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PMD: Seventeen Plates DT 3

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French is a language I definitely want to learn, but it is a pain. "Comment allez vous?" is pronounced "com-men ah-ley vu?" right? ("com" as in "dawn", but not as long, and "ley" as in "alley")

I'm fine in English, as long as people don't start asking me stuff about coordinating conjunctions, sub-*I actually forgot the rest* clauses, reflexive pronouns, and all that jargon. (Yes, it's ironic - I know what jargon, pleonisms, gobbledygook, malapropisms, circumlotion, and spoonerisms are, but not the full names for the parts of speech and other stuff... >_>)
But the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
— Paul the Apostle

Winter is inevitable. Spring will return eventually, and AstralHunter with it.




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@AstralHunter No. Not as in "alley". If you pronounce it that way, people are going to think that you're an average English Gentleman creep trying to blend in but not succeeding (I am not exaggerating). Just look up how to pronounce "é", because that's how you pronounce it.

I... don't like complex grammar jargon in general, even in French. And yes, that language IS a pain, but gosh... Those who master it make it look so fun to use, and now that I've reached the "dramatically sophisticated" level, lemme tell you, IT IS XD
"Is there a limit to how much living I can live with my life? How will I know if I've gone too far?
And why did I spend my life savings on sunglasses for a whale?
I shall find the answers... to these questions."




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I am double posting to answer to Char's rant session. I had missed it. Was it edited in? Dunno.

@Charizard821 Heheh. That's an easy answer, for someone such as I, who's learned English more usefully thanks to Video Games (thanks Megaman Zero/Paper Mario/so many others!) and Cartoons (thanks Samurai Jack/Ben 10/Megas XLR/so many others!) than school.

First and foremost, School gives you the basics, and most importantly, it gives you THEORICAL knowledge. Which means that you never truly know if you're good at a language or not unless you absorb the language's culture, typical expressions (the best way of doing so being by watching stuff from that country you're learning the language from, or just, you know, going there).
It's like feeding all of your Pokemons with Rare Candies and teaching them TMs that you THINK (or been told, like in school) are useful to reach the level of the Elite 4 but you NEVER ACTUALLY battle. You're gonna be good, but... you'll miss a lot of things. And they are going to see every single of your flaws and use that to destroy you.
From here, your job is to lose, get up, and understand/copy what they did to beat them at their own game.
That is how you learn a foreign language.

Though it your case, it's kind of unfair, because you just put your French to test against me, AKA a young student who took a L (literature) specialization and masters French in a better way than most of your average French people.
This isn't bragging, it's just what my specialization was for. So yeah! Lots of perfectly reasonable reasons for why School isn't enough to learn a language.



This explanation was brought to you by Language Theorist Shell Master Tortwag.
"Is there a limit to how much living I can live with my life? How will I know if I've gone too far?
And why did I spend my life savings on sunglasses for a whale?
I shall find the answers... to these questions."




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*facepalm*

I WROTE AN EXAM ON THAT WORD AND YET I STILL PRONOUNCE IT INCORRECTLY!

Oh, wait, I had to learn "assez". How did I pronounce that correctly, but not "allez"? (Assez means more, right? I initially thought it was "with" or "less", but that would be avec and meno, respectively.)

Oh well, then I'll just speak to them in Afrikaans, forcing them to ask me in English what I meant, after which I'll gladly speak to them like that. (My home language teacher told me.)

Also, "é" was the first letter with a diacritic I learned on the keyboard, since my brother's name ends with one, so I don't have to look up the pronunciation. Besides, all words with é in it, e.g. cliché, are pronounced the same way. (Well, except in Afrikaans, where the teachers correct you and say it's "cli-sheer", but that's an exception.)

I have more phrases for you on which to correct my pronunciation (and possibly spelling too):
♥ commen ça va - "com-men sa va"
♦ a bientôt - "ah bi-en-tot [the same as in commen, but probably not]"
♣ main droite - "mine droyte" initially, but then I remembered "rue" is "goo [as in "ugh"]", so probably "mine dgowt [as in "ugh"]"
♠ main gauche - "mine gawsh"

EDIT: Going through my phone, I saw "plus" meant "more", after which I remembered that "assez" was that word about which we complained, since it wasn't in our notes. It means "enough". I then also saw that "moins" [mwas?] meant "less", so "meno" is probably "without". Then I looked at my notes again and facepalmed, since "meno" does mean "less", but in Italian. "Sans" [saans?] is "without".
But the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
— Paul the Apostle

Winter is inevitable. Spring will return eventually, and AstralHunter with it.




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astral, I don't know anything about anything you just said and English is my first language XD
I have a license that lets me solve aids - A friend of mine


Here Comes the Birdyyyy ~Poopsie


You gotta have the confidence of a gazelle running through a herd of lions - TK Sharp


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@AstralHunter No Astral. "Assez" means "Enough". Literally.

Haha. Although you should do that because of how funny this situation would be, it'll only make things worse. Allow me to introduce you to the closed-minded side of French Society:

-They don't know what Afrikaan is, nor where the language comes from. Therefore, you're obviously speaking an African Dialect, since, YOU KNOW, AFRICA IS A VAST COUNTRY FULL OF SUB-COUNTRIES, AM I RIGHT.
Luckily, you're not black, so they're not going to automatically assume that you come for Africa, and they won't automatically ask for your origin either.
...*sigh*

-Since you're obviously speaking a language they don't understand nor recognize, they (ESPECIALLY the youngsters) will laugh awkwardly and proceed to speak French very slowly while making stupid signs.
AKA you, the receiver of such behavior, will start to get annoyed, as they act like you're some kind of moronic simpleton.

Conclusion? Speak English to them. That's the best possible answer, because since - many - French people don't understand what it means to be in foreign country and trying to blend in by speaking their language - as French people usually don't blend at ALL when they're in foreign country, me being an exception, but that's because my heritage is different than most French people, the other exceptions being open-minded people, which exist everywhere, thank goodness - you have to make sure they understand that your English is better than theirs.

Which, by the way, is also very satisfying.

For the rest of your comment:

- you forgot the "t" at the end of "Comment" in Comment ça va. Yes, there is one. French is devilishly tricky, I tell you.
- the "a" in "à bientôt" has an accent. The reason for that is because "a" without accent is a verb, and "à" isn't. Also? No. You certainly do not pronounce the "en" in "bientôt" like in "Comment". But like, I have to tell you how to do it, and I can't quite do that, since well, we're writing. And I don't know phonetics very well.
- I have no idea what you're talking about.
- Yes. That one's perfect.

EDIT: Nice self-corrections there.


@15253 That sentence of yours made me laugh more than it should've.
"Is there a limit to how much living I can live with my life? How will I know if I've gone too far?
And why did I spend my life savings on sunglasses for a whale?
I shall find the answers... to these questions."




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Hey it's a blue moon! :D
The Poopsiest.

JOIN THE RABBIT SQUAD TODAY


:smt003 :smt003 :smt003 :smt003 :smt003 :smt003 :smt003 :smt003

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USED TO BE VERSER
¯\_(ツ)_/¯




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Verser! Go back to studying Spanish! No dinner until you finish your homework!
I have a license that lets me solve aids - A friend of mine


Here Comes the Birdyyyy ~Poopsie


You gotta have the confidence of a gazelle running through a herd of lions - TK Sharp


I was once Numbers

Now I am Soup




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@Verser, you're here!

@Tortwag, I'll just address those in order of appearance.
Spoiler
1. I know assez means enough - that's precisely what I said in the corrections. However, considering what 15253 said, the confusion is understandable. ;)

2. While much of that explanation is useful (I'll get to it later), allow me to debunk that assumption in entirety. Afrikaans (please remember the s) is paradoxically named, since it is the polar opposite of any African language. French, Portuguese, and English are all commonly spoken by black Africans, but Afrikaans? Spoken - sometimes, but only here or in Namibia; commonly spoken - definitely not.

Lesson #1: Languages. Most of the modern languages are descended from ancient languages that are no longer spoken. One of these is Italic, from which Italian, French, Spanish, etc. derive. Another is Germanic. While languages like Dutch and German stem from it, English does to - and so does Afrikaans. In fact, Afrikaans is more Germanic than English, since someone who speaks only Afrikaans will understand someone who speaks only Dutch or German much better than someone who speaks only English. That is thanks to Dutch being Afrikaans' ancestor, and this is also why the language most related to it is one spoken in a province of Netherland.

So yeah, the language that has a name that implies it is the official language of Africa is actually European. Take a moment to think about that.

Lesson #2: History. Afrikaans originated in what was known as the Cape Colony, the capital of which was and still is Cape Town, my home. Originally, it was referred to as a language only uses in the kitchen. You see, whenever people are removed from the place where their language is primarily spoken, they aren't exposed to the same influences. The settlers who came here were exposed to different events and cultures than those who stayed in Europe, so their dialect developed independently and they began to borrow words from local languages too. Skipping forward in time, we reach the point where conflict breaks out. Though both Afrikaners and Africans (the former are the Dutch/German settlers and French "Hugenote", known collectively as the "Boere", whereas the latter are the black natives, so don't confuse them) have reason to hate the English (the Boere more than the Africans, actually) and fought against them as allies, they eventually started fighting against each other, and much of that animosity survives to this day. Not everyone from both sides are racist, but there are too many who are, be they white or black.

3. So, taking my race and language into account, they'll most likely think I'm a fellow European. I'll just act naturally. However, if they do take me for a fool, I'll either explode and make my opinion of them resoundingly clear, or I'll sweetly tell them to p*** off in Afrikaans, smiling all the while. I don't take c*** from anyone, much less from some uncivilised boor who has, in all probability, accomplished less than I have. That's not me being self-righteous or vain, that's me stating a fact, just like it's a fact that my English is better than 95% of people I meet.

4. Wow, that rant was refreshing! It was satisfying, but just for clarity, why should I make it clear my English is better than theirs?

5. That missing t was a typo, not an error made in ignorance, but yes, I should remember that. By the way, just do what I do and give an example of an English word in which that sound appears, e.g. an a could be pronounced in many ways, but if I say "as in hay", it can only be interpreted one way.

6. Okay, let's talk about the French r. It is not pronounced the same way as in English, but it is pronounced the same way as the Afrikaans g. The phonetic letter for it is x, and the example provided is usually "loch". (The Scottish will hit you if you mispronounce it as "lock".)

Paris and rue are pronounced with a guttural sound. By that, I mean you make the sound in your throat, not your mouth, which is why Americans, Brits, Australians, etc. hate saying words that contain that sound. I use it everyday, so I'm fine. But is "main droite" pronounced the same way, or does it use the English r?

7. Thanks. At least I got some of them right.

This might sound random, but do you have WhatsApp? It's a mobile communication platform that we predominantly use here in RSA, so if you have it, we can communicate more easily. If not, oh well.

PS: So that's what's keeping you busy, Verser? Mi no habla Español bien. (As you can probably deduce.) I know random words, such as hermano, niña, lamparra, nosotros, sambrilla, caracol, medusa, horno, etc., in addition to numerous swear words. (My brother bought GTA San Andreas a few years ago, okay? He sold it several months later.)
But the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
— Paul the Apostle

Winter is inevitable. Spring will return eventually, and AstralHunter with it.




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@Verser well that was random. but hey, you're here!

@AstralHunter
Spoiler
1. Yeeeeees, I realized it afterwards, nevermind that.
2. Are you giving this information about your language just to inform me? I hope it is (and I don't mind), because what I said up there in that first dash was just a representation of what some of French people's mindsets function. By that I mean that yes, Africaans is certainly not as common as English, French or Portuguese, hence me not knowing much about it, but...
...They don't know that. And they don't care. They'll just assume that it's an African dialect among all those dialects that obviously, all African people are supposed to know, since y'know, all Africa's the same.
↑ This isn't me speaking. I'm repeating what I heard. Several times over. During years.

Lesson 1: I know that. Except for the Afrikaans bit, which is the main thing I'm focusing on. So it IS linked to the Germanic language descendants... Interesting.

As hilarious as that is to me, it's not because of the name that you'll have the "Oh he's speaking an African dialect" reaction, since they won't even recognize it, but anyway. That's still hilarious. let's see what more you can teach me.


Lesson 2: Hmm. The first bit of that history is definitely familiar, sicne that's basically what my ancestors have been through, but the later part is especially fascinating. So now both sides coexist, but there is still a lot of animosity between them. Another really interesting fact, though it's a shame. Hmm.

3.Yeeeees, that's where you're lucky, as I mentioned before - you're not black, so they'll automatically make less assumptions about your language and r...
...I still despise this word and everything it implies. Won't use it. Too stubborn.
Anyway...
Haha, that's the best part! They won't realize they're acting like you're some kind of fool. To them, gesticulating while imporvising/speaking slowly is THE OBVIOUS thing to do to put a stranger at ease!
*sarcasm*
Thank goodness they're not all like this, but yeah, I'm in the same boat. Here in France, my English was better than pretty much everyone I met, UNTIL I went to an international school where French People actually DID speak very good English and cared about its language and culture.
However, most of them had at least one English parent, which made themlearning the language much easier than for me, and um... The thing when I sarcastically said that "Africa was a big, united country"? That... That came from that same international school. In my very class, too

...Yeeeeeeah.

4. It was, wasn't it? :D I know that feeling. Also, you should make it clear that your English is better than theirs to make a difference. A lot of French people, especially when they're in France, tend to belittle any stranger that attempts to speak French. BUT they themselves can't quite speak a foreign language such as English properly.
So... Yeah. It's also easier for you to communicate if you speak English, and you will ALWAYS meet some open-minded people here. One of the many advantages of living in a country where you can believe what you freakin' want and nobody, no law's gonna say anythin' about it.

5. Yes, but... There are quite a few french pronunciations that don't exist in English. Most notably the "r", for instance. But if it's for words, I guess I can find a few, that should be helpful.

6. Let them Scottish hit me then, for I am ignorant. Also, Lock sounds cool, so I'll have to get used to the original pronunciation.
Ok, now listen up, this is very important. The French "r" is used for every single word said in French that contains an "r" in it. Be it droite, Paris, rue, fer, verre, ANYTHING that has an "r" in it is pronounced with the French "R". The English R doesn't exist in French, which by the way is a reason why it sounds so freakin' cool to us. Or maybe it's just me, but... gosh does it sound amazing. Especially in words like "louder", that "r" IS EPIC.
...Anyway sorry.

7.You totally did. That should ALSO help.
"Is there a limit to how much living I can live with my life? How will I know if I've gone too far?
And why did I spend my life savings on sunglasses for a whale?
I shall find the answers... to these questions."




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@Tortwag
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1. XD

2. "Ignorance is bliss" is only true in certain cases. In others, it's rude and frustrating.

2.1. Why will they have that reaction, then? While I've never punched somebody in the face before, I'd happily do it if someone insults my home language.
2.2. It is a shame, yes. The English come and steal our country's gold and diamonds (the Hope Diamond was found here, as well as many of England's crown jewels), and then they are blissfully unaware of the hatred and violence that results in farmers being slaughtered in their homes and beggars being beaten to death on the streets.

3. In my opinion, it's a stupid and inappropriate word. When the word is used in RPGs or fantasy novels/films, it refers to different species that cannot biologically have fertile offspring, such as humans vs goblins vs centaurs vs bipedal cats. But using the term to differentiate between people solely due to the amount of melanin in their dermal epithelial? No.

Africa would have more complicated diplomatic relations than Europe if it hadn't been technologically handicapped from the start.

4. I'll act according to the situation, then, but I'll probably end up speaking English anyway.

5. Just give a French example and I'll look it up.

6. Even in "en garde" and "Orleans" and "Marseilles"?
But the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
— Paul the Apostle

Winter is inevitable. Spring will return eventually, and AstralHunter with it.




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*gets slapped by a Scot*

Wow Hunter, that's the most worked up I've ever seen you, and yet you remain composed and elegant about your words.

*reads part about punching someone in the face*

Ohhhhhh.... ^^;

You probably - no, definitely - know this but it is possible that someone could make an honest mistake about your language. I mean if someone is attacking or belittling it, sure, but some people just don't know. Why am I saying this? I had assumed that it was an African dialect and, not knowing too much a about Africa at all, did indeed assume that much of it was the same. My bad entirely. I hate stereotypes and yet I was just doing it. Anyway, people can make mistakes like that, and shouldn't have to fear for their face, as I do now. ^^;

(Also that sounds like a wicked RPG move. Hunter uses Astral Punch.)

Ooh, main droite et main gauche! There's two I think I can help with. Here in Kanadia, those are pronounced:

Main droite (For main, say man and men and try to find the happy medium. That's main. As for droite, the roi is actually pronounced like "roi", which means King. Never confuse the oi sound "wah" for "oy". So try to say droite like this: Dr-watt. (I think that's right? Tort?)

As for gauche: Go-sh. Easy as that. cx




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The contest is over! I'm back to being here more often.
I'll provide a list of islands around Terraria as soon as I cam @Astralhunter. Just as soon as I post my Zulu training session.




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@Robusto....there's only one more question to ask then


._. did you win?
I have a license that lets me solve aids - A friend of mine


Here Comes the Birdyyyy ~Poopsie


You gotta have the confidence of a gazelle running through a herd of lions - TK Sharp


I was once Numbers

Now I am Soup




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@AstralHunter
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2. Exactly my point.

2.1. because that's the instinctive reaction some of the ignroants I'm talking about apparently seem to have. I'm exactly sure why, but I've seen it enough and during enough years to know what's coming your way when certain circumstances are met.
But - and although I'm sure you're aware of that - I'm still going to insist on the fact that you're also bound to find positive reactions as well, as not all French people are closed-minded/vicious.
2.2. Y'know, you could say that for slavery and its -to-this-day- leftovers in general. But um, yeah. I get what you mean there.

3. Which is exactly why I hate it.

Yeah, I know. It's vast and not as united as many europeans I've seen, met and talked to think it is. You have no idea how many times Momhas to orally destroy StepDad whenever he lets certain words and implications slip.
Heh. Family dinners are fun.

4. Do. Really, it's easier.

5. Right. Welp, Char provided you with a few, so there's that.

6. EVERY. SINGLE. WORD. That has an "r" in it. Use the French "r". Every single one, I tell you. Especially Marseilles, actually. 'cause y'know. French city.


@Charizard821 Yeah but there are ways to react to things, and if you're an ignorant about something, it's not an excuse to react in the way many French people react to strangers/things they don't know about. So they'd still deserve an Astral Punch - I'm keeping the name.
I, too, thought that Afrikaans was some kind of African dialect, but I happened to look it up a few weeks ago and realized that it wasn't. Astral here is pretty much confirming what I read.
^ Few people look up those things, apparently.

Dr-watt. Yup. Flawless. You're way better as a phonetics helper than I am! A+ to you :3
"Is there a limit to how much living I can live with my life? How will I know if I've gone too far?
And why did I spend my life savings on sunglasses for a whale?
I shall find the answers... to these questions."



maybe the backs are the stories we made along the way
— soundofmind