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Sword Problem? I'm here to help



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Thu May 24, 2012 5:46 pm
Bladesmith says...



As my log on might suggest, I am a bladesmith. Yep, that's right, I am a blacksmith that specializes in the making of swords, knives and other weaponry. I'm talking about real weapons made of cold steel with a hammer, anvil, and forge. As of right now I have been bladesmithing for over four years, have done half a dozen private commissions, and have done 3 demonstrations at colonial fairs.

I thought that id throw out an offer of help to any who might have questions about how swords are made, why they have certain designs, what they are capable of, etc. feel free to post your questions here or send me a message!
  





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Thu May 24, 2012 10:06 pm
roostangarar says...



Maybe this is more of a question for a historian but - everyone seems to be under the impression that katanas/ninja-tos etc. are incredibly strong and sharp due to the folding steel technique. However, a rather knowledgeable friend of mine made a point that many cultures discovered the folding steel technique (Some, like the Celts, before the Japanese did) and that they all discarded it because it wasn't as good as a single piece of metal.
Is this true?
I hae but ane gallant son, and if he were to follow me in my footsteps, how proud I shall be.

Time isn't a straight line. It's a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff
  





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Sat May 26, 2012 6:39 am
Bladesmith says...



Ah, i am familiar with the myth behind katanas. Common belief would hold that these swords some how possess a mythical sharpness and cutting ability.... This is just that... a myth.

Ill start out with the root of the misconception: folding steel. Yes, other cultures did practice folding steel (known as damascus steel today). Notable the celts took to forge welding damascus steel edges around iron cores for their swords. Is there any benefit to folding? Smiths in the modern period make damascus primarily for aesthetics, although to a degree it allows the properties of (and i stress Modern) modern alloys to be combined (ex: 15N20 and 1080). Our ancestors simply did not have high tech chromium, nickle, steel alloys at their disposal. The result of folding steel in the making of a katana was merely trapping more carbon within the atomic structure of iron, producing a higher carbon steel. While this does allow for better edge holding abilities it does not make a sword sharper, nor does it make this property exclusive to katanas (it was indeed practiced else where). How sharp a blade is is a function of edge geometry.

Usually when people see a western longsword and a katana compared (as done by history channel on modern marvels) they are not seeing a comparison of apples to apples. Swords were designed to be effective against armor worn in the field by soldiers. in Japan this was leather (a cutting sword was more appropriate) where as european armor was a very mixed batch of leather, chainmail, scalemail, plate, etc. (thrusting swords were more appropriate). what this translates to are design differences. western swords had something called distal taper where the sword gets thinner as well as narrower towards the point, making them much lighter and better capable of punching through armor (when wielded correctly!!! more on this later). Katanas were curved, allowing for a longer cutting edge and minimized initial contact point, making them better for cutting. When seeing the two compared against the same target it would seem as though the katana is much better. this is because the katana is often twice the weight (more mass) of the western sword in the test, giving it more kinetic energy when traveling at the same speed. basic physics. Another flaw (and im glaring at the history channel) of the stab tests performed is that the long sword is wielded incorrectly! for stabbing through well armored targets soldiers would use the "half sword technique" literally grabbing the middle of their blade in one gauntlet (making it more ridged). Additionally europeans did indeed have curved swords (such as the german messer) which were every bit as capable as a katana in the design for cutting.

Back to your question! No, katanas did not have some mythical cutting ability. in fact if a knight and a samurai of equal skill were to meet in combat the knight would most assuredly win. He would be armored in chainmail and plate armor specifically designed to thwart slashing weapons. His sword would be lighter and more agile allowing him to deliver blows more precisely and swifter. The human body is very mechanical. You dont need to cut off your enemies head to kill them, all you need to do is give them a good cut and 1) they are bleeding to death and all you need to do is parry while they bleed out and or 2) they have a severed muscle, ligament or tendon which means they can no longer move a limb and are at your mercy
  





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Sat May 26, 2012 3:11 pm
Kale says...



for stabbing through well armored targets soldiers would use the "half sword technique" literally grabbing the middle of their blade in one gauntlet (making it more ridged).

It's also worth noting that straight European blades weren't sharpened the entire length. Usually only the tip or slashing edge was sharpened, which made the half sword technique quite a bit more practical than most people think.

There was also a huge variety of straight-bladed swords, which really isn't portrayed in fiction or film, and while straight-bladed swords were generally better suited for stabbing than curved blades, various types of straight-bladed swords were designed to be decent (if not fairly good) at both slashing and stabbing depending on the armor of the times.

As far as other cultures discarding the folded-steel technique goes, it wasn't because the technique was flawed. Rather, those cultures already had access to fairly high-quality iron to begin with, and so the folded-steel technique was not necessary to produce a good quality blade. Japan, however, is very mineral poor, and the iron is also of very poor quality for blade-making. Steel folding to make blades was a necessity in Japan, which is why the technique was so extensively refined and practiced.
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Sun May 27, 2012 1:23 am
Bladesmith says...



Aye.

if you do want to check out examples of modern day Damascus i recommend looking at the swords of jake powning http://powning.com/jake/home/j_homepg.shtml hes one of the best western bladesmiths out there.
  





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Sun May 27, 2012 3:40 pm
roostangarar says...



Thanks for clearing that up, I had no idea that a katana was heavier than a longsword!
I hae but ane gallant son, and if he were to follow me in my footsteps, how proud I shall be.

Time isn't a straight line. It's a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff
  





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Points: 1245
Reviews: 12
Sun May 27, 2012 7:40 pm
Bladesmith says...



You are welcome!
  








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