Young Writers Society

It is freedom of speech.

Wearing a t-shirt isn't harmful to anyone.

Now, if she donned a KKK outfit and started putting out "Kill the Blacks" propaganda, would it be free speech or a hate crime?

A hate crime, because she has crossed the boundary into promoting violence and racial hatred, which is not lawful. Of course, it would still be free speech, but not free speech protected by the law.

That's why the Canadian Charter says "To such reasonable limits."

Gotta love Pierre.

It is not a hate crime, simply someone expressing themsleves through their clothing. Different symbols have diffeent meanings to different people. For instance, If I went to school wearing a shirt with an Iranian flag, I would be expressing my freedom of speech/expression ,even though the more patriotic people may find it anti-American.

I live in the south, and a lot of people wear/display Confederate flags to display their regional pride or heritage. But some people truly believe in the principles of white supremacy and display the flag to express those beleifs. But these people are a minority- even in the south- and very few people wear the Confederate flag with hateful intentions.

I have no problem with someone expressing themselves. Once again, simply wearing the Confederate flag shouldn't be punished.

Tuefelshund, I was referring to Griffinkeeper's example if you were responding to my post - sorry for not being so clear. I agree that wearing the Confederate flag shouldn't be punished.

You should be allowed to wear a confederate flag. However, you would almost certainly be mauled, and then if there was enough disturbance in class you would be asked to change. As far as her reasoning for wearing the shirt, that's absolutely absurd (in substitution for stronger words). No one in their right mind would do that. No, there's definitely ulterior motive here. And I'm sure she's gotten enough grief just from the media coverage.

David Guinness wrote:You should be allowed to wear a confederate flag. However, you would almost certainly be mauled, and then if there was enough disturbance in class you would be asked to change. As far as her reasoning for wearing the shirt, that's absolutely absurd (in substitution for stronger words). No one in their right mind would do that. No, there's definitely ulterior motive here. And I'm sure she's gotten enough grief just from the media coverage.

You have obviously never been to the American South.

You have obviously never been to the American South.

I have- I was just writing from a liberal viewpoint. Just because I think one should be able to wear most anything they like doesn't mean they should. The key is that is would be extremely distracting, so even there were no rules specifically against wearing the flag, you would immediately be asked to change. Just as it should be, in my opinion.

Also, if she really does want to show respect to her ancestor, there are many, many other less controversial ways to do this, no matter the region. It's one thing if it's just out on the street, it's another if it's in a public school, which has people of many beliefs and origins.

This absolutely should not be allowed. I don't care what else the Confederate flag stands for--many will see it as a symbol of racism, (I only see it now as a racist symbol) and racism is not acceptable by any means. Of course the ridiculous girl had ulterior motives--no one in the right mind who was not a racist would dare adorn themselves with such absurdity. Just because a symbol means something else, or once meant something else, it does not give someone merit to wear it. It is like saying you're wearing a swastika because it was once a peaceful symbol before Hitler used it. If a symbol has been sullied by racism, then it should no longer be allowed. Racism is wrong, and it's unfortunate we still live in such a bigotted society.

Niamh wrote:This absolutely should not be allowed. I don't care what else the Confederate flag stands for--many will see it as a symbol of racism, (I only see it now as a racist symbol) and racism is not acceptable by any means. Of course the ridiculous girl had ulterior motives--no one in the right mind who was not a racist would dare adorn themselves with such absurdity. Just because a symbol means something else, or once meant something else, it does not give someone merit to wear it. It is like saying you're wearing a swastika because it was once a peaceful symbol before Hitler used it. If a symbol has been sullied by racism, then it should no longer be allowed. Racism is wrong, and it's unfortunate we still live in such a bigotted society.

You are very wrong Niamh. Most people in the south actually ARENT racist, even though the stereotype is otherwise. They may talk funny and have wieird beliefs, but most of em are just normal people. The confederate flag may represent a time of racism and slavery and oppression, but that doesnt mean the people who fly/wear them believe in that. Furthermore, you still have to disprove how this is against freedom of speech. If she can't wear the confederate flag, then we must be banning the Italian flags from the Italian-Americans, and somebody should tell the Irish they can't wave Irish flags on their St. Pat's day parade this year. Its completely absurd to say its illegal or somehow against freedom of speech...can't you see?

First, I never said it was illegal, or against the freedom of speech. Second, I would never make generalizations about any region, and was not about southerners. My grandparents on both sides are from Texas, and I have been there twice. I know something of the south. What I am getting at, is that I don't care whether or not it is her right to wear the shirt, I am saying it is wrong, and it is absolutely the school's right to forbid her from wearing it. If school authority can set guidelines about dresscode, prohiniting wearing an offensive symbol should be among the rules. Anyway, since many of these viewpoints supporting her rights seem to be coming from liberals, I must say that I am a liberal, and see how ridiculous it is to constantly push the constitution into everyone's face. Why don't we look at other important documents? The Declaration of Independence, for example, states that as humans, we deserve, "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." If your idea of liberty and happiness is wearing the Confederate flag, you are obstructing someone else's liberty, becaus to them, it may be a symbol of oppression. Push the constitution all you want, I will never see my view as wrong.

Nice way to keep an open mind, Niamh...
Being a complete outsider I clearly know little about American law/history. Thus I can only contribute my own opinion. I personally think she can wear what she likes; everything offends someone and it really seems silly to get hung up about something someone is wearing, to be honest, flag or no flag. As long as she's not going around promoting racial hatred et al then there is no actual threat to anyone. It may not be wise, it may not be politically correct- but she can and she has, so get over it! I always feel Americans are too attached to flags, to be honest. But then...we NZers can be pretty attached to ours if the occasion arises...which is silly, when you think about it. Blech symbolism.
Anyway. New Zealand has its fair share of racial tension, you know, but to me, to stop someone wearing a Confederate flag is like stopping a Maori from having a traditional tattoo because it offends some Pakehas (Europeans). It's dumb. And its partly because people get so hung up on the little things like that that we still have so much hatred and violence. It's just a shirt, for gossakes. And shes a TEENAGER! Honestly...teenagers wear the weirdest things anywho. A little perspective...

The confederacy stood up for imoral and unethical values. Why someone would want to wear something with the flag of the confederacy, is beyond me. I think that that girl's parents should have a talk with her.

Finally someone agrees with me. Personally, I think the majority Confederacy were a group of indolent bigots, who sided with slavery because they were too lazy to do their own work!

By the way, if everyone is going to be pushing the Constitution, don't forget that it is always being reviewed and modified. Don't forget the amendments, of all things. Everything is subject to change, and hopefully we will someday have a politician with time enough to review the Constitution, and change it to "Freedom of speech, excepting that which goes against another's human rights."

Freedom of speach, so long as you agree with me?

Thats the second load of BS I've seen on this board in the last 5 minutes. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to say it. Or wear it, or write it, or play it.

Niamh wrote:Finally someone agrees with me. Personally, I think the majority Confederacy were a group of indolent bigots, who sided with slavery because they were too lazy to do their own work!

By the way, if everyone is going to be pushing the Constitution, don't forget that it is always being reviewed and modified. Don't forget the amendments, of all things. Everything is subject to change, and hopefully we will someday have a politician with time enough to review the Constitution, and change it to "Freedom of speech, excepting that which goes against another's human rights."

The civil war had less to do with slavery, and more to do with state's rights. The northern states were getting an easy ride, while congress continued to pass more taxes that inflicted the south more than anything.
It wasn't a side with slavery, and the Imancipation Proclemation didn't free a single slave. The Confederacy was a confederacy because each state wanted more say in what went on within its own borders than the federal government. The Federalists, who controlled the government at the time, thought the opposite, that the federal government should have more say than the local government.

Bottom line- the south was being persecuted (only partially because of its pro-slavery position) and the north was making money. (which had nothing to do with its anti-slavery position.) The south had no industry, it was almost entirely farmland. The transcontinental railway, that was in the works, was going to bypass entirely all of the south. It was going to stay in the north and in the west. Destroying the south's hopes for raising any more money for its own rail roads.

The confederate flag you see all the time isn't the confederate flag. Its the flag the confederates flew during battle, but the flag that flew over the south's White House looking nothing like that.
go here:
http://www.dixieresearch.com/confederat ... e_Flag.gif

Your saying that the bill of rights, which is not ratifiable, will be changed? That this country is going to support a fundamental change to the first ammendment?! I don't think so. No speach, no matter how unpopular, will affect in any way anothers human rights. My rights are MY rights, and not your business. Unless my speach touches you, or causes you direct pain, you've got nothing to worry about.

Slavery wasn't about laziness. It was about money. And before the invention of the cotton gin, it was on the way out. It was more costly to feed and support a person who worked for you than the produce the picked and processed. The cotton gin made the whole process cheaper, and slavery became profitable again.
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