Young Writers Society

Right, english, teacher says humans without hope would die off from extreme depression.

Well a few things pop in.

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If theres no hope, what dictates that you MUST fall into a depression or despair?
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Secondly, if you know ABSOLUTLY that something WONT happen, is there a point to hope for it to happen?
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I feel that most hope is generated from religion, and as most of you know, I dont believe in religion.
So to me most of that hope is fake.
And a few things I can think of where hope would pop in.

You hope you can win the lottery. Too bad its based on chances. one in a billion, small chances I know, but guess what? one person is winning, thats why I dont find extreme random impossible.

You hope you can dance well tonight. Too bad its based on you.

You hope for a better tomorrow. Might as well not get out of bed, its what you do that makes the day.
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Most of the hope is pointless.

What do you hope for?

I just hope.

Who needs a reason?

The point of hope is that you can't really do anything about it, but you hope anyway.

Without hope there would be nothing. No expectation, no surprises, no looking forward to anything. It would be the same endless repetitive day over and over again, and endless sameness. Thats what there would be without hope.

Hope has a great deal of uncertainty, but the idea that hope is pointless isn't quite accurate.

Hope is a want or desire. To not have hope is to have neither want or desire. It won't kill them immediately, but it will keep them from getting better. When people cease to hope that things will get better, then they will be more prone to accept failure. Victories will be few for these people because they lack desire, an important aspect of success. With little success, they begin a downward spiral. Eventually, they will fall into depression because they can not succeed.

This isn't very obvious because it occurs over several years, even decades.

In extreme situations though, it becomes more obvious. If a person has no hope of seeing their family, then they will succumb to despair and their chances of survival drop. In cases like these, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It becomes the difference between life and death in cases like this.

JigSaw wrote:Without hope there would be nothing. No expectation, no surprises, no looking forward to anything. It would be the same endless repetitive day over and over again, and endless sameness. Thats what there would be without hope.

Why would it be the same repetitive day?

Its not like hope dictates fluff of the day.

So are you saying that the reason you had fun was because of hope? That doesnt make sense.
What does sameness have to do with hope?

In extreme situations though, it becomes more obvious. If a person has no hope of seeing their family, then they will succumb to despair and their chances of survival drop. In cases like these, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It becomes the difference between life and death in cases like this.

Exactly, because he knows he has 0% chance to see his family, not because he thinks its 0%, its because he knows its 0%.

Reminds me of Pandora's box. The story, which is a Greek myth, goes like this: men are starting to become evil, and Zeus isn't really happy about it. So, to make them sorry, he gives them (gasp!) a woman. To this woman, he entrusts a box and tells her never to open it. Well, what does she do? Open it, of course! All these terrible things come out, and mankind is plagued by it. And Pandora, realizing she's made a horrible mistake, shuts the box quickly, just in time to block Hope out.

For Zeus didn't want these terrible things plaguing mankind for eternity. He put Hope in last because, with Hope, all of these evils would have disappeared, if only because people would hope for better things.

It is an interesting thought.

In every mythology, Hope centers in as an almost divine figure. With Hope, anything can be achieved. Impossible things can be done. It's like, someone told every single culture that Hope can change all. It's quite amazing. But that's in mythology. What about now?

Hope still exists.

Even psychology seems to confirm in the existance of Hope. If someone hopes to live, say in the medical realm, they tend to have a brighter outlook of life and live just a little bit longer than someone with the same condition, but a more cynical outlook.

In our wonderful teenage lives, Hope means a lot more. If someone is "hopeless" (and you'll notice that word is popular) it means that person is pointless. There is no point in his life, and he lacks any meaning or direction. Those who are hopeless are more prone to depression and suicidal urges.

And Hope doesn't have to be futile. I have hoped that I would become a good writer. My hope is being realized.

Hope is a very powerful weapon...

Sponson Light wrote:

In extreme situations though, it becomes more obvious. If a person has no hope of seeing their family, then they will succumb to despair and their chances of survival drop. In cases like these, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It becomes the difference between life and death in cases like this.

Exactly, because he knows he has 0% chance to see his family, not because he thinks its 0%, its because he knows its 0%.

Except that this action is not certain. He doesn't know if rescue is coming or not. He could be found in the next ten minutes. Even though there is a low chance, it isn't an impossible one.

One story I remember was one of a man who survived a mudslide. He was trapped in the house, the mud was so high. He survived by drinking his own urine until rescuers were able to reach him. A person who has hope will keep fighting where a person with no hope will submit himself to death.

You started this thread by saying this.

You hope you can dance well tonight. Too bad its based on you.

Well, like the situation above, survival is very much based on the person. A person with nothing to go on for is going to die unless someone rescues him. A person who has hope will keep fighting, he will try to rescue himself or get himself rescued.

Secondly, if you know ABSOLUTLY that something WONT happen, is there a point to hope for it to happen?

If you did, then it would certainly be pointless. This is impossible though unless you are a god. This is unlikely though, since you profess no religion. If you were a god it would be ridiculous to say you didn't believe in yourself.

The problem with your statement is that there is no possible way for any normal person to know what the future will hold even ten seconds into the future. You could predict some things accurately. I could say that I'll still be typing in a couple of seconds. However, this does not apply when you try incorporating outside forces. It is possible that an earthquake might disrupt my typing. Does this mean it will happen? Probably not. As long as there is a possibility of something happening, you can not predict the future with absolute certainty in any condition or environment.

I can not predict what another human being will do at a specific spot in the future, not one minute, not one day, not one month. Each decision that human has to make can determine the future. This means that every decision that a human makes will invariably effect the outcome of the future. Now multiply this by 100,000 people, the size of a big city. If you can know what will happen in the future for 100,000 people over the next ten days, I'll eat my computer.

In science, there is no such thing as 100%. There is only 99.99%.

I have hope that everything will work out in the end.
I have hope that my family will stay safe and as close as we are now.
I have hope in salvation.

My idea of hope is more like optimism than like wishing for something to happen. If we were all pessimists, then we'd all be generally depressed, or at least bitter about things. On the other hand, if we were all optimists, I think the world would get pretty boring and annoying after a short while...

Griffen Keeper, with 4,000,000,000+ people in the world, Ill say 100,000 people are giving birth in the next week.

Start eating your computer.

Except that this action is not certain. He doesn't know if rescue is coming or not. He could be found in the next ten minutes. Even though there is a low chance, it isn't an impossible one.

Did you read my post? I said he knows, and now your saying he doesnt?

Right, I never actually said where he was. So if he's trapped underwater next to an active volcano with lots and lots of explosives in a submarine. Guess what? Noone's going to rescue them.
NOONE.
Noone's going to A. spend the money, B. spend the time, C. spend the resources, D. spend the possible lives.

For a more realistic case, space, the final frontier. What if a space ship drifted millions of miles off course and without food/water/air/fuel? You can hope to be rescued, but that doesnt mean you will.

In the mudslide case. If say Person A. hoped he will live, and drank urine till they came to rescue him, and Person B. stopped hoping but drank urine untill they came to rescue him.

The outcome is that he was still rescued. Hoping doesnt make the chances of you being rescued any higher.

Does your computer include the monitor? If its not an LCD you can use fire to melt the screen a bit, it wont be as sharp and pointy.

In science, there is no such thing as 100%. There is only 99.99%.

and science is related to math, and we all know math can be absolute.
It is 100% that all cells are living. Its obvious, because if its dead its no longer a cell.
If something has expired it is 100% it is no longer living. Unless you revive but then its no longer expired so it no longer applies.

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Just because you hope for it doesnt make it more likely to happen.
If its 3:00 p.m., and an hour from now your parents come home (absolutly)
Hoping they come or not, they're still going to come home an hour from now.

In our wonderful teenage lives, Hope means a lot more. If someone is "hopeless" (and you'll notice that word is popular) it means that person is pointless. There is no point in his life, and he lacks any meaning or direction. Those who are hopeless are more prone to depression and suicidal urges.

If someone is hopeless, they cant do the action right.
John tells Jane, "You are a hopeless cause" while they were working on the automobile.
That means Jane is completely useless.
She can Hope to be good at working on automobiles, but it wont change anything at all.

Griffen Keeper, with 4,000,000,000+ people in the world, Ill say 100,000 people are giving birth in the next week.

Start eating your computer.

Haha funny. Basically, what you just said can be translated into "Every living person in the world will blink in the next 5 seconds." It's quite a dodgy answer, no?

In the mudslide case. If say Person A. hoped he will live, and drank urine till they came to rescue him, and Person B. stopped hoping but drank urine untill they came to rescue him.

WRONG. A person who hoped to be rescued would do all he could to survive as long as possible. A person that didn't hope at all would do absolutely nothing until they died. With hope comes the desire to self-preserve.

"I'm going to die, and no one will rescue me, but I really feel like drinking my pee right now..." isn't really a valid answer, now is it?

It is 100% that all cells are living. Its obvious, because if its dead its no longer a cell.
If something has expired it is 100% it is no longer living. Unless you revive but then its no longer expired so it no longer applies.

You're using those dodgy comebacks again. (There's a 100% chance you will breathe in the next 5 minutes.) Science as a whole, my friend. And I don't even think science reaches 99.9%. Maybe 2%. Science, as I've said before, is based on theory. i.e. Guesses.

If someone is hopeless, they cant do the action right.
John tells Jane, "You are a hopeless cause" while they were working on the automobile.
That means Jane is completely useless.
She can Hope to be good at working on automobiles, but it wont change anything at all.

You misinterpreted what she was saying. She was attributing the actual expression to its assumed origin.

For a more realistic case, space, the final frontier. What if a space ship drifted millions of miles off course and without food/water/air/fuel? You can hope to be rescued, but that doesnt mean you will.

But what if another spacecraft happened to drift offcourse due to the pilot not having his morning coffee, and it just so happens this spacecraft has an arseload of resources. It's a temporary rescue, but hey, atleast you'll live longer.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, those with hope last longer, increasing their chances of being rescued.

If someone is hopeless, they cant do the action right.
John tells Jane, "You are a hopeless cause" while they were working on the automobile.
That means Jane is completely useless.
She can Hope to be good at working on automobiles, but it wont change anything at all.

Calling someone hopeless is not the same.

You notice that Griffinkeeper said that if you can tell what's going to happen to each person within the next 10 days he'll eat his computer; this means if you can tell EVERYTHING that will happen to EACH of them, not just one obvious thing that would happen to that many people.

'In the mudslide case. If say Person A. hoped he will live, and drank urine till they came to rescue him, and Person B. stopped hoping but drank urine untill they came to rescue him. '

If Person B stopped hoping, then he would not have drank his urine. He would have no will [hope] to live, so he would have no motive to keep himself alive.

That wouldnt mean his need to self-preserve would kick in.
You guys think this is manual or something.

No, bobo, he did not.

to directly quote griffen

If you can know what will happen in the future for 100,000 people over the next ten days, I'll eat my computer.

He never said everything, he said what "will happen", he never said quantity, he never gave a specific. Therefore it is his problem that he did not provide a specfic enough question for a specific answer. So my "dodgy" answer, which it is in fact meant to be dodgy, will hold.

You're using those dodgy comebacks again. (There's a 100% chance you will breathe in the next 5 minutes.)

That is very true. and I plan to use them because you guys dont plan to prevent them.

WRONG. A person who hoped to be rescued would do all he could to survive as long as possible. A person that didn't hope at all would do absolutely nothing until they died. With hope comes the desire to self-preserve.

WRONG. A person who stopped hoping would only be retarded to not live it out. Just because he has no hope of being rescued DOES NOT mean he has no will to live.

Are you saying if a person with no hope trapped in a house WITH food or something would MANUALLY choose to not eat?
No, unless they were stupid.
You WOULD still eat, you WOULD still drink, even if you had no hope. You dont suddenly give up eating.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, those with hope last longer, increasing their chances of being rescued.

So if I hoped to live till 208, I can make it to 175? I can always undershoot my mark.
Alright, so if 2 people are trapped in a house, and one hopes he can be rescued, and the other thinks they're both gonna die.
And rescue never comes.
Im sure hope helped both of them.
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You dont need hope to plan the future you know.
You can only hope it goes right.

I can say Im going to the movies tomorrow, I dont hope I go to the movies, I AM going to the movies. Therefore hope is not needed to plan something in the future.
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back to the mudslide case.
Both men would have their self-preservation kick in and keep them alive.
The one without hope wont be praying or stuff like that.
They would both still drink their own urine whether hope or not was involved, because its their natural urge of self-preservation.

Thats like saying people on a stranded island choose not to eat at all even though there is food there because they know they wont be rescued.
Im pretty sure if you were hopeless you'd still eat.