Young Writers Society

Here's draft 2 of my redrawn version of Fontroy's Manga Demon. The shading is REALLY wonky, I know...so don't comment on it lol.

((((PICTURE REMOVED TO SPARE THE EYES OF ALL DECENT ARTISTS OUT THERE. SAID PICTURE WILL RETURN WHEN DONO MANAGES TO FIX THE SHADING))))

Bad shading! Very bad... no, joke... it just needs to be improved somehow. The one thing that is bothering me is the arm and hand with that ball... I don't know what it is, it just bugs me. O___O When Sponson gets on, he'll tell you... or correct me and say it's fine, heh.

I really like it though! The face totally rocks!

Emma, you need to learn a bit of something called critiquing etiquette. There's this thing where you compliment first, then say what's wrong, then compliment again. People hate it when they spend so much time on something, just to have people point out how bad it is. It's really discouraging. (That goes for you, too, Sponson...)

We dont point out its bad.
We point out whats wrong.

YOUR WORK SUCKS. or STOP DRAWING YOU SUCK

Now thats bad etiquette.
However, pointing out what needs to be fixed only helps the person get better so theres less things to fix.
Its a pretty nice cycle.

Remember, what needs to be fixed doesnt mean the picture is bad.
The only way a picture is bad is if you've been told how to do it and you callously ignore it or you dont even want to improve.

What emma said isnt actually a critique.

Bad shading! Very bad... no, joke... it just needs to be improved somehow.

Improved somehow? How does that help at all?
If you did something wrong and someone said "no no no, you got it all wrong, fix it" without telling you HOW to fix it, how would you feel?

No! No! No! Stop picking on me! *cries* And Sponson! Talk about Dono's picture!

Emma, you need to learn a bit of something called critiquing etiquette. There's this thing where you compliment first, then say what's wrong, then compliment again. People hate it when they spend so much time on something, just to have people point out how bad it is. It's really discouraging.

At least I am commenting on his picture and GIVING him a compliment! I do really like it! And don't take it away Dono, I'm sorry for sounding so mean because that's what these two are making me out to be! It's really good. OK, the shading, it's messed up because of the way you checked it. I think you should use more lines instead of making it so.. square like... If that made sense AT all.

unfortunatly, we cant SEE the picture anymore.

While I know that saying what's wrong with the picture (and something wrong is bad...) is supposed to help people, not everyone is good at accepting the truth straightforward. While that is in no way your fault, it would be nice to be more considerate of their feelings.

Are you saying its wrong and bad to critique someone's work?
Because your pointing out someone's flaw in their work. And flaw can mean wrong, which means bad.

Then how else are we going to help them?
Theres no real way of going around, because eventually its still going to end up telling them their work is flawed.

Flaws arent always bad man.

If it's not bad, then it's not a flaw, but a positive trait. In any case, I just said that it's ok to critique, but that it helps to pad it with encouragement and what parts you liked. If youspent hours working on something, then everyone pointed out what was wrong with it and no one said anything positive, wouldn't you be pretty bummed about it?

No, because if I spent hours on it, and had a ton of mistakes, it was obviously my fault.
And what they're telling me is how to spend the same amount of time and get better results, and look BETTER.

How can you be mad or discouraged at that?

I dont find moles a positive trait, sure they can make someone's face a recognizable face by uniqueness, in that case its both good and bad.

People do point out the common mistake.
http://wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=79531

point out some encouragement except from the fact that warhammer rocks.
I couldnt find a single "good job", and nor do I care that much for a single good job.
By now knowing the knowledge of "white is bad" and "flat-faced", I know where my problems are.
The flat faced is obvious due to the wrongful shading and wrong perspective of the jaw and face.

All this can help me on my next picture. And to be mad at critisism at its purity is to be mad at improvement.
However, some critiques may say how "crappy" it is by throwing negative insults at them.
Such as "the face looks like a piece of crap because the forehead is too wrinkly".

Sponson, you're not getting it. Logic is irrelevant here. No matter how much critiques are supposed to make people happy because they can improve, it just doesn't happen all the time.

I know you said the "They cant handle the truth!" and the "But so much hard-work!" thing.
But I just cant understand them! Im sorry but its not withen my perception to do such things.
I dont understand why and as much as Id like to I cant.

Maybe it will hit me sooner or later.

Can you go into more detail as to why it makes people less happy? I could always sugar coat, I can do that.
But I cant sugar coat and critique at the same time, it kinda makes my post seem like a giant lie, one way or another.
However, when something catches my eye, I do comment on how nice it looks.

Just look at the "helocopter" thread, the one with The Silent Aviator. I did a critique and comment there.
I just cant pull random things out of my rear to say nice things about.

You don't have to understand people to be nice to them.

I am being nice when I critique, it means I take the time to go through their work and help them. And thats what I dont understand. How it cant be nice.
Your definition may be different than mine, and we work off our definitions, or at least I do.
Maybe I dont understand your motives, maybe you dont understand mine. Either way I do agree with you, as much as I agree with myself.
I fear that if I pad it too much, the meaning will get lost.

However, I think our biggest disagreement is the fact that you say theres no room for logic but I say logic is the key to understanding.

This is stupid. As in really stupid.

What's even worse than a bad critique is cluttering up a thread, which was supposed to be about Dono's artwork, with inane babble. Stop it, both of you.