Various dialogue extracts for approval

This user has been banned and her works removed from YWS.

Hiya! Decided to take up your challenge and rip your plan-type-thing to shreds (although, in fairness, it's not really a 'challenge' as ripping to shreds is how I review! ). Don't worry about reviewing in return; a) I'm an awful writer, and b) I only have one poem on this account, anyway

Alors! We shall begin. *pulls her signature pastel pink, glass nibbed fountain pen from her skirt pocket*

- = - = - = - = -

Scene 1

Scene 1

Just joking! *giggles*

As did Helen:

When you use semi-colons (which are the two dots on top of each other, 'cause I can't think of a better way to describe them...), try and only place them before a list. The punctuation mark you need here is the colon (this thing: ; ), which is the effect I reckon you were after. I tend to abuse the colon, myself. *sigh*

‘But she laughs at me! They ALL (put emphasis on the word all) laugh at me. They think, "Foolish man – boy, even – what will he do with himself?" They think, "Is he so easily satisfied? Does he go to bed with a contented heart and mind?" He doesn’t! I don’t! I toss and I turn with it. I rack my brains with ideas, ideas of how I [s]might[/s] (this might just be me, but the word 'might' seems a little out of place. What about 'can'?) please your family.’

If ya haven't noticed already, I've made the corrections within the quote. The words in italics are my comments.

‘Oh, like (put emphasis on this word) ? Yes they like me well enough. As they like a clown, their fool to be petted. I am liked till the cows come home, but so what? I am not respected. I am not valued. I am the prized idiot.’

Apart from the question mark, this was VERY good. You got his anguish across v. well, and I'm already on his side. Nice one! *thumbs up*

‘What do you want, Tic? To be revered?’

OK, I'm wasting space now. But that made me laugh.

‘Stop calling me that! [s]I[/s] I've always hated it. [s]I[/s] I've never wanted to be anything but James. I only let you call me [s]by it[/s] that for I feared to displease you otherwise.’ His voice [s]became[/s] (leave this word out) hardened.

Children are cruel – ruthless, insensitive, naïve [s]as well[/s] (the 'as well' ruins the lovely pace you've got rolling).

Overall comments on Scene 1:
Your dialogue was really good, on the whole; what on earth are you on about? You made Tic come across as you wanted, which I *think* is as insecure and upset, and the other girl (at least, I think it's a girl?!) as mature, sensible, and really rather clever. I love them both as characters already... and you haven't even started describing them! Don't start getting all modest on me when I say this, but VERY few writers have the talent to pull that off. I applaud you. *applauds you*

- = - = - = - = -

Scene... 2? Or 1 in more detail? *confused*
(It says Scene 1 on it.)

The room was in a holy state of quiet, the rest of the world and the other people, outside the room and closed door, were for the while non-existent, or so it seemed: Laura heard nothing save May's irrepressible sobs, like involuntary spasms, and saw nothing but May's shaking frame against the wall.

You realise that this is a whole sentence? It spans a short paragraph! I'm not immune to doing similar things (I dare you to read the story I'm about to post and not get lost), but the earlier you learn to catch paragraph-sentences before they slip by, the better.

*looks at sentence she has just typed*

Anyway. What you should do is, once you've finished, stop yourself proof-reading it straight away and leave it for a few days. When you come back, you will be viewing it in almost the same light as a first-time reader would be.

Here's me taking a stab at chunking it up a bit: The room was in a holy state of quiet; the rest of the world and the other people, outside [s]the room and[/s] closed doors, were for the while non-existent... or so it seemed. Laura heard nothing save May's irrepressible sobs, like involuntary spasms, and saw nothing but May's shaking frame against the wall.

I'm not sure if you can clearly see all the punctuation I've added, but I've put it in bold just in case.

That was all she got, [s]and the sight of[/s] and then her daughter [s]pacing[/s] paced forwards, [s]then[/s] to the side, and finally [s]despairingly collapsing[/s] collapsed in despair onto the sofa. It was alarming, sporadic; but in a world of dramatics, Laura did not even blink.

I've edited most of it in-quote, but there's one piece of advice I learnt really early on that I need to share with the world, and it is thus: try your hardest to never use words that end in 'ly', unless there honestly is no alternative (for example, 'unfortunately' or 'seriously'). It clogs up the 'flow' of any piece of writing if it's ill used, and unfortunately, your 'despairingly' was no exception. It drew my attention away from the story entirely (yes, I'm doing it on purpose *laughs*). If you want, I can give you the article that gave me all these bits of advice I'm sharing with you - just PM me once you've read this.

The carpet on which she knelt [s]was[/s], like most things of the house, was of a gaudy, pretentious pattern; [s]and[/s] colours once vivid, but [s]had[/s] grown faded with age.

I'm not sure if I've edited this quote properly, as the sentence here was very confusing to read. However, that's my stab - if you only choose to do one thing, move the was from in front of 'like most things of the house' to behind it. It made the sentence a LOT clearer.

She told herself, ----> [ i ]one day I will have it torn up.[/ i ]

To make it clearer that she is thinking this, and that it isn't a part of the narration, put her thoughts into italics. All you have to do is delete the spaces

but she turned her face from her mother's [s]constant[/s] strokes

Nah - constant doesn't fit into the picture you're building up here. Think more along the lines of 'gentle'.

Now she lay pressed against the sofa's back, smelling old musky scents, slowly ceasing to cry, and instead the sniffs and snuffles broke out.

Uh... this particular sentence really confused me. The wording is quite awkward, here. I'll go through each of the 'anomalies' in turn for you to alter in your own time.

smelling old musky scents: I think you should just leave this out, or combine it with the previous sentence, like 'now she lay pressed against the sofa's old, musky back'. The words sound quite poorly thrown together (aaaaah, I sound so harsh, I'm sorry!).

ceasing: this word, basically, doesn't work here. It's not because of your vocab - cease is a strong word - but because of the context you've used it in. Generally, you don't 'cease' crying, as the word 'cease' means to come to an abrupt stop. Imagine a car slamming down on the emergency brakes because it's about to fall off a cliff... and there you go. If somebody ceased crying, you'd often find it with the word 'sudden' in front of it - catch mah drift? Anyway, you've already told us that she's beginning to calm down - you don't need to say it a second time.

and instead the sniffs and snuffles broke out: This sounds mean. I know. But it has to be said. May is human... not a little piglet! *laughs* This sentence makes me imagine a cute lil' baby pig snifflin' and snufflin' round it's pen... and I don't think that's quite the effect that you were after. Eh? In my humble opinion, scrap this and add something else. Maybe, "and soon, she was only sniffing into the cushions."

Her mother[s]'s voice[/s] said

It says exactly the same thing without "'s voice". Golden rule of writing - precise and spare.

Why else would you come here, to the library[s],[/s] where you know I often am, and cause such a scene?

Hmm - not sure if you can see what I've done, but I've basically gotten rid of the comma between library and where. There were too many stop-starts in that sentence.

You were always quite different to us, us shy and retiring types - and then whoosh, off you went; off you flew, to London.

Spelling error in this quote *points*

'I'm not cold. I'll just have no nonsense. You are so [s]self-important[/s], do you know that?'

You've used that word once already - change it this time. Try 'self-righteous', 'proud' or 'haughty'.

'Because you kept a distance, forgot or shut us out like poor relations, and coming back, treated us with the kid-gloves. You came here in the mindset that you were better than us, no doubt about it. You came here with your journalistic sneer and you haven't lost it all the while.

This paragraph is very confusing, and I think it's equal parts punctuation and off-wording this time round. I'll take a stab at what I think this paragraph should (roughly) look like, but I don't actually understand the first sentence...

"While you were away, you kept your distance - forgot us, or shut us out like unwanted relatives - and coming back, you've treated us with the kid gloves. You came with a mindset of superiority to us, no doubt about it. You came here with your journalistic sneer and you haven't lost it all the while.
(What exactly ARE kid-gloves? *laughs*)

She said, "May is changed."

Now I'm going to leave this alone, because I think you meant to use the word 'is' (everyone's speaking old English, here). However, if you didn't mean to, then heads up!

'The sniffs and snuffles were replaced with an anguished wail. ‘You have always disliked me, Mother. I don’t know if it’s envy or…’

Get rid of quotation mark at the beginning of this paragraph - it's not meant to be there. 'Sniffs and snuffles' work well here! When I read 'I don't know if it's envy', I felt like hitting her. No WONDER the mother is being so cold towards her! Pff, if she was my kid, she'd be out the door before she'd have time to finish the sentence.

‘Don’t be pompous, then! [s]Don’t be self-important.’[/s]

The 'don't be pompous then' is REALLY good on its own.

And here – here you slander me again.

'Here' isn't the best word to use, but I'm not sure what else fills the gap. Maybe just run the two bits together without the 'here's - so "And again, you slander me."
I have to say though - I was upset having to stop and correct this bit. The tension you were building between the two was very realistic, and you could feel it radiating off the page - or rather, screen. Your dialogue is brilliant; it's your narration that needs work. What a paradox, eh?

She looked down, at nothing in particular, and stood, dizzily, as if energy had escaped with her tears. Past Laura she stepped, and to an empty space, feeling that she really ought to sit down but stubbornness was a key part of her.

This is exactly what I mean. Your keeness to keep the narration true to the olde-style English dialouge is causing you to write sentences that don't actually make real sense. I'm going to do another re-write for you.

She looked down at nothing in particular, and stood, feeling dizzy, as if her energy had escaped with her tears. She stepped past Laura into an empty space, and felt as if she ought to sit back down; but stubbornness kept her from doing so.

The 'was a key part of her' was what threw me the most, along with 'past laura she stepped'. This isn't a very dramatic moment, even if they are having an argument - such sentence arragements make it look as though you're trying far too hard - and destroys all the work that's gone into the wonderful dialouge.

Curtly, the answer was ‘Would it make any difference if I was?’

Again, the sentence structure of the narration is way off par. Don't bother with narration here; just have the dialouge. It'll read much better.

She couldn’t help it. A titter left Laura’s mouth.

Major micro anti-climax. (That sentence made sense, man.) If I were you, I'd flip them round and shorten them into one sentence.

A titter escaped from Laura's mouth. She couldn't stop herself. May stood rigid in [s]alarm[/s] response (?), and turned towards her mother.

‘Why were you in such a state?’

Add 'Laura asked'. Because it's come off the end of May's reaction, we think that it's May speaking.

‘I suppose you wouldn’t believe me if I said [s]it[/s] nothing really?’

Come on, we’ve had the [s]theatricals[/s] theactrics now.

‘[s]Honestly[/s]? Where’s the fun in honesty?’

I don't know if you meant to say it or not, but replace 'honestly' with 'honesty'. It makes it more cheeky.

‘Likewise, where’s the point in [s]lies[/s]?’

Not lies, if we're talking about virtues, because 'lie' is a noun, whilst 'honesty' isn't. I think 'deception' would fare better in it's place.

and told herself that next time trousers would be more appropriate

I think in the olden days, they had an 's' on the end, too. *giggles*

Again woozy in the amber light of the hanging lamp, she stepped towards May, not hesitating to fold her into [s]maternal[/s] (LAURA is the mother, not May! Therefore May's arms CANNOT be maternal.) arms.

OK - woah. They were fighting a moment ago. How do they suddenly make up like that in the middle of an argument? Either that's some serious mother-daughter love goin' on there (that the world hasn't caught onto yet), or you might have forgotten to give us a little detail that you can see in your mind's eye.
Unfortunately, we can't see into that mind's eye, so you have to enlighten us... without going into too much detail. There's a delicate balance between the two that, once mastered, gain you access to Waterstones.
(Or more respect for your writing, at least.)

‘Tic?’ Laura couldn’t help but smile, [s]which she overcame quickly[/s]. ‘What about Tic?’

'Which she overcame quickly' contradicts the phrase before. If you can't help but smiling, you don't overcome the urge, you yield to it. Catch mah drift? However, you could say:

Laura couldn't help but smile, but quickly schooled her face into a neutral/impassive expression.

You can choose between 'neutral' and 'impassive'; both mean exactly the same thing when it comes to faces.

‘There’s no point in eluding the truth. I’ve rather fallen for him.’

*gasps* Woah - NEWFLASH!! When did THAT happen!? OOOOHH, major drama, people!! *rushes off to next paragraph*

With sincere interest, Laura asked, ‘You mean, in love?’

Flip the dialogue and narration around. So, "You mean, in love?" Laura asked with a sincere interest.

‘Well,’ remarked Laura, looking dazed for a moment.

It was bald, bold, brash.

No, it was not bald. Sentences do not have hair (or lack of). *laughs* Cut it back to simply, "It was a brash statement." / "It was a bold statement."

Yes, I know. Oh God. [s]Fuck[/s].

NO. The swear word alienates this sentence to the tenth dimension. You could simply repeat 'oh God', but no way does that swear word work! Here's the reasoning: because of the politeness of the rest of your dialogue, any vulgarness you use will be ridiculously out of place with the rest of the story. It's almost like having a story written in the 5th century and then suddenly introducing the iPod. Only amateurs do such things. *grins* (And you don't wanna be an amateur, do ya? ).

Tic, who was a peculiar child always – you would have found him charismatic and witty?

This sentence doesn't make too much sense - what is she asking the question about? Tic as a changed man, or Tic now, if May herself hadn't changed? I can't help change this in any way because I'm not sure what you mean - sorry...

‘If you think that, you don’t know your sister. Now, answer me; what are you going to do about Philip?’

The colon sets us up for a lovely little-cliff hanger.

.... wait, hang on. THAT WAS THE LAST QUOTE! WOOOOOOOO!!

I'm finished!! *sobs* I knew I shouldn't have taken this on so late... it's midnight! Ah well - nit-picky enough for ya, hun? I hope you enjoyed - or at least learnt a little something from - my horribly long review that rather easily beats the length of your story by, oh...

...a few miles?

And I'm looking forward to what happens next with this Phillip character; PM me when you get the following chapter up!

Well, I'm off. *cleans the glass nib of her pen, and then replaces the cap*

Ja -! <3

Okay, there's something I have to get out of the way before I start reviewing these two pieces, and that's a thought about posting random dialogue for public critiquing. And I'm going to try to be nice about this, because I hate it when people are jerks to me. But I wouldn't really go doing this. I know what you're thinking, "I'm having trouble with the dialogue in certain parts of this story or just dialogue overall, I'll get some opinions on this." And I'm not decrying that logic at all, it's very good logic. I have asked for help with snippets of dialogue before.

The thing is, I wouldn't go about doing it on the public forums. That's not because it's against the rules, but because of a reaction you're bound to come up with. Somebody is bound to come along and say, "Oh my goodness, this is lame, I don't understand a thing that's going on, this sucks!" Not that it does, I haven't read the two scenes yet, though I will, just bear with me. But no one wants a critique like that, especially one that completely undeserved and on something that is just an attempt by you to improve a portion of your writing that you know needs improvement anyway.

My advice? Have a couple of friends look over stuff like this in the future, like on IM or through a PM or something. I'm not saying that what you're doing now is a bad or stupid thing, I'm just telling you that there are better ways to do it.

There, got my little spaz out of the way. Let's get on to what matters, shall we?

So, Scene 1. The dialogue in this is pretty decent. I wouldn't go so far as to call it super stellar, but it's not as bad as a lot of stuff I've seen. The trouble with reviewing snippets of dialogue like this is that of context. You, the writer, know exactly what kind of context, or surrounding action and story, that this dialogue goes in. We, the readers, do not, and so we are left to guess.

His voice became hardened.

It was only at this point that I was sure of the genders of the two speakers. Until then, I thought that Tic was the girl. And, by the way, kudos for coming up with an interesting name like Tic. It's different, I like it, and I commend you for using it.

I think that this snippet was about Tic still harboring resentment for what people did to him when he was just a kid, at least, that's what I took away from the dialogue. And, because you want comments on the dialogue especially, I'll focus on that now.

I only let you call me by it for I feared to displease you otherwise.

This sentence doesn't work as dialogue. Don't get discouraged, it's the only one I found that doesn't. But it's awkwardly worded. No real person talks like this. Switch out the to for it would and it works though. Be mindful of having your characters talking above their station, speaking too properly if it isn't required, because this seems a result of that.

Scene 2 now.

'She had been a snob. I did nothing.'

Has, not had. Be mindful of your tenses, young Padawan.

'A snob! She had been Hattie, that it all.'

Again, has, not had. I only point these out because everything before and after these two sentences has been in the same tense. It is only these two sentences that have deviated from that, so I saw their tenses as out of place.

‘How about you stop playing with my head?’

May sighed and said, ‘Can you get up from the carpet? For decency’s sake.’

I know that one of these lines is Laura's, the mothers, and one is May's, the daughter's. But you need to tell us which. I got tied up in these lines of dialogue. It seems as though both of these lines need to be Laura's, because she isn't the one on the carpet, May is. It may just be a slip of the name though, I do not know.

All in all, the dialogue here seems a little better than the previous snippet. There were times where I think you got confused as to who was speaking, but you can probably fix that on your final edit through.

Wow, I do believe that this is the longest review I have ever given out. I hope that it was a helpful one. If you have any questions, or by chance if you want to run some more dialogue past me some time if I have been helpful here, just PM me and I will be very happy to help you. Good luck!

It was good. A bit dry. You were obviously shooting for a Jane Austen-style kind of dialogue.

‘Yes, I know. Oh God. Fuck. That’s why I feel so messed up. Aside from the small matter that this is Tic we’re talking about – my good friend, but not boyfriend material.’

What time period is? The characters speak as though they popped out of a Charles Dickens novel, but this sentence sounds extremely modern. Compared to the language in all of the other sentences, this seems out of place. All your other sentences are flowery and full of rich vocabulary. This is good though, I don't mean to sound rude.

Thanks for the very detailed critiques. I was a bit scared that you'd all hate it, with it being so out of context and so on. I see where you're coming from, Conrad Rice, about YWS not being the right place for this. Only thing is, I'm sure most of my friends would rather do anything that read this, ha ha.

mnesomeye - Yours was exceptionally helpful. I've been told time and time again about my over-writing. It's the curse of the kid who was bred on classics. Re-reading, I see some things worked and others I was like, "Whoa! What was I DOING?" This was all one logn draft I did at school, feeling hormonally charged and all that because I was near this boy I like desparately and he doesn't notice me, blahblahblah.

What exactly ARE kid-gloves? *laughs*)

Ah, where are you from? Over here in muddy Kent, we say it, at least. It sort of means (although, frankly, I'm not sure) to mollycoddle, to patronise? Treat like a kid. See?
Again, thank you for spending so much time on my angsty drivel.

Conrad Rice - Thanks. I know what you mean, and wasn't annoyed but a little embarrassed. I find I can't write the sort of cool, collected and modern stories that frequent this site, so ta for looking at it in context. I see a lot of it was muddled and, well, first-drafty.

Haruno Sakura - Thank you I was kind of trying to make the dialogue old-fashioned -- that's because I love that sort of speak and wish everyone spoke that way! Can I ask what you meant by dry? I tried awfully hard to make it emotional, so dry wasn't what I was going for. I'm a bit of a sap, really.

What time period is?

Modern day! I got this superb inspiration from Morag Joss to do a modern-day story in the old style. This novella is intended to be set in an old country house, set back from the appeals of modern society by its isolation and naive desire to never grow up, so to speak.