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Young Writers Society



Chapter Two: Counsel

by Shady


I appreciate all the help I got with this piece. The new and improved version can be found here: http://www.youngwriterssociety.com/work.php?id=99316

~Shady 8)


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158 Reviews


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Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:05 am
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Payne wrote a review...



Hey there! Definitely enjoying the story so far.

To begin with the critiques. I tried to cover the points not already mentioned by Twit and Dude.

This is just personal preference, but it seems a little odd for her father to say 'why the heck were you in town?' Considering the fact that this is a medieval setting, you might consider changing it to something a little more forceful and old-fashioned. It just sounds too childish for an angry grown man to say.

Also, I'm unclear on the situation of the father...just how disabled is he? In the first chapter it's said that he can't feel his legs. To me, that speaks of full-scale paralysis, but he seems able to get around by himself. It's just a little confusing.
Also. He keeps saying during dinner that 'they' have a lot to do tomorrow, and 'they' will be helping the boys tomorrow. Imagining him with little or no movement, this seems like an oddly rude way to phrase it. (Then again, I have a peeve about people saying 'we' when they really mean 'you.' Personal preference, feel free to ignore.)

It does seem unusual for him to go ballistic like that, though. If she's been trustworthy all her life, and probably looks disturbed to a certain extent, I'd think he would be a little more understanding. Especially if the Mataka soldiers have a habit of harassing villagers.

I'm with some of the previous reviewers on this one...the culture is really starting to intrigue me. I was envisioning a rural country-ish place, and now there are panthers to worry about? I'd definitely like to learn more about this world.

Also, the goat-pen...male goats are actually called bucks, not rams. Rams are male sheep. Some people might not notice it, but it caught my attention right away. Also, when she was with the gelding, why did she test the depth of his water bucket in order to decide whether he'd had enough oats?


Other than those things, this is a pretty good chapter. I sense something big is a-brewing with the locals, perhaps...




Shady says...


Hey Payne!
Thanks so much for the review!
I will edit, for sure, but for the questions you stated, I'll give brief answers. Father is completely paraylzed, from the waist down- but he's got a crude wheel chair and he's really strong in his arms, so he has *very* limited freedom. As a result, when he was talking about 'them' doing things, he really meant 'her', as you pointed out. :)

I will definitely smooth out the bit about him getting so angry- it's just something my parents would do. They claim to trust you completely, then you come in half an hour later than you said, and bam! You're an awful, wicked child...I hadn't really thought about it not being common, but, now that I've re-read it, I completely agree with you.

Remind me about the panther next time we meet on chat, please- that's all I'm going into here.

*face palm* Oh dear. It's embarrassing to get a detail like that wrong...the farm kid in me is laughing at the writer in me. :P

Again, thanks

~Shady



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Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:52 pm
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Twit wrote a review...



Hi Vyper! :D


Father was gripping the arms of his chair so tightly his knuckles were turning white; I couldn’t tell if he was more scared or angry with me.

It’s nitpicky, but I’d change the semi-colon to a full stop to make these separate sentences. That way they have more oomph.


“Enough Tasia!” he snapped. “I thought I could trust you, but I guess not. You are just a child who needs to be watched.”

I’m not sure why he’s suddenly angry? He seemed very nice in the first chapter.


Tears rolled down my cheeks and dripped off my chin, quickly turning my shirt damp.

I’ve cried and seen crying, but never seen tears actually make the crier’s shirt dramatically damp. A stray tear might fall, but not enough to turn the shirt actually damp.


Father turned his back on me; my throat was tight and burning. I could hardly believe what was happening; Father had never been this disbelieving before.

Technically there’s nothing wrong with these semi-colons, but I think it would be more effective if you used something else. Like Father turned his back on me. My throat was tight and burning. I could hardly believe what was happening; Father had never been this disbelieving before If a sentence fragment holds something important, like Tasia’s reaction to her father, then it should go in its own sentence so it stands out more. You use a lot of semi-colons, and although mostly you do use them correctly, putting something in its own sentence could be better. More punchy, yo.


We both knew that it was a rare gift to be able to read, our family being the only literate one in the entire Sector; but I still found it amusing that me, a ten year old little girl, could read, when grown men couldn’t. I never teased our neighbors about it, I liked them, but I had no problem making fun of our dictator and his pathetic crowd.

This section feels rather too mature. Like, drawing attention to Tasia’s youth isn’t something that young would necessarily do; the amusement feels like an adult’s appreciation of the irony.


I folded my hands as Father began to pray.

“Father, please bless this food that you have provided for us. Thank you for giving Tasia a strong body that she’s blessed me with by supplying the energy needed to grow our food. Please protect Kyan, wherever he is tonight; and give protect us all tonight. In Jesus’ name we pray, amen.”

And now I’m very intrigued about this setting. ^_^


“Mine too, Ana,” Father said, “But if we don’t eat, then we won’t be worth anything when it comes time to help the boys. We’ve got to keep our strength up.”

Missed name change?

———
Hai!

I had to have a skimming reread of Chapter One to refresh my memory, but this was a good continuation of the action from last time. The main things here that I think could be done better were the emotions and semi-colons. Both Tasia and her father’s reactions seem a bit unnecessary. She’s a bit late and he blows his top and she thinks she’s completely lost his trust. But everyone screws up and he should know that, even if she doesn’t. It’s not very fair for him to be so strict, and there wasn’t any previous indication that he was strict like this. Unless I need to go back and do a proper reread of Chapter One cause I missed something important.

Also semi-colons. Sentences are like line breaks in poetry—if something is on its own line in a poem it makes it stand out so we notice it more. Putting one thing in its own sentence is like putting it on a fresh line break in a poem. It makes it important, like “this thing deserves its own seat, notice it and pay attention”. So semi-colons are cool and all, but using different sentences can really help manipulate your prose into something special and add a deeper meaning. Also using lots of different types and lengths of sentence just makes reading it a whole lot more interesting. ^_^

PM or Wall if you have any questions!

-twit




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Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:29 am
DudeMcGuy wrote a review...



Hi Shadow,

Alright, so I will focus mostly on dialogue since that is what you're looking for help with. Just know that I sometimes write awkward dialogue myself, but it doesn't seem awkward until someone point's it out to me! I'll do my best to help though.

OK so starting off, I know this scene is a direct continuation of what just happened in Chapter 1, but I don't think that {“I’ve been in town Father, one of-“} is a strong enough line to begin the chapter.

Try adding maybe just a single line of exposition that connects to the "Where have you been?", but also allows the scene to start fresh.

Something like... {I ran into my father's arms, who was relieved to see me, but angry all the same} or something else similar. The dialogue section that follows could also use just a bit more description of the characters actions as the speak to each other.

"He demanded angrily"~ Not sure about this tag. "demanded" implies orders or commands to me. Maybe "asked" would work better here. Also, remember that this and the dialogue is all one sentence, so don't capitalize "he".

“One of Makata’s soldiers kidnapped me.” ~ "kidnapped" doesn't seem like something she would say about something that happened to herself, since the word "kidnapped" has a negative/embarrassing connotation to it. Maybe just try "took me away." instead of "kidnapped me."

“Oh, and I suppose he just turned you free to come home?” ~ This is good, but I would add a "?" ofter "Oh" and start the next sentence with "And".

"Mr. Myrond" ~ Typo. His name is "Myron" right?

{“I don’t know what’s gotten into you tonight, but you need to get it out,” Father said harshly.} ~ I think you could drop the "harshly" if you put in some actions to "show" the harshness here. Also, if you have him call her by name (or even full name) here it gives off a sort of "sternness" between father and daughter I think.

{He held me arms length away and frowned as he glared at me. "I don't know what's gotten into you tonight Tasia, but I've heard enough of it."

{I gasped, surprised and scared at Father’s sharp reply; he never spoke meanly with me.
“But- but- there’s nothing ‘in me’. I’m telling the truth.”} ~ this should all be together without a space separating it, since it is all Tasia's POV and dialogue. Also, consider putting 'in me' in italics instead of single quotes for the emphasis. Because quotes within quotes can get confusing. But I'm not sure which is officially "correct".

“Quit it Tasia!" ~ add a bit more life to this. {"Enough Tasia!" he snapped. "I thought I could trust...} Just a suggestion here.

"Big tears" ~ I'm pretty sure just "tears" would do here. Tears pretty much come in the same size right? :)

"Father turned his back on me; my throat was tight and burning." ~ I don't think the semi-colon is strong enough to connect these two actions, but I could be wrong. Not sure how else you would convey this either, sorry. It just doesn't "feel" correct as it is now.

"“I didn’t mean to be so sharp with you... ~ Change "so sharp" to either "cross" or "harsh" (assuming you nixed the "harshly" earlier.)

“…I haven’t. I have never given you a reason to distrust me… but you do.”

I crawled out of his arms and roughly wiped my eyes. I was too old to be crying because somebody hurt my feelings, even if that somebody was very dear to me." ~ Same as before, Tasia is the one speaking and acting here, so the actions should follow the dialogue without the extra line of space. Also, you don't need "roughly". I would cut it as it doesn't really enhance/modify the "wiped" in the sentence.

“Huh? How about that?"~ This time you want "Huh, how about that?" because the "?" after "Huh" makes him sound confused instead of joking/playful. :)

{I grinned back at him.} ~ maybe use "smiled" since you just used "grin" in the previous line. For variety's sake I guess.

“Uh, well, I-“I didn’t want to tell him about soldier being rough with me.}~ You need a space between the quotes and the second "I" otherwise it looks like she actually said "I didn't want to tell..."

“What was the letter about?” ~ Tasia just said "the letter", so it would feel more natural if he responded with "What did it say?" or something without repeating "the letter".

"... when Myrond asked him." ~ hmm. maybe you did change his name to "Myrond".


“Then what happened?”

“Well, then what happened?” ~ the second line should be cut.

The rest of the dialogue is good and pretty straightforward as far as I can tell.

{...and only a millimeter of extra bread on his half of the loaf.} ~ "millimeter" is too awkward here (especially in a middle-ages/fantasy setting). "Slivers of cheese" was good, but you need something similar for the bread example. Just not "millimeters" or any other real-life measurement. (inches, centimeters, grams, etc.)

Also, as a side note, I would be interested in hearing what the father prayed before they ate. I think it would be interesting for you to expand on the religious aspect of the story. Just mentioning "he prayed" followed by "once the prayer was over..." felt like a big tease to me since I'm trying to fully jump into in the character's world/mindset.

OK, so his name is "Myrond" now. Ignore what I said before. I find it a little odd that he walks around with a butcher knife everywhere he goes though.

“Yes sir, he’s in the house…here, come on in.” ~ Suggestion for a more natural flow: “Yes sir, he’s in the house…please, come in.”

“You don’t need to put on a show for me.” ~ maybe this is just me, but this line from Myrond to Talia's father came off as a little rude/mean. Maybe "Please don't strain yourself." or something else would be better?

“Oh, they do not.” ~ This is contradictory. The "Oh", is like "your right Talia" and the rest is like "your wrong Talia".

{I sighed. I couldn’t argue with an adult, it would be disrespectful; and the last thing I wanted was to disrespect Myrond. Father took a puff from his pipe and laughed, breaking the silence that settled in around us.

“Well judge or not, will you continue your tale?”} ~ the part starting with "Father..." should be together with his dialogue.


{I slipped once more into the cold night air, and silently padded across the yard. I pulled open the squeaky wooden door on the barn, and walked inside; I was greeted by the sweet aroma of hay that always ruled the barn, and a gentle nicker from our old gelding Bo.} ~ I like this part. Very nice and descriptive. :) I'm not really getting a feel for the lighting though, and I think that is important in a night/dark scene. Is all the light coming from the moon and stars?

{Please Lord, keep Kyan safe.} ~ good ending, but it leaves me wondering... Is her brother's name Naekyan or Kyan? She refers to him earlier in her thoughts as Naekyan, but at the end as Kyan. I prefer the second honestly.

-----
OK Shadow, I thought this was a good continuation of the story. Two thumbs up :) .

The most interesting thing character-wise that jumped out at me is how Tasia is very young, but has a lot of responsibility on her shoulders. I would try to expand on that aspect even more if you could. Describe a little more how she feels about doing "grown-up" things, but not being included in the "grown-up" conversations. Most children would probably be bitter, others would not. You could tell us a lot about Tasia by expanding on this a bit more I think.

The dialogue itself is mostly fine I think, it's the flow that could use improvement. The tricky part is to use actions with the dialogue so that they both enhance each other. I could tell that there were a few parts in the 3-person conversation where you were just adding tags and actions to show who was speaking, but those tags didn't really enhance or add to the scene.

Example: {“…How were the animals?” Father asked.

“Fine,” I replied.

“Okay, thank you for checking.”

“No problem,” I replied, mustering up a sweet smile.

Myrond stood, “In case we should need it. I’ll be ready.”

Father nodded, “Thank you for coming by, Myrond.”

Myrond nodded in acknowledgement, “Bye Tasia.”

“Bye Mr. Myrond,” I replied, as I opened the door for him.}

You have a tag for every line of dialogue except for "OKay, thank you..." in this part. Some are unnecessary and make reading it a bit choppy. (Such as the first and last "I replied" and "Myron nodded in acknowledgement". Just put "Myron said" instead)

Don't get me wrong, it is necessary to use dialogue tags to indicate the speaker. But if those tags themselves are not adding to the mood or dialogue of the character, then just remove them or use "said" and "asked".

"Said" and "Asked" are considered by many to be sort of "invisible tags" for dialogues. For whatever reason, readers just pass over them and only see the speech. I only learned this about a month or so ago. So don't feel bad for not knowing :) .

Example #2
{“I need to talk to your Pap about this,” Myrond said, as he pulled the letter out of his pocket, “Is he home?"}

Just to quickly reienfocre what I just wrote above, look at Myrond's dialogue here. Whether you read it out loud or silently the "said" almost magically disappears, but it still does it's job in telling us who is speaking. (There should be a period after "pocket" instead of a comma btw)

Talia responds with this:
{I thought it a strange question, since Father was always home, but merely replied, “Yes sir, he’s in the house…here, come on in.”}

You can/should cut the ",but merely replied". It doesn't add to the dialogue that follows and we already know that it is Talia who is speaking without it. So it simply clutters things up. Read the sentence with and without it and you will see what I mean.

Now I'm not saying you should only use "said" and "asked". Just try to recognize that they are usually the best option for normal, non-emphasized speech. (Because they're invisible to the reader, which helps make the dialogue stand out more on it's own)

Example #3
{“Eat up Tasia; we’ve got a lot to do tomorrow,” Father ordered, as he took a bite of his bread.

“My stomach’s upset,” I complained, as I pushed the block of cheese around on the plate.

“Mine too, Ana,” Father said, “But if we don’t eat, then we won’t be worth anything when it comes time to help the boys. We’ve got to keep our strength up.”

“Yes sir,” I grumbled, as I stared at the food on my plate, suddenly glad that there wasn’t very much there.}

Also, try to separate actions from the dialogue a bit more. You can use these actions to establish the "camera" on a character (so to speak) and then write the dialogue without any tags. Because the reader already knows who is speaking. Basically if there is no tag, then the person speaking is the last one mentioned as preforming an action. (Unless there is a new paragraph that starts with dialogue)

So, taking a look at the 4 sentences above during the dinner conversation. I'll try to re-write them and show what I mean.

{Father took a small bite of his bread. "Eat up Tasia. We've got a lot to do tomorrow."} ~Listing the action first established the speaker to follow, which allowed me to nix the sort of intrusive "ordered".

{I pushed the block of cheese from one side of the plate to the other, sighing as I held my chin up with my other hand. "My stomach's upset."} ~ OK, so I struggled with this one a bit. Don't edit it word for word with this. The idea though is to once again establish the speaker through action first, but at the same time use that action to "show" the word "complained" without actually writing "complained". I hope that made sense!

Now look at the third sentence.... It's perfect! You could change "Father" to "he" if you wanted, but it serves it's purpose either way. Notice how the "said" is completely invisible here.

Last sentence: {“Yes sir,” I grumbled as I stared at the food on my plate, suddenly glad that there wasn’t very much there.} ~ This is all fine. I just cut an unnecessary comma after "grumbled". Now notice that "grumbled" enhances "Yes sir", so it is good to use it instead of "said" in this case.

Now I think this is the biggest challenge of writing dialogue in general. There is a difficult balance of trying to find out when to enhance it with tags and adjectives/adverbs, and when it should just be allowed to stand on it's own.

Too many modifiers will clutter it up and make the speaker's voice get lost in the shuffle. And too little will make it feel flat sometimes. It's a tough prospect for sure.

----
That's my advice for you Shadow. I'm not trying to come off as mean. I really do like the story. I'm just trying to help in anyway I can. As for the overall chapter I would say the story is good. This is a nice "come down" chapter after all the violence/tense atmosphere in the first. It's still tense here, but more of an uncertainty feel instead of an immediate threat (the soldier and his actions in Ch.1). Both chapters are good and have both served their purpose well.

Keep up the good work! Happy to help anytime!





pain is that feeling when you are feeling hurt, but it never goes away leaving me hurt. oh it hurts.
— Dragonthorn