Many good writers seem to get ignored

Let's take a look at some hard numbers.

Using: WritingForums.org

Only 92,107 of their total of 689,475 (13% of their posts) are in the literary forums.
They have 12,607 threads in their literary forums vs (92,107-12,607) = 79,500 comments, which comes out to 6.3 literary comments per piece.

By comparison, YWS has 816336 posts, 302,986 of which (37%, nearly TRIPLE that of writingforums.org) are in the literary forums. We have 47,384 threads vs (302,986-47,384) = 255,602, which comes out to 5.3 literary comments per piece. We only average one less review per piece, with more than 3.75 times the number of threads to go through.

And the kicker throughout all this? They have more than twice the number of members we do (26,718 vs. 17,168). Our members post more, review more, and are overall more active, especially in the literary forums.

A Caveat: this is only a comparison between YWS and one other writing website. I have no idea the statistics for the other sites you've listed, but would be glad to do the leg work to see what they come out to be, if you would give me the links of those sites. Also, I'm no master statistician, so if you see anything wrong with my logic, let me know. I used a combination of the total posts/threads information found on YWS and Writing Forums pages, as well as manual calculations to determine total number of posts and threads in literary forums.

--D

PS:If you go to the homepage, you'll see a few "Featured Works"--works that have garnered the most "Likes" in a three day span.

Let's take a look at some hard numbers.

My numbers are 'hard'.

Also, I'm no master statistician, so if you see anything wrong with my logic, let me know.

Ok,
You also ignore Time in two ways
=Firstly, Your data has no time attached, I doesn't reflect current or past conditions, making it invalid for the intended use.
=Secoundly, You have not told how long it took to gain those 'literary comments'

Also 'literary comments' are not the same as reviews, it includes every comment left on a story, review or not, helpful or not. (I had to open every thread I survived to filter that, in some cases in can double the number of comments, but with things like 'thanks for the review', that can be obviously discounted)

When I ran the numbers on the most recent writings on this site using your method (and personally collected data), I got 4.44 comments on average, my previous experience shows we can discount on average 1.5 comments per store, leaving an average of 2.94 reviews per piece.

Using an identical method on 'Writing forums' I got 11.74 (rounded to 2 decimal places) comments on average with the average non-review comments (adjusted to be proportional and specific to the site) I got an average of 8.49 (again rounded) reviews per piece.

These numbers are more accurate than the ones you produced, because I used only the most recent posts to show current conditions. They are not particularly helpful, because unlike my initial data they ignore the time it took to gain those reviews, a flaw your analysis shares.

Hey guys, this is totally not a debate. While I understand you're talking on topic and it's all rather civil,the discussion feels as though it's taking a more edged tone. So! I think that you could continue this in PM if you wanted to, leaving the thread more open to further comments.

Thanks, guys!

xD This entire "debate" is hilarious. Who cares if YWS has more or less reviews than any other website. You're here to write and review and the time wasted arguing which writing website has more active members could have been spent doing either.

[quote]Who cares if YWS has more or less reviews than any other website.[qoute/]
I do, and so does everyone on the '0 reviews' list.

Further defending my stated thoughts is not a "waste of time".

~Cthulhu out.

Well, then. As other people have said, ask for reviews. I have a bunch of works with 0 reviews but I just ask people kindly to review them and most of the time they do.

Well, then. As other people have said, ask for reviews.

I've never gotten a helpful review doing that.

Cthulhu wrote:

Well, then. As other people have said, ask for reviews.

I've never gotten a helpful review doing that.

If you request in the WRFF forum, you can ask that certain areas be focused on in the reviews they give to you.

Another good thing to do before you request a review from someone is to check their reviewing history. You can view their past reviews by going to their profile and visiting the Lit. Comments tab. Near the top, there will be a link "View Literary Comments by X". Hit that, and you'll get a list of linked reviews with previews.

It's usually a good idea to check up on a person's previous reviews since different people have different reviewing styles, some of which you might not like.

Though to be honest, after skimming the reviews you've received from requesting, I don't see why you're complaining. You've received a number of good and detailed reviews. If their reviewing style wasn't to your taste, that's one thing, and if they didn't address certain things you would have liked been addressed, that's another, but to claim that you've never gotten any helpful reviews from requesting is ridiculous, to put it bluntly.

Lol come on guys, at this point this thread has become a ploy to simply be as antagonistic as possible.

If they truly think that the reviewing on this site is lacking, and they refuse to use the WRFF thread, then there isn't a whole lot that we can do to change their minds

I say let it go, and let them feel however they choose to. They clearly aren't going to change their minds.

... But you've had a review from Azila... Wow, you must have some high expectations. >.<

But yeah, you're entitled to your own opinion, so hey, I'm not going to bother debating or arguing about it. All I will say is that when it comes to communities, the internet is just the same as real life. The 'better known' you are, the more people are going to, well, notice you, I guess. In this case, more people are going to review and comment on your writing. I mean, that's just how us humans work. As harsh as it sounds, that's just reality. If you review lots, you're going to be noticed lots, so the whole 'you review others and they'll review you thing is true'. I've experienced it myself.

In general though, yeah, I agree with OverEasy.

While I agree with the majority that say that YWS is 'generally' good with their member reviews, you have to admit there are a lot of incentives for members to review; such as the contests, the points, and of course the constantly urging by all of those 'higher ups.' Regardless of this state though, that's how this forum works, and from my personal experience it seems better than most. There is not some status loop you need you need to throttle through in order for your work to be read. Then again, in real life there is. Contrary to popular belief, writing is not just about "talent." In essence, wanting to become a novelist or widely published artist of any sort is about "gambling." How many query letters do you think get glossed through each year? How many masterpiece stories are still sitting on their authors hard drives never to be read by another soul? Unfortunately the answers to these probably outrank those even in syndication, which when you think about it is a sad point and yet one which we, as writers, must contend with if we hope to have our name in print one day.

Cthulhu wrote:

Well, then. As other people have said, ask for reviews.

I've never gotten a helpful review doing that.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a PM from a mod for saying this, but frankly, if you are spending all this time dissing YWS and it's reviewers and praising these other sites, then why are you here? You obviously seem much happier with those other forums. You have gotten excellent reviews and if that's not up to your standards then I'm afraid YWS and it's members can't really help you.

... But you've had a review from Azila... Wow, you must have some high expectations.

Azilas review wasn't helpful because I had already heard what she pointed out, and as she says she's outside my target audience, and their for resulted in no changes (which is my watermark for helpfulness.)
That is not her fault or due to poor reviewing skills on her part, it's a result of me gathering feedback through many sources [very few of which are online]

You've received a number of good and detailed reviews.

In your opinion, not mine. Further I said Helpful and none of the reviews helped me, at all, that is not an opinion.

Have you ever considered that maybe your work is so tremendously amazing that it leaves readers speechless?

Further I said Helpful and none of the reviews helped me, at all, that is not an opinion.

On the contrary, it is. But that's not the main issue here.

The main issue is that you're claiming that the reviews on this site are not helpful because they already say things you've already been told. To which I ask 1) why are you complaining about the quality of feedback on this site when you have no apparent shortage of sources elsewhere, and 2) why haven't you specified what feedback you would like?

Reviewers are not mind readers. You have to specify which areas you want them to focus (or not) on if you're looking for something specific.

In any case, you have to realize that just because you've been told the same thing/something similar before does not make the feedback unhelpful or irrelevant. The same point can be brought up in different ways, with different emphases on the effects, and oftentimes quantity can contribute a dimension to the feedback you receive.

For instance, one person could really hate a story element while another absolutely adores it. Or perhaps there's an element bugging one reader, but they can't quite pinpoint the reason. In those cases, getting more feedback will clarify matters as you'll likely see a trend form. This trend is also useful to confirm that you are doing something right/wrong. If multiple people comment on how much they like something, then odds are you're doing something right.

You also have to realize that by labeling all your reviews as "unhelpful", you've essentially slapped your reviewers in the face. Each of them took time out of their day to read your work and leave you some feedback; even if you don't think you got anything from their reviews, at the least you should be grateful that they took the time to try and help, especially if they've left you a detailed and in-depth review.

By complaining about the reviews you've received, you've pretty much ensured that you will not be getting quality reviews as no one wants to spend all that time writing a review for someone who will not appreciate it.