Young Writers Society

I agree, generally the short stories are of a higher quality, probably because they'r edited. However, there are some good novels I've read here. It does take a good one for me to say I'll stay with it, so the novelists out there have their work cut out for them.

I have a few short stories I've finished, but either I can't find them (I wrote them on paper) or I think they are bad. And the reason you see so many Chapter 1 & 2, and almost no novels completed is that no one reviews them after the first few chapter
If you look, you'll see Chapter 1 of a story getting 4-6 posts, than Chapter 2 getting 1-3 posts, then less and less. It's probably because people either don't want to read all the chapters before it, or they don't want to look for them.
For example, if you see a post saying "Knights of God (Chp. 17)" and "Knights of Heaven (Chp 1)", you'll probably go for the second one. This discourages the first guy, because no one is reading their work, and so he/she stops the novel and move onto something new.

But I guess I got off-topic, because your saying how we need more short stories. Which I think is a reasonable request. I'll post one I've had in the burner for a while next time I get to it. I think short stories are harder for me because I like adventure, which is hard to do in just a short amount of space.

Wario ->> Given the choice between reading a complete story that you can finish in one sitting, the beginning of a story, or part 17 of 30 of a story, which do you think people are the least likely to read? No one here has ample time, and so we're just trying to do the best we can with the time we got.

Nate wrote:Wario ->> Given the choice between reading a complete story that you can finish in one sitting, the beginning of a story, or part 17 of 30 of a story, which do you think people are the least likely to read? No one here has ample time, and so we're just trying to do the best we can with the time we got.

Right, that's what I was saying. Sorry if it seemed like I was yelling at anybody (probably shouldn't have used all caps...). I was just trying to explain why there is so many chapters 1 and 2 on most writers forums.

Still, if you only post chapter 1, people can often tell you a lot about your whoe story. They can tell you if your pacing, dialogue and style are good, or if your characters are lively or flat. Often a small excerpt is all you want or need critiqued to point out your weaknesses. Beyond that chances are most of the advice will be repeated anyway. There's always the advanced critiques forum for people who are serious enough to have finished the entire novel.

Have you ever actually tried to follow a novel? I have, repeatedly. They are the longest reviews to do no mater how short a segment gets posted. As you read deeper into the novel, you're commenting not just on the content and mechanics of one segment, but how this latest segment ties into the old segments and where you can see the plot headed, if there is a direction at all. Then there is nuances of character that can only be captured in novels but you have to keep those nuances straight in your head, and sometimes weeks go between postings. You also have to know a lot about the craft of writing itself; most notably you have to know about how to build a character and plots. Also, I haven't met a novelest who leaves a review as-is if you're following their work. They'll pick your review apart and ask for greater detail on just about everything. That's really expected, since you can't talk about every single nuance in your review.

The above about reviews applies to the author, as well. You have to know a lot to write a novel, and if you start with one your progress will be much slower. I could read fiction, about writing, rewrite, as much as I wanted, but the differences I have between early drafts isn't huge. Once I started reviewing short stories on YWS, and writing a handful, there is a drastic difference between drafts. I learned what worked and what didn't in a much shorter space, one that gave instant results. These results you can apply straight away to your longer works, without the huge commitment and slow improvement rate of a novel.

I agree, short stories are a much better place to start than novels, and I wouldn't advise someone to attempt a novel unless they'd proven their skill with a couple of gripping short stories first. However, I think you can't practice everything in short stories. Subplots for example have no place in a short work, but are essential in novels. How can a writer practice working subplots in and around a main plot in a harmonius way without practicing writing novels?

Anyway, as to your question, yes, but as a mutual agreement. It just so happened someone else had posted a chapter 1 around the same time I did so I PMd them asking if they'd follow my novel if I followed his. It worked out well. I think following novels can work, if the author is proactive in seeking reviews. I wouldn't follow any old novel (unless I really liked it), the way I might do a short story review on a whim. However, if the author asked me or made a review exchange offer, I'd be happy to help.

But yes, in general I don't follow novels.

You know, I admittedly have very little ease writing a short story, because I tend to write ideas that need more expanding than say...ten or so pages like a short story. But I have to admit, this thread has inspired me. I'm gonna write a short story here, tonight, and post it sometime later this week.

PM me when you get it up. I've sentenced myself to doing 3 critiques a week, so your story can be one of them.

I don't like short stories, but I love full-length stories. On YWS I find myself only really reviewing the first couple of chapters to each story. I can't read a short-story and come off it satisfied unless it's been written acceptionally well.

I wouldn't really miss short stories if they did die...

Like Krupp, I did end up writing a short story, and it was fun, and I might just do it again. Looks like you've got a convert Nate.

I love writing short stories.

And I hate saying this, but I never read short stories. That's maybe why I aim for novels, even though I stink at writing them. I never hear anyone talking about short stories, only books.

So that's my reason for trying to write novels, though I do write short stories, too.

I don't think the short story is necessarily DEAD, but I do think it could be falling in popularity. There will always be short stories as long as there are writers, but a lot of writers are seeking some kind of payment for their creativity.

Hence, they turn to novels and they don't really focus on the "collection of short stories" thing, because honestly, who reads those? And there are not many publishers who would want to publish them. You can certainly look.

I think that the closest thing that's coming to a popular short story book are anthologies. Because they encompass different writers, different voices all in shorts.

Conclusion: Novels are more popular, but short stories are still thriving.

BenFranks wrote:I wouldn't really miss short stories if they did die...

Sad Face

Short Stories cry my name because I love cutting to the chase. I feel like when you write a novel you spend soooo much time building up. I can't stand that at all. When I'm working on a short story I usually have a message to send to the reader, and the more pages that are set before me means the longer it takes for me to convey that message. Plus writing short stories is fun for me because I can easily switch topics by creating new stories and not feel tied to a novel I might find out I hate writing while halfway through that novel.

Rawr! That is my rant on short stories....

Believe me, I wish I could like short stories (either writing or reading them). But they always seem so contrived and pointless to me. So I actually hope that the short story is dead, if only so that the form can get an overhaul and come back as something bigger and better than ever.

Then again, that might be another 'blame the novel focus' thing: I know how pacing should work in a novel. Not so much in a short story. And that's where it always seems to fall apart. When I have attempted to write a short story, I also feel more like I'm writing a summary of what happened, rather than focusing on the detail (and I really loathe that approach), so I suppose for myself at least I should add a concern about scope into the mix.

Also, when I think of short stories, I think of fan fiction. My favorites are one-shot fanfictions between 5,000 and 10,000 words, the rough equivalent of a short story. But the thing is that fan fiction is digestible for me because it's got pre-established characters to work with. If I had to spend half of that time reading about backstory and character development (however sparse and suited to the short story form) that wasn't confirmed with an understanding that I already had from the book/movie/show, etc., my attention would be out the window because I would only see plot devices with no payoff of a resolution at the end, other than a "Great! Now you know all about the characters! See you next year!" regardless of the story.

In this way, from my point of view, short stories require an incredible amount of finesse that I know I don't possess right now. Instead of using short stories to get a grip on your style, I think it's easier to use anything you're writing to get a grip on creating a short story, as convoluted as that might seem.

On the other hand, maybe I just have a distorted view of short stories because I haven't found one/many that I like (similar to why so many people have an aversion to poetry).

On a side note, I'm curious: what side of the line do you see novellas as falling on? (and please don't answer with "novels, of course; it's in the name!" )