Young Writers Society

*bows* Thanks for reading. It's been fun.

^_^ Keek out!

Hey Valor, I'm back. I've actually found time to critique part 2. Might as well get started, since I quite like critiquing your work, as it is quite challenging to critique. This is 2 out of 75 for my 75 critique in a week challenge (must win).

Yazra threw her weight backwards, the sound of her falling flat on her back masked by the hair-raising squeal the boar let loose.

Insert a "that" between "squeal" and "the".

Yazra lay there a moment, hands still closed around the spear, considering playing dead for a little while to avoid it’s wrath—or she could stop the boar from battering his attacker to death.

Yazra jumped to her feet and grabbed the man’s heels, pulling him out of the injured animal’s reach. The boar screamed an objection, but every step it took towards the man was slow and painful.

Can you elaborate further as to how the man plays a role in this conflict?

Once I got over that though, my father began teaching me about survival. Over the three years I spent as his shadow, I learned about deceit, danger, death, destruction and that the very nature of man is to, in some way or another, crush other men. My father did not soften his teaching with metaphors; when he wanted to show me how to kill a man he found a body, handed me a weapon, and showed me where to stab.

Two things. 1. The very nature of man is to crush other men? Can you elaborate on that? 2. I was annoyed with the part "teaching with metaphors". Immediately, I get the impression of him being a typical fantasy mentor that speaks in like cliche material arts metaphor ( or any other cliche metaphor that is used to address the apprentice/student). Again, you might want to elaborate/explain this further so that I can see that Yazra's father is not a typical mentor.

Also, there should be a comma after "man".

Those types of lessons were limited in number, but by the time the shock wore off I was well used to the fact that death was a violent creature

Violent creature? In what way? How is Death defined as this? Care to expand on the concept and how it is linked with the above?

I learned about men and women from songs sung in taverns, and I learned about what being a villain really meant by allowing myself to lick the rabbits I should have been eating.

I had a feeling that you would bring back the cliche tavern. I was correct. Let me ask you, is it not common in fantasy literature that taverns are associated with gaining knowledge? It's a cliche.

By the time my father was done teaching me, any belief I may have had that what my parents did for a living was right, was gone. They were villains, and I didn’t have the heart to grow up and be like them, no matter how much I loved them.

And yet, Yazra herself is a villain (which was shown in part 1.) You really need to revise part 1 and make it more understandable. This is almost a contradiction because of part 1.

Three months before my eighteenth birthday, my mother and our shack were burned to the ground by a small army sent by a nearby lord my mother had hexed. My father cremated the remains of her body and buried them in the woods, under the concerned watch of myself and the flock of crows my mother had used for messengers.

Another cliche: The village/home being burnt down by solders/ army.

Maybe he should have mourned—maybe I should have too. My mother had been a witch, and she’d taught me about the birds and the bees; I knew death came for everyone. Besides, there was something so cliché about her death that I knew she went down cackling.

Yet Yazra's mother's point of view is a bit of a cliche itself, since her analogies do little to bring something new to the table. I think it's fitting that she gets a cliche death don't you? And while I'm on it, can you elaborate a bit further as to what is a cliche death? I know what you mean, but it needs some refinement.

Though not sad, my father was definitely not going to live without my mother. He went on a rampage very soon after, leaving me in the care of a baker and his wife. It was a devastating thing to hear about: town after town, and finally even a stronghold, were crushed under his heel. He somehow amassed under him in a few short months over a hundred men and rode across the country, gaining infamy as he went. It was only five months before the king himself lead an army to stop him. They say he was the last man fighting and that it took twenty men at once to stop him.

I know it was the way he wanted to go.

I read that and asked myself "why"? How come he is the last mind fighting and it required 20 soldiers to take him down? Over powered much? How come he is given such special treatment? Why can't the others require 20men to take down? Doing this is only an attempt to make your character "special" but it actually increases the mary-sueness of your character.

Yazra closed the diary and finished her mug of cider, mulling over the past in her mind. It seemed amazing, how her parent’s deaths weren’t sad in any way to her. To them, it had been just another part of living. They both would have told her how pleased they were to have such dramatic ends.

This is an interesting point, can you expand on this further? It seems very isolated with the plot. You need to work this more into the plot, or else it's just an info dump.

Their deaths taught me the last valuable lesson I would ever need to know: fear always turns to hate, and that is when a villain’s days become numbered.

Fear turns to hate is a cliche (star wars much?) Villain's days become numbered is also a cliche, as the saying that something is numbered is so greatly used, it's like breathing life into an already dead horse.

Overall impressions:

This is a bit better than part 1, but after reading this, Yazra is quite inconsistent because of part 1 itself. This part, Yazra's character is more stable, but I just can't help to think of all the jumble of ideas that was part 1. This is OK, but it doesn't really command my attention because of the following:

If I judged this part by itself, Yazra is actually not a very interesting character. There is hardly any emotion or thoughts in her actions in this part. There are some good points that you've made for Yazra, but the ideas aren't elaborated on and aren't tied well with the plot itself. Yazra's dialogue is also quite bland. It doesn't reflect her very well, but more like a typical teenage rpg character that hasn't undergone development. It's disappointing that little elaboration on the villiany vs denial theme is shown here.

Intertwining the plot with diary entries may reveal more on Yazra's back story, but the way that you executed it actually doesn't add more on Yazra. The diary entries are mostly info dumping on her past. It is info dumping as you are pretty much telling us her past, not showing it through writing conventions. It's a bit boring to read, slows the plot down and makes her seem more like whiny little brat. How am I supposed to like your characters later on in the story if you spoil the back-story to us so early? Oh yeah, the diary entries are also shallow, and lurks with cliches that represents poorly on Yazra's behalf. You need to elaborate more on what is in the diary entries, flesh them up, and make it more compelling than it is at the moment. After all, you are supposed to show the reader the personal conflict of Yazra trying to prevent herself from entering villany through denial. The diary entries need to show this interesting point, not be info dump and be reminiscent of a whiny teenage diary entry.

Hope this critique helped.

Andy.

Right, now to begin part two. Major flaw is as Andy says the inconstincies with Yazra. Now you make critique with questions so thanks.

Feedback questions

1) Does the boar seem like a boar? Do boars even growl? Does it seem intimidating/dangerous? I'm not that sure about boars you should probably look up boars on the net. Research them ya know

2) Again, where do you think the story could use more description? What did you think of what description is already there?
The way the guy acts is very cliche and reason for wanting to kill the boar is too. Plus I don't like you're lazy in describing her getting the needed stuff :/. I'd like to know more about setting and her looking for the plants etc.

3) Has your opinion/understanding of Yazra's personality changed? How?
In the first part she seemed more strong and able, now she seems less like that. More shallow and less interesting. She's beginning to seem like most anti-heroes now. You don't want this happening..

4) What do you think of her journal thus far (including part 1)? Any suggestions on how it could be improved? I defininetly think as Andy thinks you're spoiling too much too quickly. This is only part two and we know so much about her parents already. Not good .

5) How do you feel about the plot's movement?
My main issue is being lazy with her collecting plants. I want to know and see her doing just that. It's boring too ya maybe, but boring is good sometimes. Just research plants and tell us why she took so long. Write that bit.

6) Do you think the story would benefit by spending more time on Yazra's interaction with the boar? o be honest the animal isn't that interesting to me, been done so many times and too big a cliche to fix. Even if it's a different beast, still the same idea.

Overall, I prefer the first part, and think you need to really work on this part hard. Much more than the first part. So it has potential just work on it.

Edit: Also everytime a new person speaks double space, so once Yazra done speaking and guy speaking double space. Just remembered it. That's all.

Good luck
VSN

Hello!

Woo, you got Andy to critique. Nice! Now I won't have to worry about a whole lot.

The boar stood, [?] leaning heavily against a thick pine, its body heaving from the effort of breathing.

It would have been an execution, [no comma?] had Yazra not snuck up behind the man holding the spear and knocked him senseless with a heavy piece of wood.

and probably weighed [s]about [/s]as much as one.

Probably and about mean the same thing...?

A voice that sounded very much like her father’s urged her quickly to use the unconscious man as a shield while she finished off the boar.

Another, much like her mother's, told her to trust the forest.

The boar’s eyes were dark, dangerous, angry, [s]and[/s] yet also intelligent.

And yet also seemed too long of a time to get to intelligent, if you know what I mean.

hooves, she now noticed, that looked sharp, if that was even possible.

You can eat him later when he’s awake to appreciate it.”

I'd probably just delete that part. Took me a moment to figure out what you meant by it.

However, the boar seemed to understand it wasn’t going to get its [s]hoofs[/s] hooves on the man, and heavily dropped onto the forest floor.

“Why were you trying to kill this boar?” [s]She[/s] she asked quietly, getting up and gathering branches and twigs as she spoke.

“I-I wanted to be famous!” [s]He[/s] he wailed, obviously terrified out of his mind.

Once I got over that, though, my father began teaching me about survival.

In an earlier sentence, you had two commas like that. *shrug*

Over the three years I spent as his shadow, I learned about deceit, danger, death, destruction, and that the very nature of man is to, in some way or another, crush other men.

when he wanted to show me how to kill a man, he found a body, handed me a weapon, and showed me where to stab.

If you haven't seen my edit of my crit for the last part, I mentioned using she'd and he'd almost too much.

Feedback questions
1) Does the boar seem like a boar? Do boars even growl? Does it seem intimidating/dangerous?
2) Again, where do you think the story could use more description? What did you think of what description is already there?
3) Has your opinion/understanding of Yazra's personality changed? How?
4) What do you think of her journal thus far (including part 1)? Any suggestions on how it could be improved?
5) How do you feel about the plot's movement?
6) Do you think the story would benefit by spending more time on Yazra's interaction with the boar?

1. I was a bit unsure about growling boars. I didn't know how to comment at that point in the story, but I looked into it. You could use snort or grunt. Maybe they rumble in their throat or something. Growl sounds a bit too much like a bear. Oh, and it may be a bit more intimidating if you had it lower its head and get ready to charge at the man and severely wound them with their tusks (males, anyway. Females just run up and bite them?), rather than have it nose to nose? Since boars charge the attackers, not stare them down.

(Woo, wikipedia! )

2. It's probably just me because I was all excited about seeing the boar in action now and how it would differ from the bear, but I thought it was fine. I may be because I kinda read this before too, so I had a bit of background with it?

3. Yazra has kind of changed, yes. She seemed a bit more controlling and strong. I don't think she changed dramatically in her actions, really. I thought she built on them, standing up against a boar when a good number of people would just run away or cower in fear (hence the man). She shows a bit of her father (from what I know about him), as well as her mother. I don't see too much of a problem. However, Andy is much better at character development than I am.

4. There's some info-dumping that I would approve on and this is one of them. She's writing in a journal and you're showing us what she's writing. HOWEVER, I won't accept it (that sounded a bit harsh...sorry ) if the information is not necessary for the rest of the story. If you're going to foreshadow with the bees and birds or the wolves and rabbits or something like that, I won't have a problem. Just as long as the information you give us is valuable.

5. Having been an older reader, I kind of know how the plot begins to develop (unless you changed it completely). I actually think you're doing fine with it. Her diary entries are quite long, but I'm assuming it's 'cause she's in a forest with nothing better to do. (I'm surprised her hand doesn't cramp up She's my idol). Btw, I think her journal entries outweigh the story itself so far. That's not entirely good.

6. I'm surprised Andy didn't mention the boar. You'll have much more time later to incorporate interaction between the two (hopefully). I actually like the boar idea, especially 'cause it's a boar now. They're not exactly a pretty animal, you know? I'm excited about that. You can definitely pull off a few cutesy scenes between them if you'll keep them together. *looks hopeful*

Comparative Feedback Questions (for older readers)
1) Bear is now a boar. Opinions? Does he still feel like a bear?
2) Having separate threads for each part is working for me (and I have lots of points I may as well use =P). Hows about you?

I feel special to answer these questions.

1. I answered this in the above questions, but I think you're brave to use a boar. It's not exactly a gorgeous animal, and not a lot of people are fans of them. Though Snoink might say something about that, seeing as she likes piggies. ^_^ If you use my suggestions with "grunting," that might help. And the "charging". Wikipedia will help loads, even though I hate researching there. It's just too convenient to ignore. If I didn't say already, I like the change.

2. It's much easier to follow, though I liked that other system you had as well. However, seeing as it's working for you and you've received complaints about the other method, I think you should stick with separate threads. I wouldn't make Rewrite threads unless it's necessary. You can always, as you know, edit your post here.

Sorry there's so many questions. =P Thanks for reading!

You're my favorite person ever for giving questions, though. It makes my overall summary so much easier. ^_^

I hope I helped some. Keep writing!

Jabber, the One and Only!

A voice that sounded very much like her father’s urged she quickly to use the unconscious man as a shield while she finished off the boar. Another, much like her mothers, told her to trust the forest. The boar’s eyes were dark, dangerous, angry and yet also intelligent.

It emitted a low grumbling sound and turned its head away, beginning to lick at its wound.

I’m not quite sure a boar would lick its wounds. But maybe it would… Perhaps it nosing the wound would be better.

Yazra closed the diary and finished her mug of cider, mulling over the past in her mind.

So what happened to the boar?


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Feedback questions
1) Does the boar seem like a boar? Do boars even growl? Does it seem intimidating/dangerous?

The boar seems a little too much like the bear. Do a little research on boars and pigs in general and perhaps add some more pig-like behaviors. It really doesn’t seem dangerous because it seems to back off quite quickly when Yazra appears. It really never does anything dangerous. It just glares at the man, just roars… I’m not sure how graphic you want to get, but you could at least have perhaps it chasing Yazra or something before it calms down… I dunno… It just seems a little too easy.

2) Again, where do you think the story could use more description? What did you think of what description is already there?

I felt a little cheated of description here. You have things happening: describe them. Tell us what the boar is doing to get at the man/what the man is doing to avoid the boar. Stuff like that…

3) Has your opinion/understanding of Yazra's personality changed? How?

She seems a bit weaker in this part. She’s more stable, but a bit boring. She doesn't do much and her dialogue is a bit flat.

4) What do you think of her journal thus far (including part 1)? Any suggestions on how it could be improved?

It appears to be a bit of an info-dump. Maybe, instead of having so many journal entries, to focus more on the boar and all that, then later have more journal entries and reminiscing as the story actually progresses.

5) How do you feel about the plot's movement?

It’s broken up a great deal by the journal entries. See above note from me.

6) Do you think the story would benefit by spending more time on Yazra's interaction with the boar?

Yes!

Comparative Feedback Questions (for older readers)
1) Bear is now a boar. Opinions? Does he still feel like a bear?

I like the idea of a boar. It is a bit more of an original animal to use, since it hasn’t be done many times before. I just couldn’t help thinking of the boar god in ‘Princess Mononoke’ though… Inspiration? Or coincidence?

2) Having separate threads for each part is working for me (and I have lots of points I may as well use =P). Hows about you?

Works fine for me! Just remember to PM me!

Nice work. You get some great critiques. *am a little jealous*

*applause*

~Gryphonfledgling

Wow Keek, you get reviews fast! *jealous*

Anyways, sorry I'm so late. >.< I meant to crit earlier, but I've been busy... well, as the other critiquers have covered, like, all of it, I'll just give you some general impressions.

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Feedback questions
1) Does the boar seem like a boar? Do boars even growl? Does it seem intimidating/dangerous?

The boar seems kind of boar-like. I don't think boars growl, though. Here's an article on wild boars -- I'm pretty sure the information is reliable.

As for being intimidating and dangerous... well, not really. You might want to describe how it smells, the gleam in it's eyes as it looked at the man, the sinewy muscles bulging under it's bristly pelt. To make it seem more real, more frightening, you know?

2) Again, where do you think the story could use more description? What did you think of what description is already there?

There's a good amount of description here. I could picture everything clearly in my head, except for maybe the boar. But I already pointed that out.

As for the existing description, it's pretty good. There is more adjectives than metaphors & similes -- maybe a few of those wouldn't hurt, especially in the part where she meets the boar -- and in a few places, the descriptions were a bit stiff. But that's okay. I think the other critiquers already got those points, though.

3) Has your opinion/understanding of Yazra's personality changed? How?

I'm not sure. After reading Andy's (Dream of the Fayth) review, I couldn't help but agree with him -- it does seem a little of a typical teenage whiny thing. Overall though, it doesn't bother me.

4) What do you think of her journal thus far (including part 1)? Any suggestions on how it could be improved?

Again, Andy has a valid point when he says that they are kind of info-dumps. I didn't find them boring to read -- Yazra has a great personality -- but you could use more conventions, if that makes sense.

5) How do you feel about the plot's movement?

I like the plot very much. I am paricularly interested with Yazra's past and boar. There are some clichés, as Andy pointed out, but aside form that: very good!

6) Do you think the story would benefit by spending more time on Yazra's interaction with the boar?

YES! I am really fascinated with the boar (great idea for changing it to a boar, by the way) and I think the story would benefit if you elaborated on this aspect of the story. =]

Comparative Feedback Questions (for older readers)
1) Bear is now a boar. Opinions? Does he still feel like a bear?

Not really. I mean, just a bit, but you could make it less so by adding more description of the boar.

2) Having separate threads for each part is working for me (and I have lots of points I may as well use =P). Hows about you?

It's working really well for me. Now I don't have to print it out to critique.

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Now, for my *advice*

A voice that sounded very much like her father’s urged he quickly to use the unconscious man as a shield while she finished off the boar. Another, much like her mothers, told her to trust the forest. The boar’s eyes were dark, dangerous, angry and yet also intelligent.

Whether it was to appease her father, the boar, or to remove the temptation of listening to her father, Yazra kicked away the unconscious man who lay at her feet.

“Hold still,” she ordered the boar, using her mother’s commanding tone. She kept her eyes locked with the beast’s as she slowly reached for the spear. The boar growled menacingly. Yazra sighed.

“This is pretty bad, you know. The spear will slowly tear you apart, and you’ll die a slow and painful death. If you let me pull it out now, maybe I can help you.”

Yazra didn’t expect the boar to understand her words, but she trusted that it would hear her voice and understand she wanted to help. For a long moment the boar continued to growl, but the sound receded and finally stopped.

Yazra gently took hold of the end of the spear, shifting her body so the spear would come out the same way it had gone in and do the least damage. It was only a hand's width into the boar’s side, and judging from the amount of blood that stained its fur, the spear hadn’t been in very long.

“One…. two…. three…”

I feel like this could be bettered with more imagery of the bear. Try something like this:

"Hold still," she ordered the boar, using her mother's commanding tone. She kept her eyes locked on the beast's, despite the shiver of fear that crawled down her spine; it's gaze was hard and black, like basalt.

You know?

Yazra frowned and looked up, seeing the boar had its maw open so the man could get a good look at its tusks.

What does the boar's maw look like?

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So that's it! I'm really sorry for the bad crit -- I'll make a better effort next time to get to reviewing earlier. ^_~

Good luck, and keep writing! I love this story.

Cheers,
Camille

PS. I want to be on the revision list! =P

*dies and goes to heaven with a smile when she sees the amazing crits she's got*

Hope this critique helped.

Amazingly helpful. Thanks so much for reading this! XD With your advice (which actually then went on to prompt other people to give more critical advice) I am going to do some work on Yazra's character as well as rewrite the prologue from scratch (with the original as a sort of guideline). ^_^ Merci beaucoup! You've been very helpful.

You're my favorite person ever for giving questions, though. It makes my overall summary so much easier. ^_^

Honestly, I am loving that I ask questions too. =P It's a (hugely effective, as I see) way of getting feedback on the things you're not sure about. =P I keep reading people's answers and patting myself on the back for asking. Everyone should do it!

Nice work. You get some great critiques. *am a little jealous*

Wow Keek, you get reviews fast! *jealous*

*bows* I bow not because I think I deserve all the attention I've been getting, but because I am humbled and awed by all the help and support I've been getting. You guys are the best. Thank you all so much!

^_^ Keek!

I would like to elaborate further into the flaws of intertwining your diary entries with the actual writing itself. I didn't mention it in the 1st post in this thread, as it was when I was at school that I had thought of this. Your diary entries is a major flaw in this piece, and I'll explain why.

Let's say a fictional character writes a diary entry. But wouldn't the diary entry itself be crappy if the fictional character has not been trained/ educated in creative writing?
To actually remedy the crappy writing, you would actually have to write the diary entry through your own point of view and with your own skill and talent in creative writing. Yet, if you were to do that, then it would be inconsistent with your character and it won't be a faithful representation of him/her.

You as the author would then have to write to suit your character's style of writing, which means that not only would the writing in the diary be dumbed down, you won't be able to express your own style and emotions into the fantasy. What's the point of even trying to make an effort into the piece if some of the writing itself is dumbed down and not a true representation of yourself?

For Yazra to be able to write well in a diary, you need to show that she has some creative writing knowledge or is good in creative writing (something along those lines). From what is shown in the diary, it really shows that Yazra is a typical whiny brat, and therefore inconsistent with the "villainy vs denial theme" that was shown in part 1. This in turn makes your entire story kinda shallow and typical.

Have a think about it.

Andy.

Let me first say how I will only be saying my opinion as the grammar sees to have been more or less done.

I thought this was a excellent followup to the first one, and I thought this was great. Nothing cliche about it either, and let me congragulate you on how fantastic you have pieced everyinthg together!

This is a great story you have going and I love it when people get original ideas like this

Feedback Questions
1) Does the boar seem like a boar? Do boars even growl? Does it seem intimidating/dangerous?
2) Again, where do you think the story could use more description? What did you think of what description is already there?
3) Has your opinion/understanding of Yazra's personality changed? How?
4) What do you think of her journal thus far (including part 1)? Any suggestions on how it could be improved?
5) How do you feel about the plot's movement?
6) Do you think the story would benefit by spending more time on Yazra's interaction with the boar?

1) Yes! Very believable. That's a marvellous trait to have.
2) Nothing really, your stlye is unique and I like it.
3) No. Always full of surprises and clearly very clever. She is likable, certainly.
4) Hm, it is a difficult thing to dow ehn you write a ficitional diary. Make sure it isn't just a diary when you fill dates, times, and every little detail in. Just a thought.
5) I really like it! Not much else to add!
6) Perhaps. The boar interests me and I would ike to know more.

There's not much more to say, just...

Keep Writing!

~D'Aedomir~

Thanks Andy and Aedomir. I've been thinking about the journal thing a lot, and hopefully when I redo this it will be better.

^_^

(OMG! 6 gold starts!! !!!)

A good addition. I'm wondering what this has to do with the first prologue, but I guess I'll just have to keep reading to find out.

Few mistakes here and there. Oh, and did Yazra's mother teach her how to read and write? Might want to put that in there somewhere. I got the impression that she had a rough childhood, and wasn't much of a book-learner.

Okay, I know this is kind of retarded (the retarded part being that there is no critique), but I wanted to get this down before I forgot.

On Boars

I am pretty sure that boars do not growl, they do snort.



Ta,
Cal.

>.< Thanks, I suspected that. *goes off to research boars*

Ok, I have a small point.

My father cremated the remains, under the concerned eye of myself and the flock of ravens...

If the hut burned down with Mom in it, Dad wouldn't have to cremate her.