Immigration Scapegoat

We've all heard the news coverage of these 'criminals' invading our country, stealing the jobs we refuse to work and sucking the life out of white-America. Well I say keep 'em coming. We've also heard that immigrants are the 'backbone of our nation' so why, now of all times, is immigration the 'issue' on everyones minds? I thought bringing people together was the important thing. Instead, something like a civil liberties war is brewing and there is no need for it. There are 12 million 'criminals' in a nation of some 140 million. Those numbers don't make me shake in my boots. I'm afraid that in the face of this new enemy I am completely UNAFRAID.

Where is this coming from by the way? I thought the focus was terrorism in Iraq. But don't worry, they have connected the two distractions by the argument that new immigration barriers will help stop terrorists from entering America. Well don't you think Officer Smith will stop Yossier Armchoad when he is crossing the Jericho border into Texas?

"You're awfully far from...where is this...Perklaks..uhm...step out of the car please?"

I'm sorry but I don't buy it.

This seems to be more racially motivated than anything. The Mexican people are among the most hardworking and independent people in the world. I know this first hand after visiting Aquascallientes, Mexico this spring break. There I had the complete experience of Mexican life. I won't get into the great misconceptions of Mexico (although there are many. For instance, the tap water in Mexico is often times better than the tap here. That is the case in my hometown of Edmond, Oklahoma) but it should be said that the people of Mexico are crossing the border with nothing on their mind but taking their hard work ethic to a place of better opportunity. I say let them come, I never have enough friends.

Illegal immigrants actually help lower prices of products. They'll work longer and harder for less money - which is actually one of the reasons why they're disliked.

If America succeeds in kicking out all its illegal immigrants, lots of American's are going to get a shock when lots of the most common items they buy go up in price.

Personally I believe it should be made easy to immigrate, rather than harder. This will allow America to keep track of who's going in and out of the country (one of the main things they're worried about). In fact, I seem to remember reading that this is what Bush would like to do.

Americans could not live the same way without the immigrants. We depend on their low wages so we can profit more like we did with slaves. Mexicans are almost like the backbone of the United States. Keep them coming.

Just because you don't understand the other side does not make them racist or stupid. I favor more immigration and support Bush's guest worker proposal. I also support amnesty under certain conditions (still gotta go through the same process all other immigrants go through). But here's the problem with your argument...

You don't distinguish between illegal and legal immigrants, and it's an important distinction. Most people in the US can trace their immigrant roots back to only two generations ago (for me, on one side, my family has been here for centuries, on the other side, only 60 years, and there's even a little bit of me that has been here for thousands of years; one of my great grandmothers was full blooded native american). Thus, most Americans support immigration, but they do not support those who come here illegally. Moreover, they really do not support those who come here illegally and then demand to have rights. It's like having someone break into your house and then demand to use the shower.

To add to that, the people who are angriest about this are the legal immigrants; after all, it took them years to gain citizenship. Why should someone who hopped a fence get it in one stroke?

A lot of people are also mistaken that those against illegal immigration do so on financial or terrorist grounds. Those are the politicians, like Tancredo and Clinton, doing that. Your average American citizen is worried that being an American will cease to mean anything if we give the illegal immigrants citizenship. Americans see them waving the Mexican flag and chanting the national anthem in spanish. Americans see them worshipping Vincente Fox. Most of all, Americans see them draining money away from our social services, such as social security and education.

But most of all, why now? Five years ago, the United States was in a recession and nobody spoke of illegal immigration. Today, the United States enjoyed 5% growth in the first three months of the year, and yet everyone is talking about illegal immigration. The difference between today and yesterday? The protests. It's turning a lot of people, like my parents, that were either ambivalent or sympathetic to become very anti-illegal immigrant.

Americans are genuinely concerned. To deride someone you don't understand as racist or stupid is bigotry, although I'm not accusing you of that. Just hoping you understand a bit more now. I don't count myself among the Americans asking for deportation or a fence along the border, but I do understand what they're worried about. And who knows, if I didn't live in white-bred, upper middle-class, blue-dog democrat surburbia, I might have a different point of view.

Since this is not in the debate and serious discussion usergroup, I will assume that it is fair game to critique. Fine?

Anyway, I found this to be a rather poor argument. Mind you, I see what you're trying to do, but it really sounds more like a rant than anything.

You are creating an argument by systematically arguing against the other side. Fine. But you have to research more into the other side before you can do that! There are TONS more reasons why they believe in what they do. You take the easiest arguments to shoot down. That's known as the straw-man fallacy. What you're basically doing is creating this weak image of the other side and then tearing it down (quite happily, might I add?). This is not good debating.

You have to honestly portray the other side. Before you can totally dismiss the other side, you have to give them a fair shot of an argument. For instance, check out this sentence:

"I understand the concern they have. After all, terrorists occasionally slip through the borders. Still, there is a statistically insignificant amount of them coming through to deny all immigrants entrance."

First, see how I phrased it. I am not insulting the other side. In fact, insulting should not be part of arguing. It seems like I am fairly looking at their concerns, detailing them for the reader, and then politely arguing against their point. Remember: point and then counterpoint.

The last paragraph is completely out of place. Why? Because you didn't research the other side enough. You took a total of one reason why they were against that, insulted that belief, and then continued on to your conclusion. Nope. Can't do. Before you completely dismiss their argument, you either have to support your position strongly before you come to their point, or systematically refute many of their points and then put your conclusion. See?

So yep. This definitely needs organizing.

So figure out what you want to do. Do you want to refute, point by point, until you come to your powerful conclusion? If so, pick at least three points that the other side has, politely refute them, showing your sources as you go along. Do you want to tell about your experiences in Mexico and then refute the other side? If so, tell us at least three points to support your conclusion, give a paragraph to briefly explain (and then refute) their point.

Basically? Organization is key, research is a must, and politeness is needed.

This is not some article that has been edited and refined to fit newspapers. In fact, I spent four minutes, coffee and a cigarette on this one. I am not here to argue with you, just to throw my point out there. It has to be made clear that I don't have any grudge against the republicans, except everything about them pisses me off. It seems to be another problem that Bush will leave without a resolution. What has bush done? And what good could come from this "IMMIGRATION OUTRAGE!" yeah, it's a complete travesty.

Look, I have to go, you guys are great but I'm not going to be dragged into 'The Vocabulary and Sentence Fragment Debate Grand Challenge 2006.'

You'll hear from me soon.
-Colier

But... I didn't critique the vocabulary and sentence fragment aspect...?

*is confused*

Colier wrote:This is not some article that has been edited and refined to fit newspapers. In fact, I spent four minutes, coffee and a cigarette on this one. I am not here to argue with you, just to throw my point out there. It has to be made clear that I don't have any grudge against the republicans, except everything about them pisses me off. It seems to be another problem that Bush will leave without a resolution. What has bush done? And what good could come from this "IMMIGRATION OUTRAGE!" yeah, it's a complete travesty.

Look, I have to go, you guys are great but I'm not going to be dragged into 'The Vocabulary and Sentence Fragment Debate Grand Challenge 2006.'

You'll hear from me soon.
-Colier

Colier, this is a writing site and you posted in the non-fiction section. If you were not looking for a critique, then you should have posted somewhere else, such as The Lounge or even another site. Reacting to criticism in this manner does not befit someone who claims to be 19 years old. If you wish to react badly, that is your choice, but it's not a good choice.

Why would I pretend to be 19? Am I supposed to be younger?

Well, these articles are more like little blogs. I'll probably post one every day. What I am concerned about is my poetry and fiction, those are things things that I want the most feedback on. I'll be putting new things up tonight or tommorow.

You seem to have taken an awfully long time to prove a point about something forum-webmaster-guy. I'll be more considerate of other people's cynicism.

When you put a piece up on Nonfiction, you're inviting critiques. ^_^

Instead of posting them here, why not create a blog? YWS allows every one of its users to create a blog. All you have to do is click a link that's located on the main page, and it's done for you! Therefore, you won't get annoying critiques about argument structure, but you can still write these little tidbits.

Anyway, welcome to YWS!

I'm sortof confused as to whether or not we are allowed to debate about this since its in the nonfiction section, but I'll just put in a couple words.

First of all, Snoink is exactly right. I read your other Bush-bashing post, and while I respect your opinion I believe that you will convince nobody to switch over to your way of thinking when you do not write a proper argument. And while this may not be for a newspaper, you still should try to be as persuasive as possible. Snoink pretty much explained how to do this perfectly. Doing this will help you to become a better writer, and then if anyone ever challenges your opinion on such a subject, you will have plenty of good arguments to back it up.

And I have a friend who thinks that illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from hard working Americans. I agree with you, however, that the jobs taken away are not ones which most Americans would work at anyways. They are very low paying and not exactly exciting. My friend says "then why are there so many unemployed Americans when all of these illegals have jobs?"

Well, we americans are selfish, greedy, little bastards. We don't want to work for minimum wage, and I'll give you an example. This same friend has a dad who used to work at Northwest Airlines as a mechanic. His dad went on strike with the other workers because they weren't getting paid enough (although it was much more than minimum wage I bet). They all lost there jobs. See what I mean?

The jobs aren't being "taken" but rather "filled." Most people born in the US would turn their noses up at working at a minimum wage yet out good friends the illegal mexicans would love it. our minimum wage is a good salary in their minds compared to the work back in Mexico.

I have also been to Mexico, and I have seen people making thousands of bricks by hand iunder the hot sun. I have seen the beggers, drunks, and poor women who sell handmade dolls and other items to tourists. And we buy them too because we feel horrible that we are rich while they are starving.

There is one slight problem here. That is that illegal immigrants are, well, quite obviously ILLEGAL. So while I think that they should be allowed in, I also think it should be done in a legal manner. And I definitely think that terrorists crossing the border is a real threat. Why should they go through the legal hassle of getting a terrorist in the country when they could do it illegally? Anyone remember a little thing we like to call 9/11? Terrorism isn't a damn joke.

IceCreamMan wrote:I'm sortof confused as to whether or not we are allowed to debate about this since its in the nonfiction section, but I'll just put in a couple words.

Just to clear things up for future reference, debate is allowed in the non-fiction forum. However, what is posted in the non-fiction should be an actual essay or article. Depending on where this goes (if anywhere), it may be moved to the debate forum or to "In The News."

Colier wrote:Why would I pretend to be 19? Am I supposed to be younger?

Well, these articles are more like little blogs. I'll probably post one every day. What I am concerned about is my poetry and fiction, those are things things that I want the most feedback on. I'll be putting new things up tonight or tommorow.

You seem to have taken an awfully long time to prove a point about something forum-webmaster-guy. I'll be more considerate of other people's cynicism.

Didn't see this earlier, but...

If you treat the non-fiction forum like a personal blog, then your posts will be deleted. The non-fiction forum is not a blog. If you want a blog, then create one. It's in the general menu on the home page. Again, the non-fiction forum is for essays, articles, or true stories. Not for blog-like posts.

You should join the Debate group (go to Join A Usergroup in the general menu). It's been a bit quiet there lately, and you can definitely post something like this every day in the debate forum.