 3 years. Was there a world-wide flood like described in Genesis that no one can remember? The earth seems to have it documented.




It usually takes more than three weeks to prepare a good impromptu speech.
— Mark Twain