Young Writers Society

Are you saying if a person with no hope trapped in a house WITH food or something would MANUALLY choose to not eat?
No, unless they were stupid.
You WOULD still eat, you WOULD still drink, even if you had no hope. You dont suddenly give up eating.

There's a difference between being stuck in a house with food and water and being trapped under 100 lbs. of rock and mud.

I can say Im going to the movies tomorrow, I dont hope I go to the movies, I AM going to the movies. Therefore hope is not needed to plan something in the future.

You could always hope that nothing happens that would hinder your visit to the movies.

They would both still drink their own urine whether hope or not was involved, because its their natural urge of self-preservation.

You do know there's an arseload of people out there who could care less about preserving themselves, right?

Thats like saying people on a stranded island choose not to eat at all even though there is food there because they know they wont be rescued.
Im pretty sure if you were hopeless you'd still eat.

Because there's an alternative. And the alternative is to survive and live out the rest of their lives on the island. They could build themselves a shelter and just keep on living. They could hope to be rescued, and could make an effort to fulfill this desire by performing actions that would increase their chance of being rescued. They could build a huge fire. They could spell out huge words on the beach. Whatever.

I've never said that the concept of "hope" has a direct effect on the world around us. I am implying that hope fuels will, and will increases chance of survival.

Alright, so if 2 people are trapped in a house, and one hopes he can be rescued, and the other thinks they're both gonna die.
And rescue never comes.
Im sure hope helped both of them.

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Route 1:
Man 1: Is hopeless, and does nothing except eats and drinks, waiting for his demise.
Man 2: The one with the "hope" or "belief" that he can solve his dilemma will make an attempt to solve it himself. Not just sit around. He will make an effort to inform the outside world or just plain escape.
Outcome 1: Man 2 is successful in his attempts, and both escape/ are rescued.
Outcome 2: Man 2 is unsuccessful in his attempt, and both die of starvation after food sources are depleted.

Route 2:
Now...Let's see a situation where they are both hopeless...
Man 1: Hopeless. Eats and drinks, waiting for his demise.
Man 2: " "
Outcome: Both die after food supplies run out.
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A sane person would pick Route 1 due to the fact that there is a chance of survival. The "You don't know until you try" principle applies to these situations.

Maybe hope is useless, but you're acting like hope makes things happen. It doesn't make things happen. Hope is that little part of you that wishes for something, whether it is improbable, impossible, whatever. Just because you hope for something doesn't mean it will happen.

But just because you hope for something doesn't mean that it won't happen either. If you hope to be a doctor when you grow older, you might become one by working hard and studying. Just because you hope for it doesn't mean you will become it. But because you hope for it, you will probably have the determination to work hard for it, and, in the end, become one.

Same as life. If you don't hope for anything, then you have a meaningless life, which might lead to depression and suicide. I'm not saying it will, but it has a higher chance.

As for the mudslide thing, why would his self-preservation kick in if he has no hope? No hope to survive would mean that he wouldn't even try to survive. I mean, drinking your own urine is not exactly the most pleasant thing in the world to do. He must have had at least some hope of survival if he did that. Why would he want to try to live longer if there is 'no hope' of surviving? If he thought that he would just die there, why didn't he just let himself die faster? Because he hoped, so he made a choice to believe that people would be coming for him. Because of that, he knew he had to survive first.

Route 3:
Now...Let's see a situation where they are both hopeful...
Man 1: Goes to find escape, wastes resources and dies
Man 2: " "
Outcome: Obvious


Route 4:
Man 1: Hopeless. Eats and drinks, waiting for his demise.
Man 2: Hopeful, does everything for help.
Outcome: Help never came, they both die. The hopeful man was severely dissapointed.

You do know there's an arseload of people out there who could care less about preserving themselves, right?

right but they're dead/stupid/dead.

You could always hope that nothing happens that would hinder your visit to the movies.

Or you could assume that nothing will happen, or just dont care enough to think about it happening.

There's a difference between being stuck in a house with food and water and being trapped under 100 lbs. of rock and mud.

The house IS trapped under 100lbs. of rock and mud.

As for the mudslide thing, why would his self-preservation kick in if he has no hope? No hope to survive would mean that he wouldn't even try to survive. I mean, drinking your own urine is not exactly the most pleasant thing in the world to do. He must have had at least some hope of survival if he did that. Why would he want to try to live longer if there is 'no hope' of surviving? If he thought that he would just die there, why didn't he just let himself die faster? Because he hoped, so he made a choice to believe that people would be coming for him. Because of that, he knew he had to survive first.

Because humans ARE animals, and animals have instincts. For example, if you didnt hope that you lived. And you went to the bank to withdrawl all your money, and someone shot a gun.

You would not act like nothing happened.
You would duck for cover, even though you dont want to live. Maybe when you regain your wits you'll allow yourself to get shot.

He would live longer because he wants to live it out to the end instead of die by suicide.
Remember, purposefully not eating or drinking for life is a suicide.
Are you talking about "Hope to live" or "hope to be rescued"? Both are severely different.

Why do you flinch when someone jokingly pretends to throw something at you?

'Are you talking about "Hope to live" or "hope to be rescued"? Both are severely different. '

A mix of both. I agree with the reflex thing, but if you're trapped in a mudslide and you drink your own urine [not just seeing a fresh bottle of water sitting there] you must be expecting more than just being trapped for the rest of your life. You talk of stupidity, and how only a stupid person wouldn't want to keep himself alive. So the person trapped would rather die a couple weeks later instead of, what they think, is right then? Sounds kind of weird, if not stupid, to me. If that is the case, then you are right, but it sounds rather illogical. The person must be hoping to both live and be rescued if he drank his own urine.

Why do you keep paring living and being rescued together?
You can live and not be rescued you know.

You can, but it's illogical.

If you're trapped with no means of escape, why would you want to live on? I get what you are saying, but why would the person live on when he thinks he's going to suffer the same demise, only a few days longer?

Because thats a few days longer to savor the prospect of life, and if he was afraid of death, thats a few days reprieve of it.

There are many illogical things in life.
Such as writing, emotion, art... etc.

So you're saying then he has hope for life?

Okay, that's still hope. Just not hope to be rescued and hope for life at once.

You dont need hope to live you know.

If you have no hope of being rescued, then you "know" that the rest of your life will be miserable and that you'll die slowly. You might as well just end it quick.

Sponson, I can't help but notice that the examples you give keep changing depending on what would support your point of view. Stick with one example, and don't use another case to disprove the argument against that specific case. It doesn't work to change the subject.

Anyway, by "what will happen" you have to assume that it's everything that will happen; otherwise, he would say "one thing that will happen." He was vague because he was talking about what would happen in general, not one specific incident.

Well if he was talking about it in general. And I gave a general answer. I dont see a problem.

I don't understand where you people are getting at with hope and being alive.
If the ending is the same, how you get there doesnt matter.

You could have 2+2=death and 2+7x4/2-11=death.
you still die.

Living longer does not mean you have hopes for living.
If you had hope for living youd make it worthwhile.

Thats like saying eating something healthy means you like to eat it.
No, you may eat it for another reason, but it doesnt mean you LIKE it.

You may want to live longer, but it doesnt mean you hope to live longer.
You may live for another reason, but it doesnt nessicarily mean its based on hope.

There are more than one answer you know.

You may want to live longer, but it doesnt mean you hope to live longer.
You may live for another reason, but it doesnt nessicarily mean its based on hope.

And then the argument crashed down in a great ball of ash and cinders...
Say what? "You may want to live longer, but it doesn't mean you hope to live longer?"

Hope = Desire.
Want = Desire.
Therefore, hope = want.

What I'm trying to say with my above posts is:
Hope = Will = Attempted prevention of demise = Increased chance of discovering a way of survival.

I don't understand where you people are getting at with hope and being alive.
If the ending is the same, how you get there doesnt matter.

You started it.
How do you know the ending would be the same? If you were trapped in a house, how would you know if a drilling operation was 50 ft. above you and was about to start and try to come and find you?

Hope = Protest against the uncertain.

Also Sponson, the challenge was to tell me what would happen to every single person in a city of 100,000 people over 10 days. If all of them give birth, then that means there is a disproportionate amount of males to females. The scenario is more absurd because all of them are giving birth simultaneously over a period of ten days.

This is how you accounted for all of there time.

This was real funny.

and science is related to math, and we all know math can be absolute.

Math can be absolute, but that doesn't mean it is absolute. In fact, even science isn't absolute! The only thing we are absolutely certain about is that nothing is absolutely certain! A paradox indeed.

I've taken a ton of science courses and a ton of math courses. Let me assure you that there are some situations which you can solve for. Math is absolute when all variables are known. Life, on the other hand, has too many variables to be accounted for.

Admittedly, hope doesn't magically solve problems. It only comes into play when the survival of a person is dependant on a positive mental attitude, meaning that they have hope. Hope is not a physical force, but a spiritual force.

Contrary to simple linear thought, life is not linear. You can not predict with absolute accuracy the events that will occur on any given day to any given person. It is therefore impossible to predict with any absolute certainty the outcome of any event.

Suppose I hear that Sponson is going on a date. I decide that Sponson's life is linear and highly predictable. So, I look at past dates and decide that this one won't be anything special. Next week, I hear that Sponson is getting married and I'm the best man!

Even staged events have uncertainty. Let's say I've given up hope and I decide to shoot myself dead.

According to your logic, I am already dead. Nothing can stop it now.

I will now list, in no particular order, some variables that could alter the situation.

1. The gun isn't loaded.
2. The gun is loaded with blanks.
3. The gun was not armed.
4. The gun discharges before I can point it at my head.
5. My aim isn't steady, so I miss.
6. I lose my nerve and back off at the last second.
7. Jesus appears and tells me not to do it.
8. Someone steals my gun.
9. I lose my gun.
10. I lose the bullets.
11. The bullet gets jammed.
12. A sudden gust changes the path so that the shot isn't fatal.

While some are unlikely, no one can claim that they are impossible. I only need one of these to happen to blow your "absolute end" to pieces.

Hope is not a physical force, but a spiritual force. To be without hope can influence your odds of survival in a negative manner, especially when your survival depends on how much hope you have. While math can be absolute, it is only absolute if you know what the variables are. In life, there is no way to predict what every variable is, nor is there any way to prevent any of them from happening. Therefore, it is impossible to know the outcome of any real life situation.