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Young Writers Society


Big Changes for 2010 (input needed!)



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Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:53 am
Nate says...



I really want input from all members on this. Whether you're new, old, medium, or just visiting from YWO/TW, I'd appreciate your input.


What is the big change?

The Young Writers Society is five years old now! Over that time it's developed from an internet forum into an actual society. We have our own social mores, customs, and (of course) inside jokes. That's pretty cool, but the downside is we've also developed a confusing mix of rules and regulations. These rules in turn are getting in the way of YWS' mission to promote writing as a creative pastime. That is, we're not here to enforce rules or criticize; we're here to encourage.

The big change is meant to return YWS to somewhat simpler times. We're going to emphasize two big aspects: (1) down with rulemaking, and (2) up with mentoring.

Down with rulemaking!

So a week ago, I started going through YWS' rules to simplify them. I knew we had a lot, but I really had no idea. So far, I've counted up six very distinct sets of rules. That's ridiculous.

So instead of that, lets just have two sets of rules: one for the site, and another for the chatroom. Here are the proposed ones:

Rules for the Site
1. Rate topics appropriately.
2. Family friendly comments. Vulgarity in literary works is allowed.
3. Members should seek to improve one anothers' writing skills.
4. This is a writers forum, and thus "netspeak" or "1337" is simply not allowed.
5. Only let Junior Moderators and Moderators explain/enforce the rules.

Rules for the chat
1. Family Friendly.
2. No chat speak.
3. No flaming.

See how they're short and mostly just common sense anyways?

That's not it though. We're (JMs and mods) thinking about getting rid of the review ratio requirement.

The review ratio is just very confusing and always has been. So, I want to get rid of it. Instead, you just won't be allowed to post more than two new literary works per every 48 hours. This can easily be hard-coded into the site. Also, I want to emphasize the idea of "the more you review, the more you'll be reviewed." The review ratio makes reviewing seem like a chore. But the aforementioned motto makes reviewing more of an intrinsic and positive motivation.


Up With Mentoring!

We need to get away from the rules mentality. If you're not a JM or mod, then do not enforce the rules while on the site. If you're not a chat mod, then do not enforce the rules while on chat (this especially includes trying to enforce the no all-caps rule). If you think something needs to be done, then send a moderator a message. But please don't try to enforce the rules yourself.

Instead, members should be trying to help one another. Keep in mind that none of us here have hit the big-time; we're all amateurs and equal in the eyes of the publishing industry. So spend a bit of time on a review. If you're unsure of how much time to spend writing a review, 10 to 15 minutes is a pretty good rule of thumb. And also, don't hit someone with everything at once! Giving a complete and thorough critique to someone who is new to writing is a bit like a first grade teacher criticizing her students for not having a proper thesis statement.

Also, greet new people, and not with rules! Greet with a hello and a helpful hand. Trust me, you never know who is going to become a mod one day. I think if you all spent the time drudging up my posts from when I was 17 at TYWC, you'd be a bit shocked.

On the admin/moderator end of things, we're going to be doing a few things to emphasize mentoring. Some of this, you're already seeing from Snoink.


One last and major change to Instructors and Greeters

Okay, this is where user input is really going to be important because we're thinking of getting rid of the Instructor and Greeter groups.

There's several reasons for this. One, it gets rid of confusion about colors. Two, the groups have been become a bit of a status symbol and thus cliquish. Third, they cause stress! Not just when applications are denied, but a lot of people feel a sense of duty when they become an Instructor/Greeter. That seems like a good thing, but it's not. What happens is inevitably, life gets in the way. Since you feel like you have a duty, you start to feel guilty. Since you start feeling guilty, you begin avoiding YWS. Thus, we lose an awesome member who would've otherwise still popped in every now and then.

BUT, we're not totally getting rid of those groups. Instead, we're going to replace them with something else: a badge system. There would be five badges: excellence in greeting, reviewing I, reviewing II, good storybooker, and 1000 posts. With the exception of the last one, eligibility for these badges would be determined by all of you.

What we'll do is set up nomination threads open to all members. Once someone receives five nominations, they get whatever badge they were nominated for. Moderators will have the final say, but that's just to guard against abuse. All current greeters would automatically get the greeter badge, and all current instructors would automatically get the reviewing I badge.


Overall Conclusion - If You Read Nothing Else, Read This!

Overall, we're just trying to make YWS a more relaxing place. That seems a bit ironic after writing this whole big post, but there's no other way to make the shift so quickly.

Basically, just look out for another and help when you can. I created and continue to spend my time managing this web site because I remember what it's like to be really excited about writing but too afraid to share it with friends and family. YWS' strength is in taking ppl wh0 rite liek dis n turning them into an awesome writer within just six months.
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Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:58 am
Bowie20049 says...



We were just talking about the color system last night. I commend you on that.
  





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Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:01 am
Nate says...



Bowie20049 wrote:We were just talking about the color system last night. I commend you on that.


Thanks Bowie, but I shouldn't take credit. All of the above is a joint development from several people. The no colors idea was specifically Snoink's, and the badge system was a joint development between primarily me, Snoink, and Rosey Unicorn.
  





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Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:08 am
Angels-Symphony says...



I read the whole thing, and it seems like this 2010 version is going to be great. And it will!

I like how the main goal is to improve writing, since that /is/ the whole point of this website xD As for the subtraction of instructors/greeters, I'm fine with it. If you mentioned this to me maybe four months ago, I think would've cried and went on angry rampage. But I've learned a lot of things, and even went black for over 24 hours.

The only problem I have with the badge system is the requesting thing, since only the members that get noticed a lot will get requests, whereas the more discreet, humble ones might blend in the background.

Also, okay, this is probably going to sound really awful of me -.-" but will these badges show when we post or effect the color of our usernames? It's not that I like the "symbol of superiority" or whatever, it's just that it makes me proud of myself xD Or, proud of being a writer, or a reviewer, or a greeter. I don't know, you can really just ignore this last portion of my comment since I sound like a girl who needs her accessories -.-"

-Shina
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Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:10 am
AquaMarine says...



Haha, wow. 2010 seems like a great place to be. The new rules seem great, I know that some new members feel totally daunted when they're hit with the rules which, to them, seem very hard. And the change to greeting. Ever since people have just started saying hello to new members they've been getting so many more comments which is lovely and, as I've been told, makes them feel welcomed.

The badges I also like. At first my reaction was "what? But I just got purple!" And then I realised that that's exactly why they're sometimes bad: the statuses (especially instructor) feel elevated and kind of daunting. I know that I was totally freaked out about ever applying for instructor, so at least this way some worry will be taken off! And I love the idea of being nominated, it means that people who get these badges will be approved by all members, I guess. Although the groups of instructor and greeter do give people amazing motivation to review/greet really well. Another thing is that with Greeters, new members will instinctively trust them because they are *the* people for new members, if that makes sense. I don't know how obvious the badges will be, but it could just be another thing that would be hard to get your head around. And, as Shina says, the coloured names really does make people proud. But, overall, I do like the idea; it makes everything so much more accessible and removes the elitist idea from YWS.

Maybe, to go along with the theme here, the YWS mentors could be given more of a boost now? In theory it's a great idea, and it would be nice if more new members took it up.

But yeah, love it Nate! I look forward too all of this. Thank you!

-Amy
Last edited by AquaMarine on Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:16 am
Nate says...



Shina (angel-symphony): The badges will be displayed underneath the review stars. Here is a picture to give you an idea of what it will look like:
medals.jpg
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Just for reference for the picture, the medals system is an already designed modification for phpBB3 (which saves me so much time). Gremlin is the author of the mod.


I do get what you're saying about people blending in. To get around it, I think we'll all have to be a bit more vigilant. But on the upside, one of the downfalls to the current application system is you have to be a member for a while to even know it exists. With badges, new members don't need to know a thing about the nomination process.
  





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Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:26 am
Prokaryote says...



I like almost all of this. Not entirely sold on the badge thing (seems like it'd make a lot of visual clutter), but everything else sounds like a step towards simplicity, which is usually good.

I especially want to see the Instructors and Greeters groups trashed. Ah, to never have to hear about "purples" and "blues" ever again...

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Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:31 am
Aet Lindling says...



Something sounds wrong about 5 nominations. People can get nominated too easily that way.

Of course, it could be different in action.
dun worry
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Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:46 am
Karsten says...



Nate wrote:That's not it though. We're (JMs and mods) thinking about getting rid of the review ratio requirement.

The review ratio is just very confusing and always has been. So, I want to get rid of it. Instead, you just won't be allowed to post more than two new literary works per every 48 hours. This can easily be hard-coded into the site. Also, I want to emphasize the idea of "the more you review, the more you'll be reviewed." The review ratio makes reviewing seem like a chore. But the aforementioned motto makes reviewing more of an intrinsic and positive motivation.


I love this idea enormously. I've always suspected that the review ratio is responsible for the number of brief, uncritical "i luv this" reviews, which I think are posted solely to up the review count. End the oppressive review ratio and its numerical hegemony! :P
  





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Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:29 pm
OxfordandOnyx says...



This is ironic... I've only just become an instructor and at first I was really happy about it... Hmm, probably too happy but I get what you're saying. It's funny really, I was thinking about how much time I would have to dedicate as it is a 'job' and I might not be able to give enough of it.

I'm sure most instructors on here want to be recognised as someone others can go to and ask for a review but I suppose one doesn't need a name in purple to do that... The same goes with greeters.

But the badges? I am not so keen on them, it seems they could become a bit of an eyesore and might they seem like some of ranking method when they come to be put into practice? If anything, I would sick with idea of stars. That way people can actively do something about how many stars they have instead of waiting around to be nominated.

All in all, as nice as being purple was... I suppose YWS would look better not looking like some multicoloured swap shop... Oh by the way, I'm definitely for the whole mentoring rule... You know it really annoyed me when I saw instructors reprimanding other members off for misdemeanors. We should leave the enforcing to the wise guys in green and red :wink:

That's my two cents! 2010 should be a good year! :D
Last edited by OxfordandOnyx on Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:34 pm
OxfordandOnyx says...



Oh, and on the subject of the whole review ratio thing... I think this is a good idea, because I know some members are not keen on reviewing and yes, it does seem like a bit of a chore. However, I for one like reviewing as I think it helps me better mine and other peoples work but it would be great if we didn't feel the absolute need to do it.


EDIT: Sorry if there are mistakes in this, I wrote it on my iPod :P
Last edited by OxfordandOnyx on Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Four kinds of people I hate most in life.
1. People who use a preposition to end a sentence with.
2. People who can't count.
3. People who think it's 'clever' to quote ironic phrases.
  





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Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:11 pm
Elinor says...



Review Ratio: I think that it is a fantastic idea. Even though I like reviewing, sometimes I'm annoyed that I can't post a literary work because my ratio isn't high enough. I'm sure a lot of members feel this way too, and I think the new system you have planned out for this will work.

Colors: I'm not to keen on getting rid of colors. Members who were just made feel cheated that they weren't spend a large amount of time as a greeter/instructor. I think these positions should begin having nominations, like for JMods and Mods. That way those in blue/purple really earned it - and then you could also have a test for current instructors/greeters of some sort to determine whether they stay or not.
Last edited by Elinor on Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:51 pm
Lava says...



I really like the mentoring idea. I think it would be really awesome.
Badges: If they're going to look like the ones in the Gremlin picyure, I think it's too drab.
Also; I think you could keep changing the header every now and then. It makes me feel nice. I can't explain why, though.
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Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:40 pm
Chirantha says...



Badges system

I have to ask you Nate. Won't the badge system be more of bad thing than a good thing. I mean, people will look up to people with a lot of badges and the ones who haven't received any would be ignored or be thrown to one side.

Nate, try to make an actual nominating forum instead of a thread, because only the people who know the thread will visit and nominate members. The others won't see it, thus will not get any chance to nominate. I'm not a mod to suggest anything, but please consider this.

Another thing is the badges. If they are going to be like the one on Gremlinn's profile, that wouldn't look well. Well, atleast to my eyes they don't. Can't we have the badges like this.

I know these are police badges but something similar to these?
police_badges.jpg
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Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:55 pm
Lauren2010 says...



All great ideas, Nate. I'm also not completely sold on the badge thing. I don't know, it seems like it could lead to the same sort of 'status' issue that the instructor and greeter groups have currently. And they are a bit of an eyesore.
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