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The Town of Nightville [DT]



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Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:58 pm
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TinkerTwaggy says...



@polishcommonwealth Oh, okay! Yeah no that's fine. Since the term kinda refers to an empire that's gone, though, it does have a tendency to mess with context, is all XD I'd have the same reaction if the CP mentioned that Micheal fled from the Third Reich, or was escaping from pro-Napoleonians.

And if you have no idea what you're talking about, no worries! That is what the internet is for, after all.
"Is there a limit to how much living I can live with my life? How will I know if I've gone too far?
And why did I spend my life savings on sunglasses for a whale?
I shall find the answers... to these questions."
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:33 pm
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polishcommonwealth says...



Thanks! Sorry, Turkey and Turks are the usual word replacement for "Ottomans" I just use old words because just as Micheal is a monarchist, I am a monarchist, and I love using old terms--Like, 19th century old terms--it's just a habit.
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:37 pm
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Necromancer14 says...



@polishcommonwealth Wait... you support the idea of authoritarian governments???? I mean, I'm not judging you or anything, I'm just curious.
Dumbledore: "Now, it's great that you've been saving the school and all Harry, but unfortunately your grades have been a tad low, and, well... perhaps Gandalf could explain it better... hit it, Gandalf!

Gandalf: "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:57 pm
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polishcommonwealth says...



Well, I'm not Fascist or Communist if that is what you are asking, I'm a monarchist, a person in favor of Monarchy. I mean, sure, people didn't have many liberties back then, it's true, but it is also chaotic when we--That is, the American Government--can't stick to our liberties. We have torn apart the Constitution, We proclaim the Founding Fathers people who did not know what they were doing, And look what it has come to! I'm not talking about the coronavirus or anything, I'm just saying that our nation is corrupt and needs help. America's prime moments were in the early and mid 1900's, Because America actually had to fight for their freedom then...Which is good...But now America doesn't have to fight for freedom. It puts down its sword, and lays at ease. But what happens when we are at ease? We do not fight for our country! For our Freedom! Instead we fight for our own profits, for our own benefit. The best kind of government is a Consitutional Monarchy. This way, the king has limited power, there are elections, and people have freedom. Doubtful that this government shall forget freedom, if the people are taught in the correct way.

Wow. That was really long.
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:00 pm
Necromancer14 says...



I'd love to debate with you, but we'd have to move it to the debating forum.
Dumbledore: "Now, it's great that you've been saving the school and all Harry, but unfortunately your grades have been a tad low, and, well... perhaps Gandalf could explain it better... hit it, Gandalf!

Gandalf: "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:18 pm
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TinkerTwaggy says...



Though I'll avoid a debate for reasons that @Necromancer14 s already mentioned, I believe that, as a European who comes from a continent that is riddled with side-effects given by monarchies, I should at least share my two cents on the matter. I'm also a history nerd, so, might well.

Disclaimer: @polishcommonwealth, should your character actually mention being a monarchist in-universe, we could use our opinions for the characters' sake. That's usually what I use the DT for, anyway. Now! Please follow the spoiler button to read. Everyone else, you don't have to!

Spoiler! :


•"I mean, sure, people didn't have many liberties back then, it's true" That's a terrifying understatement. Monarchy system means that the monarch can, at any time, apply laws that can destroy his subjects in ways that he can't necessarily anticipate because he doesn't know what it's like to be in the place of those he destroys.
Most kings are going to use that to their advantage, not because "humanity is naturally evil" or anything, but because it is logically and historically easier to do so.
It can also feel pretty darn good, for those who are into that.

•"when we--That is, the American Government--" Ah, you're American. Have you travelled to a European country and studied history through their lenses? Because if you haven't, I highly suggest you do so. The history of your continent is far, faaaaaar different from mine.

•"We have torn apart the Constitution" A monarchy would tear it apart even more. Even in a constitutional monarchy, a king could create a force similar to Hitler's SS to give himself full power illegally, then create an absolute monarchy with enough wits, wealth and military power. This happened time and time again and is still happening today.

•"We proclaim the Founding Fathers people who did not know what they were doing, And look what it has come to!" That has nothing to do with the institution of democracy, nor would a monarchy make things better. By concept, it puts pressure on a single, solitary being that is forced to surround himself with counselors in order to run a country, which costs money, time and care. A monarchy also means that the monarch's children would have to be trained basically from childhood, and not all children are suited to rule. This makes them very, very likely to turn into inhumane beings.

•"I'm just saying that our nation is corrupt and needs help." Monarchies can be and have been just as, and waaaaay more corrupt. There are authoritarian, monarchy-style governments right now in Africa that can show that to you. Also, what about the rest of the world? America's influence affects everyone else. They're part of the world economy, their reputation actually affects countries around them and their decisions are looked at by thousands of gazes.
I learned English because America's entertainment charmed me. If I learned that they switched to a monarchy, I would never, ever, EVER approach again, and Europeans would cut ties with them very, very fast. That would cause serious chaos.

And even if you don't mean to want a bad monarchy, there's a lot of people around you who definitely would. You can't control them unless you're the monarch yourself.

•"Because America actually had to fight for their freedom then..." Actually, France did. Americans did fight for their freedom, but they were outnumbered, outgunned and outmatched by most of the British military forces — America's main advantage was field knowledge, but their military power and weapons were provided by France. The French did this because A: some Frenchmen volunteered to help them, and B: they really wanted to get in Britain's way because these two countries were bitter rivals at the time, and still kind of are.

•"But now America doesn't have to fight for freedom." So, basically, you recognize that people in America have become complacent, so you want a monarchy so that they remember what fighting for freedom is like?

Well, there are several flaws in that logic, chief among them being that if a monarchy comes into America legally, they won't need to fight for freedom, since the whole point of the system is that, to oversimplify, one guy rules and everyone else obeys. If you don't need to fight for freedom, you don't fight for it: and when you do, it causes death all around you. Look up the French revolution, if possible. You'll get a good idea of what fighting for freedom means, and why it's not all that great compared to being complacent.

•"It puts down its sword, and lays at ease." As does most countries around them. If there's one thing World Wars taught us, is that war is costly, it causes trauma, it murders people and it. Gets. Messy. Peace is annoying, but at least you don't have a death toll of two to six million people. You also don't lose your limbs.

•"We do not fight for our country! For our Freedom! " Good. Less beheading, and less limb-loss. Oh, and less traumatized soldiers ready to overthrow the government just to stop fighting, then imposing taxes that'll make everyone poorer and ready to starve to literal death.

•"Instead we fight for our own profits, for our own benefit." That is... literally... What monarchy does. I'm not even insulting you, I'm serious: the whole point of monarchy is that a king rules and can do a lot of things he can get away with. Literally all of them, even the actually good ones, used their position for their own benefit. Humans do that as a whole. Not all of them, but still. No matter the system, you will always have people that fight for their own benefits.

•"The best kind of government is a Constitutional Monarchy." There is no such thing as a best kind of government, but monarchies as a whole just aren't, objectively. Forcing a family to rule with members not necessarily suited for the job has created monsters, or worse, incompetents. This will always happen eventually.

•"This way, the king has limited power, there are elections, and people have freedom." So... Democracy, then?

•"Doubtful that this government shall forget freedom, if the people are taught in the correct way." Then start by gaining money and inspiring the people of both America and the world to invest in more educational facilities and better teachers. The best way to teach freedom is to educate people into it. There is literally no need to switch back to a monarchy to do that: in fact, something that basically any European would tell you. We've had monarchies for centuries, it took extensive suffering, bloodbaths and genocides to get out of it.

No more of those would be great.



There we go. Though Sierra wouldn't necessarily say it the way I did, should there ever be a talk about the topic, that would definitely be how she'd feel about it too XD now, Sierra wouldn't be as harsh about it as I just was, but what can I say? It's part of my legacy. Kind of my duty to talk about it seriously, y'know?
Last edited by TinkerTwaggy on Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Is there a limit to how much living I can live with my life? How will I know if I've gone too far?
And why did I spend my life savings on sunglasses for a whale?
I shall find the answers... to these questions."
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:22 pm
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Necromancer14 says...



@TinkerTwaggy I actually made a debate forum for this, so you can put your spoiler! comment in there if you want :)
Dumbledore: "Now, it's great that you've been saving the school and all Harry, but unfortunately your grades have been a tad low, and, well... perhaps Gandalf could explain it better... hit it, Gandalf!

Gandalf: "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:29 pm
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TinkerTwaggy says...



Thank you! I think I'm good, though, because I don't actually need to debate about this. Like I said, I'm just a random dude who comes from the continent where monarchies were, um, very popular, so I mostly just broke the comment down to point out a few things. Basically everything I said is factual knowledge that can be found on history youtube channels, books or heck, even video games!
"Is there a limit to how much living I can live with my life? How will I know if I've gone too far?
And why did I spend my life savings on sunglasses for a whale?
I shall find the answers... to these questions."
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:07 pm
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Mageheart says...



I admit I've avoided replying in here because of the current conversation about monarchy. I know there's a debate thread - thanks for making that, by the way, @Necromancer14! - but chances are Emi is going to bring it up at some point in the storybook.

Like you, @polishcommonwealth, my characters often get their views from me. I respect any country's people that has a monarchy, but I can't have Emi - or myself - just ignore that in the context of America. I'm not like @TinkerTwaggy; I'm from America, too. We've never lived in a monarchy before, and given that Emi's queer (and a woman) like me, I honestly doubt she'd agree that the 1900s were America's peak.

I apologize for derailing the conversation from the actual storybook's plot, but I couldn't comment in this thread again with a good conscience if I didn't bring up how uncomfortable this made me.
mage

[ she/her, but in a boy kinda way ]

roleplaying is my platonic love language.

queer and here.
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:28 pm
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TinkerTwaggy says...



@Jaybird Oh, good! Yeah, see, that's why I took the topic seriously. It makes pretty much any European about as uncomfortable because of what it did — too many goshdarn wars — but I like to point things out rationally because that's just what I do. 'Sides, Polish himself doesn't seem to be a bloodthirsty tyrant and also royal castles make for a nice view.

That being said, the, uh, plot doesn't really exist yet since we're all supposed to help to create it when all the characters are here if I remember what Necromancer said correctly, but also, this is a character trait from one member of the SB that can be talked about inside of it. So, I think it makes perfect sense for you to mention how uncomfortable you feel about it, since that's bound to affect the writing of your character and her reaction to it. So, thanks for sharing that! It's good to know.
"Is there a limit to how much living I can live with my life? How will I know if I've gone too far?
And why did I spend my life savings on sunglasses for a whale?
I shall find the answers... to these questions."
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:47 pm
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EverLight says...



I don't talk about my politics online, but I will say one thing-this is certainly going to be an intresting storybook!
I'm winning at life!
  





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Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:52 pm
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Necromancer14 says...



@EverLight I agree! I did not expect politics to get involved.
Dumbledore: "Now, it's great that you've been saving the school and all Harry, but unfortunately your grades have been a tad low, and, well... perhaps Gandalf could explain it better... hit it, Gandalf!

Gandalf: "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"
  





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Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:27 am
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TinkerTwaggy says...



I mean, on my side it's more history than politics, but you can count on randomly chatting humans to do the unexpected, I guess.

Now that that conversation's over, I guess we'll just have to wait for the rest of the character profiles. Have fun making teenagers and/or monsters, y'all!
"Is there a limit to how much living I can live with my life? How will I know if I've gone too far?
And why did I spend my life savings on sunglasses for a whale?
I shall find the answers... to these questions."
  





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Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:35 am
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Necromancer14 says...



yup!
Dumbledore: "Now, it's great that you've been saving the school and all Harry, but unfortunately your grades have been a tad low, and, well... perhaps Gandalf could explain it better... hit it, Gandalf!

Gandalf: "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"
  








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