Che who?

You see teenagers wearing the t shirt, the red and black one, with their spiked hair and eyebrow rings. You see them walking around thinking they’re modern day revolutionaries, (rebellious of parents who “suck”?). You know I wouldn’t mind it if they actually knew who he was.
It angers me to know that these people think he’s some rock star, or some retro sixties fashion poster boy. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got the poster in my room, and I think it’s perfectly fine if you knew a little bit about his ideals. Half the teenagers today would be screwed if someone asked them what socialism was.
People use to look to Che as a symbol of rebellion, rebellion for an actual cause, but now he’s just a fashion accessory.

And no, this didn’t stem off the Motorcycle diaries, I’ve never seen it, but I’m glad the film was made; perhaps my generation will learn a bit about Che Guevara and not the black and red picture on pop culture magazine covers.

I have heard of him and it is true about kids just using him as a fashion accessory.

My dad is like one of them, but at least he knows a little bit about him. He did something which should be rememberal, not just his face.

My friend Claire has him on a shirt and she wears it to a college, one of the history teachers asked if she knew anything about him and she told him aload of stuff she knew about him lol.

i know his history! i know the story! i knew it as a teenager! dont lose hope yet hawk!

What Che stands for is great--what he did to get there is just wrong.

What he did to get there? do you mean by his use of violence? It was repentive, Hunter. Che stood for communism, sure, something you Americans are renown (notorious?) for violating. and sure he carried a mauser under his pelt, he killed a lot of people too, but I don't think what he did to get (wherever it was he got before they shot him) was particularly immoral, considering what he stood for was an ideal that was well justified in ethical views, humanities right to choose, and such perhaps acted [in movement?] by sealing the fate of various acting and opposing militants and what was considered the ‘law’. That’s what being a guerilla was about; you understand he had to make those sorts of sacrifices.

Che Guavera is recognized as a hero by most of the people that knew of him. He was just trying to do what he thought was best for his people. He saw and recognized a corrupt government, he knew a democratic government would lead to the inevitable same corruption via polatics. so he found a way that would free the people of this corruption, and he went for the jugular. Che wasn't trying to be vicious on his way to his goal, he had to be. Look at the history of the area, you'll see.

HAWK:

Sure, we're known for hating communism... can you blame us? it stands for everything we oppose. We want to earn money, communism wants to destroy it. we want to be able to climb socially, communism wants you to stay where you are. we want to have democratically elected leaders, who can best act in times of national and world crisis, communism, idealy would have no leaders, however, in practice, communism reverts to tyranical communism. In short, communism is anti american. Now, as for the communist leaders, those guys that go out on a limb, risk their lives by the cruelst fate of torture, and try to establish a communist state - well, Lenon is usually presented as a hero in classes. Its stalin we hate. We absolutely adore Castro - before the rat bastard double crossed us, after that we hate him. So we dont like communism... i say; whats to like?

QiGuaiGongFu: I'm not battering on what America thinks of communism, my own country has the same opinion, as does, apparently, the entire western world, it's merely various 'events', I guess, that I'm pointing to. Myself? I never liked it (communism or socialism, regardless if leader is Stalin or Lenin). If I'm an engineer, I want to earn more money than the guy who collects the garbage down my street, but it's all opinion according. From where Che stood, the idea of communism, of equality, seemed ideal to a suffering nation (or, perhaps, a country that wasn't).

dunno if thiss should be a lounge topic.

Firstly the commercialisation of che is hilarious considering what he was a communist. The picture has come to mean middle class teenage rebellion a lot of the time.

Also Che Guavera was good in some ways, but he was a violent ruthless man not least to his own troops. No guerilla warfare leaders should be painted as saints.

A guerilla militant is usually seen as traitor to his country, violent, ruthless, and blinded by the illusion that if you have guns you have power (often this illusion is more than that). But in Che's case, as in the Spanish Revolution and countless other instances, a minority of men and women hold arms against a government who has been corrupted. When there is no oppression toward the people, there is no legitimate cause for rebellion. He could hardly go around shoving flowers down the barrels of men’s rifles and expect his point to be taken, expect to see some sort of change.
Guerilla's are not anarchists, especially in this case; they stood up to defend themselves and their families, with guns, and with violence, to be heard, and to be noticed. Che was painted as a saint in the countries he fought for because he stood up to make a change, and, to do that, you really had to go to the extremes and become a guerilla leader, to take charge. They had to shoot back when they were shot at, what did you expect?

If you ask me, there was no other was around it, no less violent way. He was shot; there was no peace-keeping agreement. Shot like a dog. If he'd had more force, perhaps all he did could have amounted for something after all.

Weren't most people from countries like that in favor of communism anyway? From what i have read about him in this topic, he seems to be a person just standing up for what he believed in, i would do the same, if i was put in a similar situation. Though maybe less violent.

Ok, I just did a google search on him, and have the basic outlines of what he did.
http://flag.blackened.net/kara/political/che/
For anyone that's interested.

hawk, i'm not talking about his enemies. I'm talking about his ruthless activities with his own troops who disobeyed him or angered them. He in fact killed hundreds of his followers, that's why he was ruthless. When you are in a situation where you are having to shoot many of your own followers it is very difficult to suggest he was a great leader.

Sure, we're known for hating communism... can you blame us? it stands for everything we oppose. We want to earn money, communism wants to destroy it. we want to be able to climb socially, communism wants you to stay where you are. we want to have democratically elected leaders, who can best act in times of national and world crisis, communism, idealy would have no leaders, however, in practice, communism reverts to tyranical communism. In short, communism is anti american. Now, as for the communist leaders, those guys that go out on a limb, risk their lives by the cruelst fate of torture, and try to establish a communist state - well, Lenon is usually presented as a hero in classes. Its stalin we hate. We absolutely adore Castro - before the rat bastard double crossed us, after that we hate him. So we dont like communism... i say; whats to like?




And, Qi, todays "democracy" or capitalism is much more better? The comunism by many is considered as one of the bst goverments in the world. It stands for equilibrium. Everyone has as much as he needs. Everyone gets payed if they work. And yes it has its flwas. Some would say controled media. Dont tell me theres no controled media now. Dont get m wrong, but america tryes to monoploize much of everything. Like the oil in Iraq. As I said, it started by destroying ther WTC, then to Osama (which the americans have trained him) then they forgot about him and went in pursiung Saddam Hussein. And on the news all I could see was "250 oil firleds were liberated, or casualties blablabla" Is that much better than comunism? To tell the truth every europian country had a comunist party before WWI. And the parties were second in power. 3 months before the start, all of the leaders were assasinted. Comunsim at least has control over the population. Less crime, less murders and such.

i didnt see this topic!! i got a che guevara patch for my bag (which they sold in Tammy, for gods sake) and i knew who the dude was. "Cuban revolutionist" according to my mum. Thanks for the link dan i'll check it out. Wasn't he a symbol for a band or something? Well, no, actually the band used him as their symbol. I had him as an avatar and a friend asked me who that singer was...