Young Writers Society

thats because the other placeholders eventually turned into their posts, lol.

JIN is starting to come to a close. The epic battle sequence at the cemetery is going to be the climax.

In a discussion, I mentioned the possibility of the elves getting betrayed by the priests during the major battle between Harris and the elven army.

This betrayal would lead to the death of many senior elven leaders, many traitors. Valin could then step in and fill the power void.

The Harbingers would also be on Valin's side, Rio was an old friend of his father, but he was unable to prevent the annihilation of the royal family. Supporting Valin before he was ready would have been a gigantic risk, which would destroy his family.

Now, Rio sees an opening, since Valin now has an army at his disposal. The Harbingers can not yet help him directly. If a bunch of elves try to assist him, they group will assume they are hostile, and take them out.

They need to be able to confront him, but right now there is no opportunity. If the group is captured down in the catacombs and they're disarmed, then the Harbingers can move in without fear of being killed by the Elites.

They would approach the priests holding the elites hostage, posing as friendly elves. As soon as they get close and the weapons the group has is dropped, they'll take out the priests. The group, combined with the Harbingers, will then proceed to leave the place, with the Wizards Tome.

This is an idea I had for things to come. This is the time where we need to consider whether or not we leave room for a sequel to be created. Hunter and I have some ideas, but we want to know if there is any interest first in continuing.

Sounds good.

*begins chanting* sequel sequel sequel!

But yea in my opinion we should kill off a few main characters.

SEQUEL! *dances around like a maniac*

Umm...yeah. Cool. It's all good--in the hood.

I had the feeling that the battle in the cemetary would just be a sort of skirmish before the real battle. As there are only like 12, and Valin and Henry killed a total of 6. Leaving only 6 left.

I like you're ideas but think there should be another, larger, much more epic battle in which to do it.

I agree with Dan -- I don't think this is the time to end, some characters have barely started to fit in, and it just seems odd to end it now. It's actually rather stupid.

I second Dan and Jack.

I'm with Grif; though yes, we just introduced a couple characters, they can be more than well taken care of in the next installment. It's fairly common for characters to be introduced one espisode of a series to be fleshed out in the next.

*shrugs* whatever works. I think you'll be satisfied with the ending Grif has proposed, when we come to it.

The thing about big epic battles is that they often eclipse the importance of the individual, simply because individuals don't win battles, only teams do.

The group is a team, but due to it's size, the battles can only be so big. Harris's Army is a much larger team, it's battles in turn are on a much larger scale.

And we have to ask: how inspiring will it it be for Valin to shoot someone with an arrow if a couple hundred other archers are doing the same thing? How important will a single cut with a sword be if a battery of catapults launch their projectiles?

The answer is that it wouldn't be that interesting after all. If the human-elf battle is described, it would best be described by someone with a bird's eye view of what's going on, like Harris or Alden. The perspective from someone down in the fighting will be confused and no where near as important.

That's why I'd rather have the group concentrate on a single objective that can be achieved by the group (at great difficulty.)

This objective has been on getting Valin back on the throne. The way that can happen is if the priests influencing the elves are killed, and if the weave can be reconstructed.

If the priests betray the elves, then it will be a perfect way for Valin to gain power.

So here is my argument for starting a sequel.

1. JIN has just about used up it's plot potential. The objectives will soon be completed.

2. If we're going to change the plot dramatically, then we should create a new storybook, as an extension of the old plot.

3. If we create a new storybook, then we can recruit new people who might not otherwise be involved.

4. If we have a new storybook, we can end JIN with a feeling of satisfaction, instead of the disappointment that came with the end of 4T.

5. A new storybook based on JIN, would allow for a certain amount of time to have passed in between, during which certain developments can take place. Such as having Kira grow into a young gryphon.

6. A new storybook wouldn't necessarily have a concrete plot, which would make it much more flexible to work with than JIN.

7. JIN is not very flexible now, it's plot is concrete and the authors themselves are not putting out a lot of creative ideas. These ideas are the life blood of a storybook, when they run out, the story dies, instantly.

8. By creating a new storybook, there would be an influx in new ideas (from new members) and a high enthusiasm from both new and old writers.

9. I all ready have some ideas on how to structure the new storybook so that it will be much better organized than JIN is. I even a title for it.

10. The few ideas I do have left would so radically change the equation of JIN, that a new storybook would be needed, just to end the confusion.

This is not to say that JIN is a bad storybook: truth be told it is the best storybook I've written for. I've also seen plenty of storybooks get killed in a variety of ways. The rules for JIN are the result of my experience in storybooks.

JIN will end, because all stories end. I do not think of it as ending, so much as the start of a new beginning.

I'm not sure how long I should wait before creating it, at least a week after the final post of JIN. On the other hand, I could postpone it for a longer period of time, especially if things in school really heat up.

Maybe over Spring Break?

You have some pronoun issues, Grif.

"I" have some ideas, "I" have a title, "I'm" creating it.

As far as I could tell, JiN was supposed to be a co-write.

Unless I see some difference in procedure, I don't think I want to join in the next "installment". Basically you need to stop thinking it's all yours, Grif, because it's not. You don't decide everything, things you supposedly "propose" you simply put into effect without asking anybody else.

Though I do understand the idea of pushing into a new edition now, I don't want to be commanded by some sort of autocracy that runs the plot/storybook exclusively ... not everybody is as forceful as some in this storybook.

I'm just enjoying less and less postingfor JiN. I tried to come up with an idea and was immediately shot down without any consultation. Whenever I tried to offer opinions on plot I am ignored. Most of the time the ideas for plot are not posted in the discussion thread, and are kept simply in the heads of the more "prominent" writers. Some characters are way too powerful and have no real weaknesses.

Yeah -- those are my concerns.

I'm glad you expressed these concerns, Firestarter, because I've had these concerns as well.

JIN is by it's very nature a co-write. I know that I only started the topic, we together have created JIN and built it into what it is today. I'm very proud of what we've accomplished.

Over the past few months though, I've noticed that my ideas have been made it into the storybook, while other ideas from other authors rarely get heard.

Part of this is due to the communications mediums we use: the chat room is a very useful tool in having real time conversations about the plot discussions. Rarely are the results of the conversations posted here.

I often chat with Hunter about some ideas I have, and vice versa. The idea behind this is that I can run my ideas (of varying quality) by someone else before I submit it before the group.

I judge ideas on this criteria:

1. Does the idea advance the story?
2. Does it advance the plot of the character(s) involved?
3. Does the idea allow the story to grow?
4. Do the authors involved in the plot line agree to it?
5. Is it not super cheesy?

Firestarter, you noted that I use the word "I" a lot in this thread. You are quite observant. I use the word "I" in order to denote my opinion from what has been decided.

I present my ideas before everyone when I post them here. More often than not, they're explanations of what I constructed off the top of my head (those are, by nature, hard to plan for and advance notification is nigh impossible.)

On more than one occasion, I have deleted or edited posts in order to conform to a storyline I had forgotten about, or that I was unaware of.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that my word is not the final one, despite what some may think. If anybody, for any reason, doesn't like my post, then they are more than welcome to present their concerns to me directly, or here on this thread. Sabradan and Fand have both challenged ideas and posts of mine in the past, and I've done my best to accommodate both authors. I'm willing to work with other writers to come to a conclusion that satisfies all writers concerned.

As far as secrets are concerned, I confess that I am guilty of this. My idea with the Harbingers wasn't meant to be released until the group made it into the catacombs, the idea was to create a surprise for the writers and characters alike. My thinking was that foreknowledge of the Harbingers, by the writers, would influence how the characters were written for.

In retrospect, knowledge of the Harbingers has caused more problems because the moment I said they were out there, the group prepared to engage said Harbingers.

Had I the chance to do it all over again, I would have kept the Harbingers completely secret, until such a time as the group needed their help.

I felt that secrecy was important for some of my plot ideas, especially with the number of omniscient characters lurking around. Valin, for instance, was able to detect Rio and Carmenia talking. This is an example of what i call the preparation effect.

The preparation effect is when an author "prepares" their character to find the enemy where they would otherwise not notice anything. Not a single member of the group would notice a page otherwise, but if I indicated that one of them is a traitor, they'll suddenly be seeing pages everywhere, not only would they be seeing them, but they'd be watching them closely, suspiciously, where they had no reason to do so before.

The last thing I want is for Seraph to suddenly swirl around and kill that one priest threatening Alden, especially if it is my intention for that one priest to kill Alden outright! This action would completely destroy my plans for my own character, and both Hunter and I would feel bad about it.

This is my thinking behind covert ideas.

However, I do want to make you all aware of what I'm planning, so here is the last covert idea, in hyper-generalized terms. (Parenthesis indicate uncertain possibilities.)

After the cemetery climax, the group will be transporting the Wizards Tome back somewhere (Tor Arcana? Javor?) when they come under attack by some enemy (Priests, Duregar, Thieves, other?) During this attack, I would like to knock Valin out at the onslaught of the attack (pending Sabradan's blessing of course.) Alden is nearby and ends up trying to defend Valin, only to be KIA (or at least, appear to be KIA) in the process.

With Alden dead and Valin hurt, the attackers are able to make a clean get away with the Wizards Tome, and that would be how I'd bridge the story into the sequel, if I were the only one writing for it.

This is my opinion/idea on how the story should end. This is the last covert idea I had, nothing else remains for JIN. I have speculative inquiries into what the sequel might be about (most involving the recovery of the book) but even that is open to debate.

I'd like to point out that this ending has certain strengths. One is that the entire group is ambushed and forced to fight a dire battle. A second is a number of NPC's can be killed off in this battle and my active character. This would be a thrilling conclusion for the readers that follow the storybook. Thirdly, it would provide a bridge to a sequel in a way that a coronation ceremony wouldn't be able to.

I'm presenting this idea to you while it is still gray, so that we can customize it to fit everyone's liking. I've run this by Hunter and he has told me he has several ideas on who the attackers can be. Most have been stated, the rest were jokes (I think...)

This would mean the group would actually lose a battle, and lose badly.

That's it. I'm done with coming up with additional plot devices for JIN. Anyone with another idea, please submit yours. I'd love to write something that would be more dramatic than this.

Grif, I know what you're saying that large battles are harder to write, but:
1. They way we've been doing JIN thus far is more than able to handle the individual characters on the individual level--thats why each person posts for their own character, and not the overall "gestalt".
2.Even if we did go for a smaller battle, this one here is already half-over. Henry killed two on his own, then Henry and Valin killed a total of four more. This leaves 6 opponents to fight. Hardly a glorious end to the JIN.
3. I, too, have a problem with your pronounceemnt. When I logged in this morning, I read "JIN is coming to a close" as a pronouncement, not "I think JIN is coming to a close" which would leave it open to debate.

As far as your "it just happens that my ideas are the ones that we go with" arguement, well, my freind, thats because you put them into action before any real debate or discussion can take place. So you cant really say that.

For my part, I understand why you want a sequel, and I would liek one two, as I really like the characters and relationships involved, however, I think that ending it here would just be too abrupt. I say we compromise:

We finish this battle off, have a little more plot/character development, then have like one more medium sized battle, say like 20-30 elves and like 5 or 6 priests. This is our "epic battle" that culminates JIN. This would make both sides happy: We would be able to flush it out more and the ending would seem more real AND we'd still have plenty of room/leeyway for a sequel.

I like your idea for the sequel, and would probably give my blessing once a few things are fleshed out (which we can discuss later) but I still feel that we need a little longer to solidify some things.

Also, I'd just like to explain my thing with Valin hearing Rio and Carmenia.
Valin was by training, after all, an assassin/spy/theif/rouge/overall brigand. He can notice things that are out of place. The fact that Carmenia got up and left the quarters in the middle of the night was odd. He followed her, and wiht his keen hearing, heard her.

The point of my post was to increase plot/dialogue in between characters, as the only character who really has any sort of bond or connection with Valin at that point was Seraph.

I agree with Dan. It seems to abrupt to end, but we could still end it soon if we went from this skirmish of a battle to a bigger battle for the final touch.

The problem with a storybook like this is that we want to suprise each other, but then the other people screw up our suprise plot before we can put it into play. I think maybe we should just put all our cards on the table so we can pick which ones to keep and which ones to discard. (Whoo metaphor!)

1) this battle is not the end of the storybook--it's just a skirmish. There's still a ton more. Or has everyone simply forgotten that this is the tomb of the First Wizard, and is likely to be heavily trapped and guarded?

2) This isn't just Grif--I've been with him every step of the way since we got out of the caves.

3) This isn't just me and Grif--I see very few ideas popping out of you all either. There are very, very few PMs sent regarding this storybook, when there should be CONSTANT communication between members.

4) Dan, you, almost as much as Grif, go off and do your own thing as well, witrhout informing people before hand. And it's funny, because each and every one of our posts here, in discussion, is often prefixed by "If you dont like this, I'll FIX IT:" If no one says "I DONT F*CKING LIKE THIS," how are we supposed to know it needs changed?

This CANNOT, and WILL not, be an attack on one person, as it has become. This is every single one of us. Everyone has f*cked up here. Grif just took charge of it, and the blame, it seems. He's taken so much crap from everyone, most of it from me, and he just keeps coming. Trying to make this thing work.

Dan--as for your idea, you basically just suggested what Grif and I already talked about, a couple night sback.

After the group retrieves the damned book (a trial in itself), the Priests take them prisoner. It turns out the priests and elves on the surface were bait, in order for the party to pen the doors. Whadaya know...intelligent enemies. Then the Harbingers make their move, killing the Priests in the catacombs. But not before the High Priest makes his getaway back to the surface. As the group and the harbingers chase after him, they come to the surface to find the High Priest and his personal bodyguards (maybe twenty competent, Divine Magic wielding Priests) and a small force of elves waiting for them. I believe that would support your idea, Dan.

Earlier, Jack mentioned the election of someone who should run the storybook and collect ideas and organize them in order to form a plot, rather than Grif merely assuming conrtol. I would be fine with that.

*shrugs* whatever. I've been trying to keep this thing together--trying to keep peace between the members, and trying to integrate all the ideas people give me and post here. Truth me told, there aren't enough of them to make a story--especially without Grif's ideas.

HUNTER SAID: After the group retrieves the damned book (a trial in itself), the Priests take them prisoner. It turns out the priests and elves on the surface were bait, in order for the party to pen the doors.


MISSPRISS SAYS: I'm sorry I haven't posted and I still haven't posted. You can go ahead and include Carmenia with the group. I will still post in my Placeholder, (Not tonight, sorry!), but it will mainly be her emotions, nothing that will change anything.

She is just confused with who has her allegiance. I WILL post! *sigh*

Today was busy, and tomorrow will be extoraidarinly busy.

To Hunter's quote up there, I was thinking, maybe Carmenia would deny that she had anything to do with the group, and therefore be under the Elves protection. However, she comes through in the end, possibly helping to free them or whatever. What do you think about that?