Che who?

I think Harley's comment proves my point that his image has become everything communism went against.

i didnt see this topic!! i got a che guevara patch for my bag (which they sold in Tammy, for gods sake) and i knew who the dude was. "Cuban revolutionist" according to my mum. Thanks for the link dan i'll check it out. Wasn't he a symbol for a band or something? Well, no, actually the band used him as their symbol. I had him as an avatar and a friend asked me who that singer was...

Hayley, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I know what you're trying to say, but you're buying things like that without really knowing who Che Guevara was. Your mother telling you he was a 'Cuban Revolutionist' isn't really enough. He was so much more than that, T-Sirts and stickers mean nothing but pop-culture of you do not understand and support him, his notion of change and what he did for his people. I started this thread because I was sick of people thinking he was just another face on a barcode.

hawk, i'm not talking about his enemies. I'm talking about his ruthless activities with his own troops who disobeyed him or angered them. He in fact killed hundreds of his followers, that's why he was ruthless. When you are in a situation where you are having to shoot many of your own followers it is very difficult to suggest he was a great leader.

Midnight, I understand, I just assumed you were talking about the gov., it's not entirely clear what he actually did to his troops, no one has the sort of information because they were rebel guerillas and not really willing to throw themselves into the governments eye. It's true though, he did have a certain hardness about him, and it did make him ruthless not just towards his opposition but also to his men. A lesser assertive man could not have done it, and I’m not saying it was right, very little about those times were, but sometimes life is just really that cruel.

And, Qi, todays "democracy" or capitalism is much more better? The comunism by many is considered as one of the bst goverments in the world. It stands for equilibrium. Everyone has as much as he needs. Everyone gets payed if they work. And yes it has its flwas. Some would say controled media. Dont tell me theres no controled media now. Dont get m wrong, but america tryes to monoploize much of everything. Like the oil in Iraq. As I said, it started by destroying ther WTC, then to Osama (which the americans have trained him) then they forgot about him and went in pursiung Saddam Hussein. And on the news all I could see was "250 oil firleds were liberated, or casualties blablabla" Is that much better than comunism? To tell the truth every europian country had a comunist party before WWI. And the parties were second in power. 3 months before the start, all of the leaders were assasinted. Comunsim at least has control over the population. Less crime, less murders and such.

Arvandor, the reason general populace (and they are) is opposed to Communism is not because of its ideal (which is what you've been outlining), but its reality. Take the USSR for example, Lenin had Russia convinced that the serfs would lead a better quality of life without the Tsars leaning over them with an iron fist; he basically romanticized revolution, but didn't stick around to see it through. Stalin, his self-appointed successor, gained power and brought the Soviet Union into a fascist rule, his workers, since liberated from their hard lives in the countryside, were then forced to work in factories in order for the USSR to become industrialized. Their living standards actually decreased, and were purged in their thousands.
Less crime, you say? Sure, less crime committed by civilians, but just take one look at the red army, and you'd be biting your tongue.


I wonder if you remember the Tiananmen Square Massacre in China? In a democratic country, students peacefully protesting a communist segment of the government would not have been shot down. Sure, you can go ahead proclaiming its brilliant theories, its brilliant ideals, but the reality is a little more clouded.

Um, I didn't mean all I knew about Che was what my mum told me. I meant that's the way she put it. I was saying that they sold a thing with the guy on it in Tammy (which is a teen shop for those of you who don't know, I think it's only in the UK but I might be wrong) and I just thought that the dude had been exploited so much, and that made me realise. I bet out of all the people that bought that patch less than a quarter of them knew who Che was, or they thought he was a singer.

hawk, fair point. Takes a lot to make me agree with people.

You should watch Motorcycle Diaries. Really great film, the first time I watched it no-one told me it was about Che Guavera and I only realised at the end. I most have watched that film in a completely differant way to everyone else. I have it on DVD now though.

i just rented it and i'm gonna watch it tonight.

yay the guy that plays Che who is also in Bad Eduction...well he is very good looking.

Yeah Hawk I know that. But I dont want people to say that democracy is the perfect goverment cuz it has as many flaws as comunism. Hey im half comunist, maybe even more lol!

i know hes a 'cuban revolutionist' and that he was for communism etc
but im ashamed to say i dont really know enough about him... i didnt even
know that much until one of my friends told me, he knows a lot about him
and likes the pics and stuff...

can anyone tell me some more stuff plz?

Oh, Hawk, I just realised something. I'm Harley, not Hayley... I get it all the time IRL... lol

sorry harley, easy mistake.

Midnight, yeah, i head about the film and i wished i'd seen if before it stopped screening. i'll see it eventually when it comes to dvd. but from what people have told me, the part of che was perhaps a little too timid, too 'nice', i guess, and lacked that hardness i was talking about, and what you were saying about him being ruthless. i cant say for sure until i've seen it.

arvandor, you can't be 'half communist,' its a theory or a belief. whether your family comes from russia, cuba, germany or wherever, it's what you yourself believe and i guess what your country is. democracy, i agree, is not perfect, but man will always have the desire to control, desire for power. there is no such thing as utopia in a government. it doesn’t matter what rockstars say.

hawk, well it focuses on the years before the violence when he was a 'timid' doctor which is what is so fantastic about it. At the beggining of the film he is given a gun which never reappears and it's that imagery, the warning of the violence to come in his future which is so fantastic.

fair enough. i'll have to watch it, but i do hope the character has some kind of edge.

here, kayjuran, (and any others that are interested) is a brilliant article on Che:

http://www.time.com/time/time100/heroes/profile/guevara01.html

I saw the movie motorcycle diaries and i loved it. I have Che for my Avie and I know who he is. Right now I am reading some of his speeches. Also I am for my project for national history day is going to be about him.

marching_gurl89 wrote:I saw the movie motorcycle diaries and i loved it. I have Che for my Avie and I know who he is. Right now I am reading some of his speeches. Also I am for my project for national history day is going to be about him.

commie.