Young Writers Society

Reyu: I agree. Lets promote everyone! Good to see you commenting

Lily: Explaining the rules to new members actually chases away more than it attracts.


On Everything

Look, no system is going to be perfect, and both sides bring up good points because both systems are imperfect. What I'm seeking to do here is make YWS a better place, and there are a lot of problems with the current system that probably aren't readily apparent unless you administrate the site.

Yet, I've said everything has been said and right now, this is only going around in circles. What I'm going to do is set up a poll to decide what we should do. As with prior polls of such type, 60% will be needed to get rid of the current color system.

This is ... a long thread now. I do have (something else) to say.

Earlier, Elinor said:

I've found that new members trust me a lot more now that I've been blue. When I was black and in the welcome forum, new members replied to my posts, but when I was blue, they PMed me with all sorts of questions, asking me about the site and such. When I explained to them what a greeter was and that I was one, I think that they felt trusted when I was in their hands. Knowing that I'm part of the YWS staff in way will help new members feel more secure.

I know that this is a main worry of some people. Now, it certainly helps to have a blue or purple name while on YWS at this moment, I agree with that. But, don't you see, that when all the colours have been taken away then no-one here will be seen as anything more than anyone else just because of their coloured name?
Everyone’s name will be black, so those members who are great reviewers/greeters will be nominated regardless of what status they might have had before. You won't be seen as that special just because of your colour any more, but no-one else will either.

It shouldn't matter whether your name is bright blue, purple or black; it will all be the same when the changes take place. And new members won’t even know what instructors or greeters are (wow, that’s weird).
And, if you’re really worried about not being recognised as a greeter or instructor, just remember that you’ll get a shiny greeting/reviewing badge!

Don't just rely on a coloured name, it’s your skills that got you that colour and this isn’t going to remove those, is it?

Please don't take this as me going Greeter/Instructor bashing. I am both of them, and I think that they all do such a wonderful job the entire time. I just think that this is all going in circles, and maybe everyone should really focus on how to make this change the best change it could be, rather than picking holes in something that ultimately is going to be for the good of everyone. Sure, we can help to iron out the cracks, but why not make it nice rather than negative? Positive thinking does wonders for the complexion, or so I’ve heard.

Ps. Sorry if this doesn’t make sense. I’m not great at voicing my opinions eloquently. Not at all.

~Amy

I re-read through the entire discussion, and I agree with Evi. YWS isn't ready to get rid of the rainbow just yet. But I thought for a moment:

Why not integrate the two ideas?

Badges and colours seem to be the exact same thing to me. Nate mentioned how they were awards on the robes. Sure in roman times, coloured robes represented power. But think in the military, who would you go to: The person covered in metals and badges, or the man in simple uniform?

But why shouldn't there be a public nomination of greeters and instructors? Have the members who feel someone should be an Instructor due to a fantastic review, or that someone feels another should be a greeter because they made them feel welcomed.

Also, I back up Jigs' point. People aren't selfish to an extreme extent, 'Oh, I'm going to do 100 reviews/greets so I can have the recognition that comes with a colour'
Reviewing and greeting is a lot of work if you ask me. People aren't going to do that much work if it's for purely personal gain.

Now, I'm fine with whatever happens. But I think this is going to need some more thinking through before it's put into action.

Kamas

Well I just spent at least forty-five minutes reading all the comments.

I agree with what Nate said around page three or four about how it's a lot more satisfying to be nominated by your peers for something you've done instead of nominating yourself (like when you apply for a position).
But what I'm still slightly afraid of is people are going to just review/greet up a storm for a month or so to get noticed and to get their shiny badge and once they get it they won't review/greet anymore. Technically with the colors/groups there could be the same problem but if a greeter/instructor gets the job and then never actually do their job, it gets taken away. So if you got a badge and then never did what you got the badge for again, could it be taken away? (That made sense in my mind, hopefully it translated )
One other question is what is the difference between the two reviewing badges?

I think Galerius has made some really excellent points and now I'm kind of torn. I like the idea of having the user-nominated badges but I also like the idea of having the groups because it's easy to see who the 'go-to' people are for various things.

I could probably say more but I have a feeling I would start talking in circles.

Kamas wrote:Why not integrate the two ideas?

But why shouldn't there be a public nomination of greeters and instructors? Have the members who feel someone should be an Instructor due to a fantastic review, or that someone feels another should be a greeter because they made them feel welcomed.

I definitely support this idea. That way we only have the people who really deserve it in purple and blue, and people get nominated, like Nate was wanting - Everyone is happy.

Guys, you're missing the point that was made before. This is so that people can be recognised as individuals, rather than part of a group. Well, I think that's right anyway ...

AquaMarine wrote:Guys, you're missing the point that was made before. This is so that people can be recognised as individuals, rather than part of a group. Well, I think that's right anyway ...

And how would badges recognize people as individuals? They are generic badges, and people are less likely to be recognized as individuals if everyone is black.

But that's not what I'm trying to say. If we reach a medium then majority of people will be happy. If we leave it to votes, a group will be upset. And having a portion of the population of this community upset, will make it less of a community.

I agree with Jiggity.
I'm really not planning on going around up to people's faces and saying, "Poor you, no color? Goodbye."
And plus it's quite the opposite. By being a greeter\instructor you get the chance to meet new people, and make more friends, despite their 'color', no?
But the badges are nice too, just more complex than the colors.
I'm perfectly alright either way, and excited. ^^

Because, Elinor, when you begin to put people into groups then, as some people have pointed out, it becomes about status rather than recognition. The badges, as Nate said, are about awarding people for their hard work. The colours are statuses within YWS, statuses that can cause problems. (I think I've gone off the point here.)

And, Kammie, I know that. Maybe that is the way to go, I don't know. Or we could turn to utilitarianism and decide to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

Does anyone else think of 'The Incredibles' while reading this?

Kamas wrote:But that's not what I'm trying to say. If we reach a medium then majority of people will be happy. If we leave it to votes, a group will be upset. And having a portion of the population of this community upset, will make it less of a community.

I agree with that too, but sadly we cannot make everyone happy.
We all have to cooperate some way or the other, each one of us.
I'm ready to, whatever is best for YWS is what I have my eyes on.

Amy, sometimes we to compromise. And, since when were colors about statuses? Like Jiggity pointed out, a majority of greeters and instructors are taking themselves seriously. Their color is their recognition. Who says badges wont be about statuses? There are going to people who will be upset that they don't have as much badges as anyone else.

See, we're not really trying to attack any superiority inside the coloured groups. What we're trying to do is help remove some of the outer superiority. What I mean by that is, how other black members view the purps and the blues.

I'm not slandering any groups here. I love them both and have been in both. I also think they've got a humble attitude, and are very willing to serve the YWS population. As Conrad Rice said in a blog comment awhile ago, the colours can be seen as below the black members, because the colours mean that we're there to serve them. This attitude can spread past the blues and purps to the greens and reds, because YWS staff all have to have the members' interests at heart (we just also have to watch out for major problems). However, that mentality hasn't stuck. Black members, especially newer members, see the colours as something that makes those members "higher up" than the rest of the YWS population. This makes the colours look unapproachable, scary, what word you use. Yes, there were some who gravitated towards the colours and would always ask them for help. But, if you think about it, for every member who went to a colour another ran away because they were intimidated. I was in the latter camp. I didn't talk to colours for a month, until I talked to them in Chat and saw they were normal members.

Note my last sentence. Normal members. The badges would get rid of intimidation for members who would feel it, make more members get recognized for being good greeters/reviewers, And (if displayed on every member's posts) then it provides a way to distinguish those who do a good job. Yes, it would still provide a distinction between members. And, yes, it would replace the good aspects of the colours. You can't argue that members with a lot of badges might still be looked up to, that's just human nature, but you can argue that the badges are a much quieter way of doing so. There's a lot less intimidation going up to somebody who has a lot of awards than somebody who's in a certain group. Given a case study (pardon me for using advertising here) would you rather go to an agency who's got a lot of awards for being creative, getting good results, and having good quality work or an agency who's part of a group with a certain reputation? That, as I see it, is the difference between badges and groups. Both promise a good reputation, but awards show a bit more substance because they're not fitted to some mold of what's good and bad. Awards are what a group of people thought good. (Yes, the application system deals with this somewhat. But awards are more transparent)

Those are my two cents.

~Rosey

I never said we shouldn't compromise, El. I'm all for compromising. I just don't think that compromising by taking away the fundamental part of the change (the badges) is a great first step. And the groups are a status. I'm not saying that that's necessarily a bad thing, not at all. But it's true, I have a status as instructor and greeter. And people being upset about not getting badges is exactly the same as people getting upset at their applications being denied.

But, if you want my feelings, please ignore me and listen to Rosey. Thank you.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe I made a point. It's up to Nate to decide that.
I feel it's what I think should happen and Amy, you don't have to agree.
I find it silly to argue about this, I suggest instead of arguing over my point, either re-enforce the idea you support or propose another alternative.

Just think a little bit.

Kamas