Bronte x 3 literary discussion (plus vote)

Snoink

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Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:53 am

Snoink says... · Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:53 am

OKAY. So, I just finished Wuthering Heights, which was quite intense (GO ELLEN. YOU'RE THE ONLY LIKABLE CHARACTER IN THAT BOOK!). And... OMG. Heathcliff is like... the most horrible character ever. Why would anyone like him? I DON'T KNOW.

Also, I think I understand why Stephanie Meyer was inspired in part from this book (which I was amused to see the word "scintillating"). Though I haven't read Meyer yet, I have read feminist criticisms of her, and reading Wuthering Heights, I am struck with the strong female characters that allow themselves to bow under the strong male presences that are imposed on them, usually in periods of isolation. Honestly, I think that, if you're going to make an argument against Meyer using those feminist criticisms, you would be better off banning Wuthering Heights from high school, seeing as that is what is actively being taught in school. (I think? I believe it is part of the high school curriculum, at least somewhere, with regards to classic literature.)

Still... as far as the Bronte sisters go, I think that Jane Eyre was by far the better book. What can I say? The characters of Emily's novel never really change... they continue to be as they are, and it is annoying because they are often quite hateable. Whereas, in Charlotte's novel, there is a sense of change upon the characters, and you're not sure whether to hate or to love, and so you have that drama going on as well. Way more feels!

...I don't really like Anne's book, but I admit to not having finished it in its entirety. Still, it is brutal, and the fact that the woman could be so gentle with a man after her gave her brother (I think it was her brother?) a brutal head injury turned me off to her. I just... it seemed so violent, and I don't really like how she was so willing to give this man (who previously beat up her brother(?)) her confidence so easily. Maybe I haven't read enough? This very fact irked me enough to put it down.

ANYWAY. Vote! And discuss!

Ubi caritas est vera, Deus ibi est.

"The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls the butterfly." ~ Richard Bach

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Hannah

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Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:45 pm

Hannah says... · Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:45 pm

I haven't read Anne's book, but I remember both books having problems.
I remember completely hating Heathcliff and having a similar train of thought to you: like, how can a book be successful if you completely HATE the main character -- what makes it attractive, still?

I remember hating Jane Eyre because Mr. Rochester was completely lame, too, like that whole

Spoiler

I have a wife, but love me anyway

thing was too much for a girl to get over. Then the end was randomly magical? Liked the second guy she met, I think, but I read it like four years ago and maybe don't remember well.

Still, something about those books make them memorable big names -- what is it?

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ArcticMonkey

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Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:58 pm

ArcticMonkey says... · Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:58 pm

Even though I voted Jane Eyre in that poll, simply because I thought it was really good and when I was reading it I wasn't expecting it to end like that! Also, I could never really properly get into Wuthering Heights, and I kinda read the Tenant of Wildfell Hall but not really.

I also really like 'Villette' by Charlotte Bronte because I guess I just liked the plot a lot.

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megsug

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Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:27 am

megsug says... · Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:27 am

I think these names might be so big now is because of how successful they were when they were first published.

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Snoink

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Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:49 am

Snoink says... · Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:49 am

...we have some Wuthering Heights lovers!

@ArcticMonkey: I KNOW. I WAS SO SURPRISED. Mr. Rochester is crazy, and I never knew where the story was going to go!

@Hannah: We are going to have to disagree greatly here! The second guy she meets, Saint John, is absolutely TERRIBLE for her.

Spoiler

First of all, she has a sisterly regard for him and sees him as a brother. In fact, he kind of takes her in as a brother too, and they even split her inheritance, which she shares with her new "siblings." Considering that they were not actually brother and sister (just first cousins) then they technically could have married. But... well... we'll get back to this point later!

He regards her as an intelligent woman who can help him with his ambitions, but he really has no love for her. He wanted to marry her so that he could bring her to a foreign country to do missionary work with him, even though she flatly tells him that this is something that would kill her. I have been reading accounts of saints of that era that went to these places and yes -- she would definitely have died there, because most of them did, and consider her disposition, she wouldn't last long. However, he totally ignored this.

Next, she offered to go with him, with the full knowledge that she would die in this foreign country. Her only condition? She wanted to go as his sister, since she saw him as her brother. However, Saint John flatly refused, saying that there would be "shame" in her going as his unmarried sister, and therefore they had to marry. Or else. Furthermore, he used his religious authority to shame her into feeling like she was committing herself to hell. This made her more upset, and she asserted once more that she would help him -- she just wanted to go as his sister instead, but he denied her even more.

THIS IS NOT HEALTHY.

Plus! He didn't even love her! He loved another woman, but he denied himself of her, thinking that it was his religious duty, because he thought that it would be sinful (or whatever) for him to marry someone he was attracted to. The reason why he wanted to marry Jane Eyre was because she wasn't attractive to him.

He isn't a BAD man, mind you, but his motives for marriage were not good, and I am glad that Jane refused him, ultimately.

As far as Mr. Rochester is concerned...

Spoiler

I think what's important here is, back in the day, it wasn't so easy to divorce, and that the whole "sickness and in health" commitment was more than just words, and that it did contain mental illness as well. Mr. Rochester did what many people did who had a insane spouse -- lock her up and keep her hidden. The other option would be sending her to an insane asylum, where (at that point of history) she would probably be beaten severely and starved... which admittedly would kill her off faster.

While I would still assert that it is wrong, I think it is understandable that he would fall in love with Jane and want to ignore his previous marriage. After all, his wife seemed more like a prisoner that he had to keep locked up (or else face her trying to stab him/burn him alive). Whereas, he totally dug Jane.

IT WAS STILL WRONG. But, I think it's understandable.

...and, I loved that the fact that the ending was kind of magical. It was awesome.

Ubi caritas est vera, Deus ibi est.

"The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls the butterfly." ~ Richard Bach

Moth and Myth <- My comic!

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StellaThomas

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Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:51 pm

StellaThomas says... · Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:51 pm

I was once in the photocopying room (which is forbidden to students) with my English teacher having a debate that had been reduced to "Charlotte!" "Emily!" "Charlotte!" "Emily!" when the Chaplain came in looking scandalised.

It was a pretty Bronte moment in itself.

But really I'm a Charlotte fan. I hated Wuthering Heights. I read it when I was fourteen so maybe I didn't pick up on the nuances. But I hated it. I thought all the characters were despicable, their relationships were bordering on scary and certainly unhealthy and the role of Ellen as a narrator bugged me because a) I wanted to hear more about her own life because I liked her and b) I found it highly unlikely that they conducted all this business in front of her. I just didn't appreciate it. Plus the whole ghost thing and... it was a weird combination. And I just didn't like the two generations or the way it was done.

Jane Eyre... it's a little silly maybe. But it's a good story. I think that's what made it so famous. I totally fell for Rochester- come on, he's smoking hot. Intelligent, rich- and he falls for mousy little Jane Eyre! Maybe that's another reason it sold so well. Jane herself annoys me for the first half of the book, and maybe that's how these books became inspiration for Twilight- mousy, useless heroine saved by strong rich men. But Jane comes into her own- and the twist really took me by surprise, because I didn't know it was coming. I mean, who suspected that?! I think it was just a well-written plot turn.

I've only read the first couple of chapters of Tenant of Wildfell Hall, but I liked that. On the other hand, I really hated Villette after reading half (Where she suddenly realises that she knew the guy all along... how silly!)

"Stella. You were in my dream the other night. And everyone called you Princess." -Lauren2010

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