discussion on Twilight (and Eragon)

Bickazer wrote:A good vampire-human couple should be dark, disturbing, wrong and frakked up on so many levels, and it should be treated as such. We all agree Edward/Bella is not the most healthy of relationships, but Meyer insists on giving it the "twoo ruv" treatment, without realizing the potential she's lost for writing a twisted relationship with an unhappy ending. (But I maintain that Twilight would have been better if Edward was a serial killer and Bella one of a long line of victims...but that's neither here nor there).

Ah, you have made me see the light.

Actually, I'm writing a twisted relationship myself right now and while I love a good fluffy romantic ending, tragic ones really do cut me to the quick.

If you have a messed-up couple, there is really no chance for a happy ending unless there is major heartache and change along their journey. Ed and Bells sort of just get together. The only thing keeping them apart is the fact that he won't change her. Seriously, three books of angsting could have been avoided if he had just friggin' changed her.

I think that was the second-most annoying thing about the whole series: it took them so friggin' long to get to the making-vampire. And then Bella's totally chill with it. There is no conflict, no epic freaking out, no nothing. Just learning subtle body language and getting used to everyone smelling tasty. Why not write a story where the human gets turned vamp and then all hell breaks loose? They hate the vampire that turned them and go on an epic rampage of rage and whatnot. Have them deal with the nasty consequences of thirsting for blood. Make it matter, other than being some easy way to supermodel beauty and Superman senses/strength. Have some accidents happen. Geez...

Sorry, double posted somehow.

Hey guys wookie is back. I'm here to discuss a couple of point I've missed, ok? I've noticed that some of you guys are kindda bashing Stephanie Meyers writing style and I think that's a little harsh.You don't see me bashing Jk Rowling or Christopher Paolini (which are to very amazing authors) So yeah I found that a little over the top. Maybe I'm just taking it the wrong way but...

Point number two:

Did you hear about the "Twilight Proms" in which you had to be a character look-alike to win entry? Some girls *physically* broke their legs so that they could match Bella Swan on her prom night. The author, on her website, merely praised this as "attention to detail".

Ok yeah I did hear about Twilight Proms and I'm pretty sure they were just wearing the cast they didn't really break there legs. That's stupid. "Oh I wanna be Bella so I'm gonna break my leg!!!!" Really? You don't see me tripping on purpose and stealing yellow porches to be the characters. Please...

Jacob, hes an asshole, and if I was friends with Bella, I would give him a talking to about giving Bella some space.

Take it back!!!!! Take it back!!!!!!! Insult Twilight, insult Edward, insult Jacob and you cross the line!!!!!

...and trust me when I say that I hate it that those girls are stupid enough to live on a fantasy hope like that. It screws us normal guys over, because in their minds, we AREN'T Ed, and we could never live up to his dimensions...and I can't tell you how much that pisses me off.

not that that has anything to do with how well-written the book is...haha. Sorry, I just needed to get that one off my chest.

Ok first: What afraid of a little competition? Sorry I couldn't resist!!!

But yeah dude we are Twilighters not stupid!!!! We know Edward doesn't exist!!! We know that there is no one like Edward!!!!! We know that!!!! Like I said before we are not stupid!!!! Yeah we do say "I wanna date someone like Edward" but that is the same thing as saying "I wanna date someone like Jesse McCarteney" We are being normal teenage girls. Only instead of comparing guys from a scale form one to Zac Efron we now compare them to a scale from one to Edward or Jacob or Emmett depends on your taste. Oh and BTW it's Edward not Ed. So really there is no reason for you to be so ticked. In conclusion: We are not stupid!!!! We are girls that like Twilight!!!!!

And again I think insulting Stephanie Meyer is a little over the top...

Ok so that's it... for now. Bye.

thats just you, i know people that havent been brought to reality on the whole thing, and they truly do want edward, vampire and all, to walk up to them, no questions asked. Its sick. But thats my end to this, i dont want to argue over a book that doesnt really matter in the grand scheme of things

normally id have no problem with the books, but the influence they have on some people puts a negative light on them for me.

I've noticed that some of you guys are kindda bashing Stephanie Meyers writing style and I think that's a little harsh.You don't see me bashing Jk Rowling or Christopher Paolini (which are to very amazing authors) So yeah I found that a little over the top.

We are not at all "bashing" S. Meyer. We are simply discussing points of her story and writing style that we dislike. As far as I can recall, no one in this thread has called her any disparaging names or insulted her intelligence. We have simply stated that we do not care for her style or her stories. This is hardly bashing.

Also, I disagree that Paolini is an "amazing" author. I dislike his writing and I dislike him, based on the interviews I've seen with him. He comes across as extremely pretentious and full of himself. His stories and characters are pedantic and poorly executed rip-offs. He tries to be "EPIC", but he doesn't seem to grasp the concept that making your MC the shiniest, most magical, most speshul guy EVAR reduces the epic quality of your story. I find Murtagh to be his only intriguing and solid character, and I believe Paolini will do what too many sub-par writers do with characters like Murtagh: he'll just kill him off in order to "redeem" him to the Good Guys. This is cheap, fast, and uninteresting. He wrote Eragon at 15, so I can accept the issues in that story, but he's 26 now! He should know better, but his writing has not improved. If anything, it's become more purple, more pretentious, and more confused.

Take it back!!!!! Take it back!!!!!!! Insult Twilight, insult Edward, insult Jacob and you cross the line!!!!!

This outburst really doesn't help your case. A large part of my dislike of Twilight is the obsessive fangirling it causes and the detrimental effect its having on teenaged girls by presenting an emotionally and psychologically abusive relationship as the ideal true love. If you want Anti-Twilighters to take you seriously and listen to what you have to say, avoid squeeing over your favorite characters, however much you like them.

Ok first: What afraid of a little competition? Sorry I couldn't resist!!!

But yeah dude we are Twilighters not stupid!!!! We know Edward doesn't exist!!! We know that there is no one like Edward!!!!! We know that!!!! Like I said before we are not stupid!!!! Yeah we do say "I wanna date someone like Edward" but that is the same thing as saying "I wanna date someone like Jesse McCarteney" We are being normal teenage girls. Only instead of comparing guys from a scale form one to Zac Efron we now compare them to a scale from one to Edward or Jacob or Emmett depends on your taste. Oh and BTW it's Edward not Ed. So really there is no reason for you to be so ticked. In conclusion: We are not stupid!!!! We are girls that like Twilight!!!!!

His point is that it's an unrealistic comparison. Bravo for you for knowing the clear difference between fantasy and reality. Unfortunately, that is not the case for a lot of Twifans. They see Edward as the ultimate ideal, and they will either 1) never, ever be happy with anything that doesn't meet that expectation, or 2) fall for the first guy who treats her the way Edward treats Bella: with total disrespect for her individuality, and that is dangerous and damaging. My 14 year-old brother is coming up against this very problem right now. Girls expect him to be like Edward Cullen or Jacob Black and he is literally disgusted.

Most Anti-Twilighters oppose the story out of their disagreement with the fangirling culture it has spawned, its poor literary quality, and just plain personal dislike of the subject, of Bella, of the first-person format, or anything that just bugs them about it. We don't hate S. Meyer, nor do we bash her and insult her simply because we don't like her books. I'll admit, I have little respect for Meyer as an artist, but that doesn't give me the right to be rude to or about her. If I met her, I would congratulate her for her success, but would admit that I was not a fan of her work because I just personally don't go for the whole idea of it. Edward simply does not fit my framework of the ideal mate. In fact, he fits rather the opposite. I can't relate to Bella in any way at all. Therefore, Twilight is repulsive to me because of my own personal tastes, not just because of what I judge to be "good literature".

Ok yeah I did hear about Twilight Proms and I'm pretty sure they were just wearing the cast they didn't really break there legs. That's stupid. "Oh I wanna be Bella so I'm gonna break my leg!!!!" Really? You don't see me tripping on purpose and stealing yellow porches to be the characters. Please...

I just want to say:
Who says people are incapable of being stupid? Harry Potter fans, Buffy the Vampire fans, *any* fandom can be taken to the extreme. There *are* some people out there who believe that Edward Cullen is real, that Twilight should be read daily like the Bible, and that if you live a good life, you'll be blessed with eternity with the Cullens. (It's a new "religion". Search Cullenism.) So basically, some fans take it to the extreme. It's stupid, yes. And just because one Twilight fan does it, doesn't mean I'm accusing you of obsessive fandom to the point of stupidity. XD I *don't* see you tripping on puropse, but I bet there are some out there who do.

Take it back!!!!! Take it back!!!!!!! Insult Twilight, insult Edward, insult Jacob and you cross the line!!!!!

XD Deep breaths now. People are allowed to dislike a character. Don't you agree that it was a *little* funny that Jacob imprinted on Bella's unborn child?

I don't find anything sick with the idea of someone wanting a fictional character out of a book. I wouldn't allow my boyfriend to be anything but Rhett Butler; perfectly clipped mustache and all. That's part of the magic of escapism; it consumes you until you find something else to fantasize about.
Edward Cullen is repulsive. So is Jacob Black (how I hate that name) and everyone in the Twilight universe. They inarticulate; hormone-driven (and in Edward's case; emotionally unstable and domineering) characters, the whole lot.
I do not dislike Stephenie Meyer. She culled out a career for herself in the watered-down harlequin romance industry. Good for her.
But the idea of a saga such as twilight being liked, revered, worshipped on a mass scale?!
Honest to god, I'd rather date House.
And I'm a fourteen year-old girl; I am part of this statistic!
The worst part of this is all the rip-off books, shows, movies...
I don't hate Stephenie Meyer; but it's my personal opinion that the world would be a much, much better place if she... folded into another dimension? Was carried off by Martian invaders?

empressoftheuniverse wrote:I don't find anything sick with the idea of someone wanting a fictional character out of a book. I wouldn't allow my boyfriend to be anything but Rhett Butler; perfectly clipped mustache and all. That's part of the magic of escapism; it consumes you until you find something else to fantasize about.

Okay, I just have one last thing to say on the matter then, and that's it, I won't say another word. I just have to be honest: Escapism is what killed Kurt Cobain. The moment you let anything cosume you, you lose all hope of being free.

But enough talk from an old man. I'll let you guys get back to discussing the book.

OooooooooK. Um, I'm feeling that this is turning into a war. Sorry for bashing Twilight every Twifan. I'm sorry if I offended you; I never said I disliked the entire thing. It would be hard to hate all of a book, no matter how dreadful it may seem. For example, practically all the werewolves, not just Jacob Black, are quite good, as well as Carlisle Cullen.
I just think that Edwellacob is just... a little... eh. I dislike the two main characters and Jacob. In fact, I've been writing a short fanfic on how the series should have gone, where, after a normal C-Sec rather than 'blood everywhere!', Bella is still human, and everybody is happy. Until... on the night Edward is going to turn Bella vampiric, she gets captured by another, unintroduced vampire. Edward then teams up with Jacob to find her and/or get revenge. Have to admit, its more awesome than 'OK, battle doesn't happen, everybody go home'.

Sorry again.
And, empressoftheuniverse, how dare you dis Hugh Laurie! JK, JK.

Sorry, for the final time. If anybody has a problem with me, just, ya know... mumble.

empressoftheuniverse wrote:Honest to god, I'd rather date House.

There are many people that would rather date House. *wiggles eyebrows*

No, really, I have no problem with escapism. That's why I read. Period. I like to immerse myself in another person's troubles in order to not worry about my own. I like to have an adventure that I can't have otherwise. But I don't apply it obsessively to my own life.

That said, if you see a quality in a fictional character that you would like to see in your real-world special someone, by all means pursue it. You have standards, that's fine. I just have issues with a character such as Edward being pursued as the ultimate in standards when he is clearly so damaged. I also have issues with "Romeo and Juliet" being considered the ultimate love story (it's not, let's just say), Rochester being a romantic hero (manipulative, lying, polygamist sirrah that he is) and many others. I don't have a problem with standards coming from fictional material; I just have issues with strangely wrong standards period.

There's escapism and there's Escapism! Regular old escapism is fine and, honestly, probably necessary for our sanity. It's healthy to get out of your own head for a while, and immerse yourself in someone else's thoughts for a while. But when escapism turns into Escapism is when you start dressing like the characters on a daily basis (and I'm not talking a piece of jewelry or a hair style here or there), when thoughts of the character or story you're fixated on start affecting your real life (school, work, real world relationships), when you do things like marry the character or actor online or file your teeth to match a vampire's fangs. That is Escapism, and that is not only weird and creepy, it has the signs of being based in some serious emotional or mental problems. Example: on the TV show Bones, the MC is a best selling novelist. One of her "biggest fans" suspends mannequins from his ceiling bound and gagged in red tape like happens to the murder victims in her newest book so that he can "re-enact" it and "feel close to her". Creepy.

If you and your boyfriend decide to go as Edward and Bella for Halloween,or you wear Alice Cullen's choker to school every day, does that mean you're a stupid, mentally unstable teenaged girl who should be committed to the crazy house? Of course not.

If you start to purposefully act like Bella, expect your boyfriend to act like Edward, harm yourself to be more like Bella, permanently change your appearance to look like a Meyer vamp. are you a stupid, mentally unstable teenaged girl who should be committed to the crazy house? Hells yes, you are. (Though I seriously doubt any of the most hardcore Twifans here are at this level of bonkers. You'd have to be a little messed up in the head before reading Twilight for something this extreme.)

This kind of thing applies to all fandoms, not just Twilight. People just fixate on Twilight because it happens to be the nexus point of all that kind of crazy right now because of its popularity. But hey, Twifans! Be glad its just us fellow writers who are complaining about the tragic degradation of the young female psyche that Twilight causes...be glad the media hasn't joined us, or you'd end up like D&D in the 80s! Satanic Panic, anyone?


Also, I am adding myself to the list of people who would rather date House.

Jack-a-Lynn wrote:There's escapism and there's Escapism! Regular old escapism is fine and, honestly, probably necessary for our sanity. It's healthy to get out of your own head for a while, and immerse yourself in someone else's thoughts for a while. But when escapism turns into Escapism is when you start dressing like the characters on a daily basis (and I'm not talking a piece of jewelry or a hair style here or there), when thoughts of the character or story you're fixated on start affecting your real life (school, work, real world relationships), when you do things like marry the character or actor online or file your teeth to match a vampire's fangs. That is Escapism, and that is not only weird and creepy, it has the signs of being based in some serious emotional or mental problems. Example: on the TV show Bones, the MC is a best selling novelist. One of her "biggest fans" suspends mannequins from his ceiling bound and gagged in red tape like happens to the murder victims in her newest book so that he can "re-enact" it and "feel close to her". Creepy.

Yeah...I'd meant to clarify earlier but couldn't get around to it. You hit the nail on the head with escapism. This is what I'd meant to really say anyways. Glad someone else could put it in better words than me.

Ok first of all when I said "Take it back take it back" It was a joke to make you laugh Ha ha? You weren't supposed to take it so literal!!! It was a joke!!!! Geez...

I retract my statement about House and replace it with "That guy from the Dos Equis Commercial," I was trying to think of someone who would turn me into a social pariah.

*pops in out of nowhere*

Just to put in my opinion I am going to mention what I have said on other threads.

Stephanie Meyer made a lot of money out of this, and got people who considered reading "uncool" to actually read. Congratulations to her!
I just doesn't mean that her writing is good. But when it comes to Twifans, some people live for obsessing over something. Look at the "Trekkies" no one has raised much alarm against them. Just die-hard fans are people who have self-esteem issues mostly. They say to themselves "Look how popular and loved Bella is! She gets the most perfect guys like ever. Maybe if I act like her the same thing will happen to me."

Yes it isn't right and those people do need some guidance, but some people need something to worship/defend with their lives to actually live. It can also be the teenage need to be socially accepted, but I won't know I disliked Twilight and I read it in 2006. Long before this trend/popularity thing happened. People are entitled to their tastes no matter if they agree with me or not but being so obessed like some people are is not only stupid but dangerous for your mental state and in this case physical state.

Kamas

*disappears again*