Young Writers Society

Hey guys,

I thought it would be interesting to get everyone's insight and ideas on this. What, in your opinion, makes a great book? I'm talking about the grab-you-at-the-throat, can't put it down, read through the night, thriller. The books that we're always talking about like Harry Potter and Twilight, why are they so special? Is it character development? Making the characters believable and able to relate to? Is it the plot line? Is it action from the very beginning? I think that once we discover what makes a great book, we can begin to write great books of our own.

So what are your thoughts?

I think what makes a great book varies from book to book.

Harry Potter is special because of the world building, I think. It's funny and self-referential. I mean, face it, the basic plot of the Harry Potter series is pretty weak, but the world and (some of) the characters are so great. I love the references to Muggle understandings of witches and wizards and other magical things.

Tithe is amazing because of the characters. Take out Roiben and Kaye, replace them with a generic faerie knight and human girl, and suddenly Tithe is a whole hell of a lot less interesting. It's interesting to see a modern take on an old-school faerie tale, too.

&c.
What I really pay attention to is the character development and symbolism. That's what I usually look for in a good/great book, but what makes or breaks the greatness depends on the book itself.

Well, it is all in opinion and preference, to get right down to it.

It isn't what is in the book but what you like in a book, and this is different for every person.

I like...such a wide variety that it is impossible today. Books with wild plots are exciting, and books with off-beat characters are great too, but I'll read anything if it sounds of interest, no matter what is inside those covers. For me it's what the book is about, but even then the author can do something to ruin it, like talk to much in narration, or have really bad dialog, or use cliches, or anything.

But... I don't really know what makes a book good...It's all in what you want to read, and what you like, right? I can't pinpoint specifics.

I think you're right Claudette. But there is the odd book that flies off the shelves. I was wondering why people think it does. I've always prided myself on being a good observer, and if I watch something long enough, I can usually copy it pretty well, if there's a recipe to it. I've noticed a few consistencies to these sort of books, but I was wondering if anyone else's observations would line up with my own. You are mainly right, there are great books for different people. But then one comes along that seems to cover all the genres and get everyone interested. What are some of the titles that we all recognize? There's, as I said before, Harry Potter, I think Twilight was a pretty big hit, and the Inheritance Trilogy (Most of you probably know that the author of that one was 16 when he began writing that) Has anyone noticed any similarities between these sort of books? I thought I'd clarify that this is the kind of thing I had in mind when I said great books. Just curious!!

PS thanks for the feedback!!

ah you are looking for similarities, well, it is really easy to do that one.

What are all those books? Best sellers. Even look outside of YA (I don't know much YA, as I don't read it) and you have Dean Koontz, Stephen King, etc. They are all best sellers.

Now you could certainly ask me 'why are they best sellers?' but that question is unbelievably stupid. I'll answer it. This is how a best seller happens: The publishing company notices that the book sells really well, and has a very large fan base/could have a very large fan base (this fan base is often times comprised of people who can't write, and so, are saps for bad writing). So, the publisher pays more to get the book in advertisements, and talked about, and possible movies, and on the best seller list, and in the rack at the front of the store, until every one but you has read it, and you get into reading it. Then, with Dean Koontz, etc, the publishers make contracts and say "write two novels a year and get this much money" the books are forced out, become total crap.

They are only popular/best sellers because of "the system". You know when you see those shelfs at the front of the store that say "best reads"? or something? Well, and this isn't all stores but the major chains in America, that space is bought by the publisher; it has nothing to do with the actual book, but rather the marketing of the book.

In the end, it's all green paper that makes it a good book.

This might just be me, but I love a book with a few great fight scences, believable and likebale characters, death of a character or two (usually if it is someone you weren't expecting to die it makes it better). There has also got to be a very creative and original storyline.

Claudette wrote:ah you are looking for similarities, well, it is really easy to do that one.

What are all those books? Best sellers. Even look outside of YA (I don't know much YA, as I don't read it) and you have Dean Koontz, Stephen King, etc. They are all best sellers.

Now you could certainly ask me 'why are they best sellers?' but that question is unbelievably stupid. I'll answer it. This is how a best seller happens: The publishing company notices that the book sells really well, and has a very large fan base/could have a very large fan base (this fan base is often times comprised of people who can't write, and so, are saps for bad writing). So, the publisher pays more to get the book in advertisements, and talked about, and possible movies, and on the best seller list, and in the rack at the front of the store, until every one but you has read it, and you get into reading it. Then, with Dean Koontz, etc, the publishers make contracts and say "write two novels a year and get this much money" the books are forced out, become total crap.

They are only popular/best sellers because of "the system". You know when you see those shelfs at the front of the store that say "best reads"? or something? Well, and this isn't all stores but the major chains in America, that space is bought by the publisher; it has nothing to do with the actual book, but rather the marketing of the book.

In the end, it's all green paper that makes it a good book.

This is a very interesting view point, Claudette. So, you're suggesting that any book is potentially a best seller, but what really makes or breaks it is whether they happened to get a good publisher who pays for the publicity, and, in essence, any book is just as good as the best seller, but most weren't fortunate enough to snag the right publisher/agent.

I enjoyed reading that, and the only point I have is that when I read books that are advertised as best seller, usually, to me and my friends anyway, they are very good books, better than the ones that aren't best sellers. I definitely see what you mean, but I'm not quite sure if I yet agree.

What I think makes a great book is to have good character, and setting development, so that they seem real. The book has to be able to pull you in and put you in the character shoes, as if you were there. I also think that the story should have a good plot, making you want to read more into the story to see what happens next.

YES MEEP HIT NAIL ON HEAD with why Harry Potter is so likable: because it exists in such an intriguing world. I think that the setting of the book should be so well done that the reader can imagine themselves walking through it (whether or not they really want to is another matter). It draws people into the world of the book and then when the characters mesh perfectly with the world, batta bing, batta boom, I think it rocks. Of course, there has to be plot and dialouge can't be cheesy (they can't just stand perfectly in their perfect world saying "I like skittles" all day), but the setting is always the first thing I look for in a good book.

To me a great book is something that you can fall into, just head over heals. I don't think it's a matter of how long the book is, if it's written in 1st, or 3rd person, ect... It think it's a matter if the writer believes, and lives it. If they can't believe/live it, then they can't pull the emotion out that is necessary to build a good story. If they don't believe it, then neither will we as writers. Emotion: confusion, excitement, anger ect... makes a good story. Without emotions it just becomes dry.

Since this post has been revived, I will tell you what I have observed. I mentioned earlier that I am a good observer, and if I'm watching something, I am normally observing how its done. Keep in mind that this is what I've noticed in books that I've really like, and is purely my opinion, and I could very well be wrong. So far, I have noticed a pattern.

1. The main character begins normal. This means no special abilities, nothing to really set him/her apart from those around them. This is important because, from the beginning, the reader can identify with the character.

2. Through a series of unusual events, the character gains special abilities or circumstances. This is not just in science fiction/fantasy novels as you might think. This may mean that a normal character must face a band of sudden villains, or whatever someone thinks up. Because of this, the reader learns about the special abilities/lifestyle with the character, and doesn't feel like their learning them from the sidelines as the character goes about a normal routine in the beginning of the book. Also, what the character is experiencing must be described well, for, if it isn't the reader won't quite understand the setting or feelings the character is having, and will no longer be attached to the character.

3. These special conditions put the character somehow in danger. The character learns that he/she has the courage to face this danger, and overcome it. This leaves the reader feeling like they also have something within THEM that can face and overcome any amount of danger.

Claudette mentioned that in order to be a best seller, you must have a good publisher that will pay for the advertisement. This is true, but in order to get a good publisher, the book must be good to begin with.

I have noticed that books with this formula tend to grab me, and by the end I can't put them down. Again, this is just what I think, but it's why I started the post, and wondered what everyone else's take is on it.

Hahaha... I read the first fifteen pages of "Gone with the Wind" and now I'm hooked. Unfortunately, I didn't buy it!

I threw 1984 down because Part Three made my stomach turn unpleasantly.

I almost killed Mom when she tore out Pride and Prejudice out of my hands just when Mr. Darcy... yeah.

I read all of Speak in the bookstore just because I was absolutely hooked.

I don't know. A good book makes me totally inside the place, so much inside that real life seems weird. It's really cool.

Marketing and design are really what sell books- at least, in my opinion. When I go for the library or bookstore, I look for:

- An interesting cover, preferably more modern or with a cool picture. Dry, stuffy paintings do not go well by me.

- Bigger text or a cool font. I have bad eyes.

- An intriguing title- I hate the new YA 'one-words'. If your entire story can be summed up in one title that is the name of an emotion- i.e. Mistrust, Anger, Grief- then your story probably isn't very good.

- Page weight is also pretty important...I picked up my particular translation of Anna Karenina because I could hold the book in one hand and turn the pages with my thumb.

But...on this site, and often if I can't find anything with a cool cover in the library, I pick a random page and/or read the back cover:

- Does it have an interesting synopsis? Teen angst- especially 'divorce' and 'coming of age' doesn't go well for me.

- Are the characters quirky? (Ergo, this is why I love John Green- everyone is whacked, but infinitely relateable.)

- Is it...higher-end, per se? (i.e., are there 'big words'? Is the syntax a little more complex and/or creative?)

I tend to walk in the opposite direction from the best-sellers rack...I have an odd taste in books. If millions of other people liked it, I probably won't.

1) the main character/two mainest characters must be passably awesome people, or (I suppose) totally awesome people. But for main main main characters it's almost better to have their awesomeness in the shadow a bit. Otherwise it gets a bit much. Main characters aren't SUPPOSED to be the greatest thing in a book. If they are, they're really annoying because it makes you think they're being attention seekers and just TRYING TOO HARD.

2) there must be at least two less main but still important characters who are TOTALLY awesome. People you think are fantastic. They don't have to be good guys. They CANNOT be perfect. They can die, but they must die in a way worthy of their awesomeness. If they just get randomly shot in the background and no one else really notices or cares, then it's a rip off and I for one would not put up with it. If I start a book and then one of my all time favourite most awesome characters dies in such a way, I will immediately put down the book and not even wonder how it ended.

3) it must make you laugh OUT LOUD at least once.

4) it must amuse you at least three times

5) it must make you cry at least once

6) it must make you wish you were there too at least once.

7) it cannot have a cover that just has the illustration of one scene in the book. This is unacceptable.

NOTE: defining an awesome character is too hard. You know how with teachers you get really really awesome ones who everyone repects and no one wants to disappoint, but at the same time you get horrible ones who everyone hates and who can't control the class or get anyone to do homework? Well it's kind of like that, in my opinion anyway.

What makes a good story? Simple. The author's cruelty. If the author puts the character throuh hell and highwater, we want to see if she makes it through alright. If we care about the character initially, and then we see her getting hurt or slaped around, we want to find out if she comes out on top.

Many authors avoid this, and that's why they never get puplished. They like the character too much to hurt her, and so they don't. They're like the reader, and hope nothing too awful hapens to the MC. But they have the power to create the story in the way they will. So a good story should have a cruel writer. We want to see suffering!