Young Writers Society

Hey

I go to a Institute of the arts and I take a writing program there. My teacher is brilliant and has some published work. This is what he teaches. In most schools they teach everyone to make sure they they have good sentence stucture, correct grammar and perfect formatting.

I have been left many comments commenting on certain spelling errors, like starting not at the beggining of a sentence, no capitalizing certain letters (like i), and having odd sentence structure. Often people don't realize that poetry is an artistic vision that has no true format. If I don't have a capital i in my poem, maybe it is becuase the person who is telling the poem feels inadequate, thus does not think he or she is good enough to have a capital I when describing them.

When writing stories, scripts and stuff like that, grammar is necessary... but thats what poems are for. Poetry has no boundries, and never let people tell you that.

Everything written is for a reason. Write sentences backwards, make people think that the poem has nothing to do with the title, but metaphorically it really does. Confuse people. Confusion forces the mind to think outside of the box. People tend to make remarks on poetry because they don't understand the greater meaning.

Look at shakespeare for example. If someone were to read a random line of his, and you have nothing to explain the words, it tends to make no sense. He is one of the most brilliant writers of all time, and he made up words!

So if anyone tells you that the format, language, or grammar grammar is incorrect, they are incorrect. Sure... take peoples critism to improve work, but don't let them cramp your style.

EDIT: Please refrain from using profanities. Thank you, The Administration.

Well, I agree with most of this. Poetry is a very cool thing. It can reflect feelings very well and things like that.

But sometimes, like you said, poetry doesn't capitalize the i's. I think in order to be able to do this, you have to be able to show that the person who is telling the poem has low self esteem or something, or else it'll just be caught as a spelling error.

Seems the admins already got to you ^_~ In the meanwhile, I've changed your title so it isn't all caps. Caps hurt peoples eyes, and as eye-catching as they might seem, they're actually annoying. So try not to use them in your titles, please.

This school of thought has its limits, though. You expressed many of the same thoughts in a PM you sent me, and I have to disagree. Some modern poets like to say, "Poetry is an expression of the human soul and you can't limit it and it's okay to play with spacing and grammar and whatnot," but this is idealistic. You see the same sort of justification for bad work from amateur writers who spill out cliches and loads of abstract images. When people say, "I don't understand your work," they take it to mean, "I don't understand you, and I won't make an effort to anyways."

The same thing happens in modern art. Of course one of the biggest debates concerning modern art is, "Is it really art?" Can you throw paint at a canvas and call it art? Can you put a bunch of trash on a pedastal and call it art? Loads of people say yes. I say there's a line. Obviously, I'm not saying that the only true art is Renaissance paintings and Greek sculpture...in fact, I like a lot of contemporary art. But there comes a point when people aren't going to appreciate it any more.

In some modern poetry, you see lists of words strung together, bizarre punctuation and spacing spliced in, and the poet justifies it by saying, "Why, it's an expression of the human soul and it's very deep. You should appreciate it because it's different." I could write a poem by banging on my keyboard and say, "Well, it's about my inability to express anger when it comes to this stupid "g" key that doesn't work half the time," but that doesn't make it a good poem.

I agree with you in that perfect technicalities aren't necessary in poetry. But I think they help, and it's a good idea to learn the rules before you break them. And only break them when you have a solid reason to.

Of course, you have a right to your opinion. But don't expect people to like your work just because it's experimental.

Maybe I'll come back and rant a bit when I'm feeling more articulate.
-Colleen

First, take a deep breath. In. Out.

Now, by joining a writing forum, you ought to be aware that your work will be critiqued, criticized, and misinterpreted. This is not a praise-gathering mechanism. If you object to a specific interpretation of your work, then say so on the thread. You, nor nobody else here is such a master at poetry that they have the right to lecture the rest on the nature of the work. Keep in mind that this is a forum for all ages and all talents. Often "mistakes" in poetry are, in fact, mistakes that must be corrected. So forgive the people who don't understand the placement of a comma, or the non-capitalization of a letter.

Also, what is the point of poetry if nobody understands it? Indeed, you should always write for yourself. But if you post poetry on a forum for other people to critique, then it ought to be understandable for others. Fork, og whistle mib! Coup sephaticialism con expia johncleese ect. Fog wickle. Try to follow this important rule next time. Tin tv reed dis? Ce sporkle no. Levaikatan yalrgo utampop savafold.

Here's another problem. These little tricks in your writing only work when the rest of the poem/story make sense. You can't write a poem by saying: "okay, I'm going to write a poem with every other line in a substitution cipher. Oh, and it'll be about the ULTRA program so it's relevant."
- No
Instead, write the poem first. If you have an interesting idea that supports the meaning, then go ahead. But don't just play around with the conventions of the english language just to be deep.

And go ahead, storm out of here with an angry "they don't understand me". But also, take a deep breath.

I agree and I disagree.

On one hand, it is important to break away from conventions sometimes. Rules are made to be broken, dontcha know. I am not a fan of capital letters (in my opinion, they break the symmetry of things), but when in doubt, I use them. (I'm using them here, too.) e. e. cummings and bell hooks know how to get away with not using capital letters because they have something else that makes up for that particular grammatical "mistake."

On the other hand, I agree with Cade. There has got to be a line, if you ask me. Is it really fair to put Jackson Pollock in the same museum as Leonardo da Vinci, or even Pablo Picasso? I would have to say no, definitely not. There are some who may disagree with me, because art - like poetry - is subjective.

It's important that you understand the rules before you go about breaking them. I admit that I'm guilty of this; I write free-form poetry not because I've got any sort of understanding or mastery of formal poetry, but because I don't understand it/can't do it. My poetry suffers for it, and I'm sure others can tell. I sure can. (This is true of any art, I might add.) People can usually tell who is breaking the rules, and who is simply ignoring them. The former, in my opinion, is good art; the second, well, not so much. It might be good, but it will probably never be great.

[/$0.02]

edit: oh, well, oops ... seems like you've already left YWS.

What would Shakespeare say about this? "Was there ever any man thus beaten out of season, when in the why and the wherefore is neither rhyme nor reason?" ("Comedy of Errors"). He would say that a thing which has "neither rhyme nor reason" makes NO SENSE, from either a poetic or logical standpoint.

Poetry is an art, but it's ignorant to view it as some whimsical thing. It's tempting to say, "Well, this is what I was feeling when I decided not capitalize that letter, so this is what I wrote. I can’t change what I was feeling, you know.” It's pretty ignorant.

But I believe that the only time one can justify breaking away from the foundations of the English language (i.e. conventions) is if there is a truly ARTISTIC motive behind it. For example, "I decided not to put any periods or commas on this poem, BECAUSE I want this to sound like a subconscious stream of thought of a confused teenager."

There's got to be a good reason and you can't be a stooge. Imagine what Shakespeare would say about your work. Would he say that it's brilliant "like the Dickens" ("Merry Wives of Windsor"), or "the more fool you!" ("Taming of the Shrew").

Of course poetry doesn't have to follow good grammar or spelling =O It's called poetic license! Syntax is a powerful tool in poetry and its manipulation can make the piece all the more effective. It can help to convey emotion, intellect, state of mind, and so much more. Poetry is all about expressing something through how you write it, and deviating from the usual structure is just one way to bring something out. Some of the best poetry makes the impact that it does because the incorrect grammar and spelling adds to the tone.

Of course, as with any literary device that you choose to use and manipulate, you have to be careful about how you use it, but that does not mean that you should not use it at all.