a poem (warning, this piece has a lot of adult language)

Aren't you somewhat biased?

Anyway, swearing can be used to make a point and it can enhance a poem or story. HOWEVER. You have to have skill to use it effectively, otherwise it's trash.

Someone asked why so many people passed this up... I think it's either because they see it as garbage and unworthy of comments, or they're more innocent and are offended by this.

Of course, it's not like we have a lot of reviewers anyway, and a lot of members have become unactive...

Somewhat biased? If you know me at all, you know I'm brutally honest when it comes to these things.

Would I put it in an anthology? No. Of course not. In fact, I don't particularly care for the style. But I do feel he raises an interesting point about American language. Just because you don't happen to like it doesn't make it devoid of all artistic value. And just because I'm dating him doesn't mean it is. Is it so horrible to ask someone to look beyond the author himself and actually find something positive here? And I'd like you to consider--why don't you like this piece? Because of the language...or because Qi wrote it?

Sound good to whom, fire? Are you the grand master of what is or isn't good poetry anymore?

No, gal, that is what we sometimes call an "opinion".

I don't like this poem because it didn't do anything for me. You're making a big deal out of this. You seem to object to the fact people don't like it on the ASSUMPTION that we don't like it because of the language...or Qi *rolls eyes*....are you the grand master of everyone's thoughts now?

Alright guys, let's settle down.

Gal, I agree with Jack - there are other reasons we may not like this piece. I know you're protective, but we have a right to dislike this piece, do we not?

I suggest we all try to get back to actual critiques of this poem and not flames or debates. Gal, I apologize for what I said.

Two fundamental definitions:

1. Journal entry--Writing in which the writer tells the reader what emotions the writer is experiencing about something.

2. Poem--Writing in which the writer causes the reader to experience emotion about something.

This is a 1. It's "self expression" at its worst and shows us nothing other than the writer totally self-absorbed in himself, staring with rapt fascination into the intricacies of his own navel as if it were the only subject of interest in the world--and to the writer, it probably is. Not so, alas, to the reader who cares little or nothing about the writer or the writer's navel but who rather comes to poetry to experience and to feel something him or herself.


And this poem is something that Ferris Bueller could have written in his diary if he had kept one.

Yeah. It does have artistic merit because it shows us insight as to who the character of this writer is. Every piece of writing does that. But... I don't know. The real reason I don't like it is because it seems like a bunch of insults lobbed in a half-hazard, unreal fashion. Sometimes you may think this later on if the offending person does something particularly bad. And then, that is where the poem reveals who the writer is. The thoughts are so scattered, so crude, so selfish that is almost embarrassing to read it because it shows a part of a person's self which we would rather not go into. And such, it has artistic merit which nearly everyone hates.

EDIT: This isn't meant to be an insult, mind you. I've written things rather similar to this, which is one reason why I'm picking up the things I pick up. Everybody has these kind of feelings sooner or later, if not these, then the same thoughts with less cursing. You just displayed it in writing.

This may be poetry, but it certainly isn't art, nor does it have artistic merit. It is the standard, normative rants of everyone -- ultimately, it conforms. To conform for the new work is to not conform at all; it is not new, and it therefore can not be a work of art. Understand that art never improves, it never completely invents itself, so I'm not testing the merit of a work on complete originality, but that of the ability of the poem to take old materials and rearrange them.

Why do I care about the poet? Life is exchangeable, we have plenty of it everywhere. What we don't have everywhere is the ability to produce original materials, which this piece obviously didn't strive for. The risk any poem takes when it is concieved is the notion of lack of meaning -- the words in this poem are used so frequently they've lost all meaning. Meaningless words are to a poem as cancerous cells are to the body. Words and language could never sum up the character of the (author of the) poem.

"We live in society, but society also lives in us."
-Emile Durheim

A poem gives us little insight into the life of the poet, and, really, I could care less about him or her, but it does give us plenty of insight into the society in which the poet dwells, which I still find to be a totally useless critique and reading.

Yanno, you say it isn't art, but this one hap hazardly thrown together bunch of vulgarities has sparked more emotion, and more response than any other piece in this thread. You may not like it, and I damn well don't expect you too, but this piece has achieved exactly its intentions.

What gives something artistic merrit? What makes something art? What makes poetry poetry? Why?

Gal, I clearly outlined that above.

Qi, you may have reached your intention -- I'm sure you did. Attention doesn't make something art -- Gwen Stefani is not a work of art.

no, but gwen stefani doesn't draw out any emotion either, just mindless drab. This piece definately DID bring out some emotion, otherwise no one would care.

This seems like an angry comment if anything. I wonder what happened to poetry, what was once used to immortalize the great, and describe the beautiful things around us, has slowly turned into, well this, if indeed it is poetry.

Incan, dictionary definitions aren't what I'm looking for--otherwise I wouldn't have asked. Besides, I found your definitions rather convoluted.

Erethror, that's what people said about Ginsberg, not that Qi is Ginsberg. As far as I know, the goal of writing poems has never been to immortalize anything. Its always been to comment on the world around us. If that commentary happens to be upon the profanity of the nation, that's what it is. I am utterly astounded by the amount of arrogance I'm seeing here.

There are all kinds of different poetry, Gal, with all kinds of different intentions. It wouldn't surprize me if lots of medieval poets wrote about things and people so they would be remembered. In fact, I'm pretty sure songs and poems were written about people so they would be remembered. And there's also traditional Haiku. Many are just brief images of nature.

My art professor once told me 'Art isn't beautiful. It's isn't pretty. It's a comment".
I think that applies here.

Qi- this poem honestly did not make me feel much but amusement. Gal- I didn't think about this as a social commentary until you pointed it out, but I think you're right.

I enjoyed the flow of this. It did not feel haphazard. I didn't find the ending funny. I found it thought-provoking. Seeing how much you were willing to say in the body of the poem made me wonder what could possibly be deleted. I think the unknown insult is the most powerful because you know only its intent and not its definition. I like it.

I think if this was intended to be more of a commentary and less of a rant,a change of voice might help. If it was more of a "he said/she said" your (albeit perceived but not real) anger would loose focus to the language instead. I'm not sure how to accomplish this, however. Just a thought.

Keep swearing in poetry all you want. Just remember some people can't see past it.