Young Writers Society

Does anyone else who was forced to read Lord of the Flies for their lit. class find it terribly sexist?

I mean, it's supposed to represent society, right? But it only really represents HALF of society because guess what, there are NO GIRLS ON THE ISLAND.

And the whole thing about killing the pig being a metaphor for rape is ridiculous to me... who would have the nerve to compare raping a woman to killing an animal? Does Golding think females are no more complex than animals, so he doesn't need to give any insight to how a GIRL would react to the rape? He only wants to show the sexual desires of the male characters, so apparently a pig is an easy substitute for a thinking feeling female character.

Weird book... >_<

I wasn't aware that the killing of the pig was a metaphor for rape. A pretty strange conclusion to come to, if you ask me.

And the reason that it's only boys on the island is because, stereotypically (don't forget, this was written in the fifties, or thereabouts, when stereotypes weren't so offensive as they are now) boys are the violent sex, when girls are generally peaceful. Having no girls on the island meant that the capacity for violence amongst the group became so much bigger, or something like that.

That's what I was told, anyway.

Yeah, I found it a strange conclusion to come to, too, but my teacher insisted that it was a metaphor for rape. And when I re-read the passages, it kinda made sense.

And I know it's sexist because of when it was written, but I mean, if it's supposed to be such a groundbreaking masterpiece, shouldn't it transcend the stereotypes of the time? Take To Kill a Mockingbird, for example. Harper Lee was from the south and probably grew up in a very racist and stereotypical environment, but she still broke down those stereotypes in her book.

Who told you the pig's death was a metaphor for rape?
EDIT: Ooh. Teacher. lol. I always am stunned when they come up with those things. I was told the pig's death was a sort of metaphor for the devil screwing with them. (see scene where Simon goes loco when he visits the pig's head on a stick)

I don't think the book is sexist at all. It's a story about what happens when a bunch of boys go wild. Obviously there are many metaphors and lots of symbolism. Sure, the author decided to focus his story on one particular sex, but to say the story is sexist is saying he went out to exclude women intentionally. Authors often have a preference to writing about their own sex because they know themselves better, and from a writer perspective the fact it's all boys is necessary to the plot. If there had been girls things would have gone much differently.

Though, about women being the more gentle, it's true. However they are also more vicious and subtle. To be honest, had it been all girls, there's a high probability far less of the would have survived the ordeal. Boys tend to group together in large clumps, rather than small cliques. And they're very blunt, whereas girls are far more tactful.

Anyways, I don't find the book to be sexist. It would be like saying a book about a bunch of girls from an al girl's school being kidnapped by pirates (actually a book I read) was sexist because all the men were pirates and all the girls were victims. It's just the way the book went, I didn't feel there was any malicious intent in the exclusion of women.

(Though it's possible the pig's death could be interpreted as a metaphor for rape, though in that case you'd have to realize it is just a metaphor. Just because the pig is an animal doesn't mean he's saying women are animals--especially considering the boys themselves were turning into animals.)

That's what I think, though it's been a while since I read the book and I was never one to over analyze things. If I was I wouldn't have been completely flabbergasted when people concluded that "Bridge to Tarebithia" was anti-Christ.

^_^ Keek!

I think you're missing the point - girls weren't left out of the book because Golding found them inferior. They weren't on the island because of the stereotypically violent nature of boys, the impact of which would have been considerably weakened had there been peace-keeping girls on the island.

I suppose what Golding may have been trying to show is that a society made up of one type of person cannot survive - an environment made up solidly of boys (ie. one type of person) eventually ensured the collapse of the society they had built, and the one person who was different (Piggy) ended up dead as a result. It shows how human society needs variation.

At least, that's my interpretation of it, and naturally it's very simplified. There's a lot more depth to it than that. Hope I helped, though!

-Kyle

EDIT:

Sleeping Valor wrote:Who told you the pig's death was a metaphor for rape?
EDIT: Ooh. Teacher. lol. I always am stunned when they come up with those things. I was told the pig's death was a sort of metaphor for the devil screwing with them. (see scene where Simon goes loco when he visits the pig's head on a stick)

That was what I was told as well. I'm thinking your teacher is wrong about that, Fireweed.

Hmm... Good points, for sure. I'm probably overreacting, lol. Thanks for making me re-think my position . though I'm still somewhat irked at the idea of the rape metaphor.

SV: You're right about the whole devil thing, but I think the pig symbolizes many different things in different parts of the book? But according to my teacher, the particular scene where they hunt down and kill the boar is supposed to be about their emerging sexuality and how had there been girls on the island, it would have driven them to violence. Which is is true, perhaps- I just don't think rape is as simple as killing an animal, is all. I just think it's a poor metaphor, if it is indeed a metaphor.

EDIT: Yeah, she could have been, or maybe there are just many interpretations?

Fireweed wrote:EDIT: Yeah, she could have been, or maybe there are just many interpretations?

Yeah, sure. That's the beauty with metaphor, and literary works as a whole - it's all open to interpretation.

The thing I love about metaphors and symbols, is they can be interpreted different ways. And since the truth is often about interpretation, what something means is entirely dependent on who is interpreting it. Like poetry. The only real way to know, is to ask the author. I don't know if anyone did, but I'd laugh pretty hard if he just said he'd written it all because he thought it would be a good story without any symbolism intended.

And I agree, if there had been girls on the island along with the boys there might have been more violence. They're young, but I can see that--since in that time women were still (?) housewifeish--there would have been a bit of a struggle to have more girls on your side, since the boys would think they could boss them around.

Glad we could help you out. ^_^ It's a good book if you don't bust your head on the symbolism.

lol. Yeah, killing the pig is a poor metaphor for rape. Though rape is violent and in some ways kills a person. But still.

Can anyone imagine that this guy sat down and decided that each and every element of his story had to have a symbolic meaning?? =P It seems like my teacher could come up with a significance for each and every little rock they touched. >_>

^_^Keek!

Sleeping Valor wrote:Can anyone imagine that this guy sat down and decided that each and every element of his story had to have a symbolic meaning?? =P It seems like my teacher could come up with a significance for each and every little rock they touched. >_>

^_^Keek!

Agreed! I think very few of the authors on these required reading lists actually intended to include so much metaphor and meaning behind what they wrote as we are forced to find. It would strip the enjoyment you get from writing away immediately, having to think up so many deep meanings and symbolic imagery.

Lol, yes! Once my class was discussing "Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening" By Robert Frost, and everyone kept claiming the woods symbolized death or suicide or sex or something. Honestly I just think it's a simple, pretty poem about pausing from work... XD

There's another really logical reason for there only to be boys on the island. From what I understood, they were from a private boarding school. Especially when this was written, boarding schools in England were not co-ed.

Finally found my copy of LOTF... in the back there's and epilogue-type-thing of notes analyzing the writing. It says "the killing of the sow is accomplished in terms of sexual intercourse." Of course, these aren't Golding's own words, so I guess it's a matter of opinion... *shrugs* but if you read the actual passage alot of the language is pretty suggestive.

The characters in the book are just a result of Golding's own perspectives and from the time he lived in. The book was supposed to be about society and about how it functions in pure nature, outside of social constructs and the like. The boys are supposed to represent "man". Using boys doesn't necessarily mean that he thought males were superior to females. And it's not like the boys all think the same--the characters themselves display a lot of variety despite all having Y chromosomes; compare Ralph, Jack, Piggy, and Simon.
Apparently there was a book written about a bunch of girls who find themselves stranded on an island with no adults. Obviously they're a very different group to study, as girls tend to be more manipulative and discreet in their fights, rather than boys, who are more inclined to start throwing punches, or, you know, throw each other off of cliffs.

That said, it was still a pretty cruddy book.

I think you're making much ado about nothing...

Here here! Thanks Nate. Lets just read and enjoy!