Young Writers Society

As much as I love ranting about the opposite gender, I am more curious as to the books they read. I still want to know: can someone find me a book with a female protagonist that can be enjoyed by both males and females? I know, Meep already found one (thanks Meep; I love the Golden Compass!) but I'm curious as to books for adults as well. It almost seems like the older someone is, the more novels geared towards males and females specifically, rather than at the same time, you know? Come to think of it, when you're little, it seems like most of the stories are about animals, which can seem rather genderless (though not always in reality).

Guys, let's keep this to topic and not to gender-bashing, okay? ^_^

I think the problem is that I simply don't think boys read as much- for enjoyment, at least, and on an average- as girls do. I know a lot of bookish girls, but very few boys who are like that (boys of that sort tend to be into math and not literature). Why is this?

...discuss.

I'm into books, but abhor math.

I have a friend, Eddy, he's doing Physics at university, and he's been known to come round my house and demand that I give him books because he's read all of the ones at home.

I know far more bookish guys than I do bookish girls.

To answer Sam's question [First, a disclaimer. I am aware that I'm about to be horribly stereotypical, blunt, and gender biased. Now I acknowledge that I'm doing this, so let's not keep the discussion of stereotypes going because we all know they're false anyway. Anyway. On with the show!]:

Take a math geek and an English geek [gender doesn't matter at the moment] and stand them side by side. Which one would the vast majority of people think is smarter? I think most people would say the math geek because his "smartness" is more quantifiable. Would then boys be more attracted to math than English because of this [making them less likely to read, making them less likely to read something outside a Stephen King novel]?

simple, yet genius
Way to go!

Most of my male friends and other guys really don't want to be "smart". They want to be athelitic or apathetic about everything. The cool quota is not caring.

Now about the math/english thing:

Boys and girls' brains are wired differently. Generally, boys tend to be more logical and girls tend to be more asthetic. And creating a story is based in asthetics. Every once in a while you get people who are good at both. It's not a matter of boys vs. girls, it's a matter of culture and how one is raised. I was raised around books. And I tend to naturally be a fairly...large scale, visionary , creative person. Mix it all together and what do ya got? A guy teenage writer.

It's not a matter of what you "want" to be (unless you're filling the above mentioned cool quota) it's the enviroments you'e been exposed to...

-Kylan

And how does that relate to the subject? I myself was raised around cliche writer stuff, and guys. Seriously most of my friends growing up were guys, we used to chase each other around and pretend we were in a war.

BTT

IF you mean most guys are most guys are raised around the concept of sports and being like that makes them less bookwormish then that totally makes sense, otherwise it just doesn't.

IF you mean most guys are most guys are raised around the concept of sports and being like that makes them less bookwormish then that totally makes sense, otherwise it just doesn't.

That's exactly what I meant. Among other things. I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer.

However, I don't see the whole "guys=atheltics" thing as parentally mandated, I think instead that it's more society playing that part. Society says that guys have to be macho and sporty.

-Kylan

Jonny911 & Winters, I'm just repeating what I've read and been told. I'm not saying it's true of every boy, and I hope I didn't imply it when I said it. It's just that, in general, boys prefer to read about boys. (See earlier post for more on this, if you missed it.) I'm not condemning it, I'm just sayin'.

Like Kylan said, society tends to (subliminally and not-so-subliminally) pressure boys into being "masculine," and only associating "masculinity" with being "macho." (This also works towards girls, who are pressured into being "feminine," though I can't think of a gender-equivalent term for "macho.")

Kylan, is there any way to know that boys and girls aren't socialized to be more logical or more aesthetic? (This is a whole 'nother topic, but it might be worth discussing.)

I was thinking about this earlier, and I think novels with female protagonists tend to be written in such a way that male readers may feel alienated or uncomfortable. Do you guys feel this is true?
(Someone mentioned Harry Potter's gender neutrality in that he displayed some stereotypical feminine traits - such as caring and crying - but most female characters lack balancing masculine traits.)

Also, could one of our guy readers/writers comment on my choice of The Golden Compass as a gender-neutral book with a female protagonist?

Also, would anyone like to comment on books with a male protagonist that tend to be more enjoyable to female readers? These books - The Vampire Lestat comes to mind, I know none of my guy friends read past the implied love affair with Nicholas - also usually tend to be written by female authors. (Another example is the shounen-ai/yaoi manga that's so popular right now.) What do you guys (and girls) think of this? Discuss.
(Also, can you think of books with female protagonists that are actually geared towards male readers?)

I think that most of what I've read here is rubbish. I never look at the gender of he protagonist - it doesnt figure into my thinking about whether I'll pick up a book or not. It's the storyline that attracts me, not : MALE PROTAGONIST - READ THIS/ FEMALE PROTONGANIST WITHIN! READ NOW!

I think you'll notice that such notices don't exist, normally. Nor do I apply gender to my favourite writers. My all time favourite writer is Janny Wurts alongside Neil Gaiman; Tolkien/J. K Rowling; David Gemmel/Sara Douglas. There's a balance, I love a mixture of writers from both genders.

Likewise, some of my favourite characters are a mix of genders - females written by men, all men written by women or vice versa. It really doesnt matter, the awesomenes of that character being the deciding factor. Likewise, I've hated characters of both genders.

Golden Compass is awesome, yes. Other books with female protagonists that would appeal to both genders? I think one of the ultimate, the greatest fantasy triolgies ever written was a collaboration by two of the greats: Janny Wurts and Raymond.e.Feist with the Daughter of the Empire, Mother of the Empire, and Servant of the Empire books. An absolutely spellbinding, enthralling, politically brilliant and ruthless story of a young girl upon whose hands is thrust the reign of a failing House. One of my alltime favourites, and what do you know, the protagonist is female struggling to survive in a male dominated culture and world.

Sara Douglas' Troy Game series protagonist is also female, in fact, its a series of females spanning generations. It's almost exclusively all-female, with a few but important male characters, it too is a brilliant series. Ancient greek mythology has never been twisted, dramatised, retold and recreated in such an amazing fashion.

Trudi Canavan wrote the Black Magician Trilogy, another fantasy series with a female protagonist - again, its one of my favourites. Why? These stories are all well written, brilliant storylines with great magic involved - that's all I need.

Also, The Witches of Eileanean series by Kate Forsyth is another great. There are so many its ridiculous - I could go on and on. Let us not forget Sarah Zettel with her Isavalta novels - such brilliant tales of sorcery and spirit interwoven with a modern, 18th century world.

On the other side, I have a host of male protagonist driven stories and writers as well. Gender means nothing.

Jiggity wrote:I think that most of what I've read here is rubbish. I never look at the gender of he protagonist - it doesnt figure into my thinking about whether I'll pick up a book or not. It's the storyline that attracts me, not : MALE PROTAGONIST - READ THIS/ FEMALE PROTONGANIST WITHIN! READ NOW!

...

Gender means nothing.

Which makes you an exception to the rule, and that's good. I'm not surprised that we'd have more exceptions on a writing forum, where we can assume most members enjoy reading in general.

I'd be an exception as well.

I was always baffled by how girls can have masculine traits and (not in all cases, certainly) be accepted while boys with feminine traits have a much tougher time. Still am, I guess. It's kinda like reverse sexism or something.

I was thinking about this earlier, and I think novels with female protagonists tend to be written in such a way that male readers may feel alienated or uncomfortable. Do you guys feel this is true?

This doesn't happen with me, as I've already stated, but I can see it being true in a lot of cases. Insecurity is common among males who feel like they have to prove their masculinity; sadly, from my observation, these types also seem to be growing in number. To be fair, guys that fit this mold tend to read very little anyway – too busy drinking fighting and playing football, amirite?

But I jest. I would agree that a female protagonist can make a male a reader feel awkward in many cases, though.

Indeed, female protagonists go through female cycles, which males are not comfortable with at all. If a male protagonist has to go bath in a lake, it's no big deal. If a female character does, you feel awkward. Same thing goes for if women are going through their more sensitive times. Guys can get really uncomfortable with that.

Furthermore, many of the stories featuring female characters only because they have a feminist agenda. This is very visible and it makes males feel awkward. They picked it up for a good story, not for a NOW pamphlet.

The keyword here is awkward. If it makes guys uncomfortable, they ditch it. If guys avoid female characters, then it is because they are awkward with females, not because of any overarching bias against them.

Male society does play a part. First thing: males are competitive. They may compete against one another or in groups, but we are always competitive. When a guy is not competitive, then he is run down. We've been competing for millenniums, for food, females, and land. That is the background we've come up with.

As such, we have grown to admire those that are the best. The best ball player, the fastest runner, the cleverest liar. As such, we expect the main character to keep up with this. Displaying weakness is a fault because weakness is not what guys respect. We respect strength. If you're weak then guys run over you.

Someone mentioned that Harry Potter wasn't the most manly of characters out there and I would agree. However, Harry also displays characteristics that make him an excellent character. He is honest and real, there is no false bravado. He also has a clear sense of right and wrong, has courage in spades, and that makes him a convincing hero. So even though we had the whole angsty portion of growing up as a teenager, we also had a male protagonist which we could respect.

So if you have a female character that we can respect and doesn't make us feel awkward, then chances are guys will read the story.

As a side note, guys usually do stupid things to impress females. Hence, guys aren't stupid, they're just stupid around you. Although it is hard to tell the difference between the two.

Hm, yes I would say that I am an exception. Even on the female cycles thing, I dont feel uncomfortable - in person? Different story, lol. (forgive the pun)

Respecting strength is something I'll grant you, some of my all time favourite female characters were awesomely strong; take Storm and Phoenix from X-men as an example - love those two. And the Aes Sedai in The Wheel of Time series, awesomely strong characters. Likewise some of my favourite characters aren't strong - nor are they weak though - so I grant you have a point there.

Agreed on the last point too.