Young Writers Society

Yes.

Forgive a murderer, he's still a murderer, and likely to do it again. Philosophy doesn't work when you apply it to reality.

LamaLama wrote:Forgive a murderer, he's still a murderer, and likely to do it again. Philosophy doesn't work when you apply it to reality.

Forgiving, you know, doesn't mean loosing him on the world to wreak havoc. Justice is meant to be interwoven with mercy.

Justice is meant to protect the weak from the strong, or those that would otherwise wrongfully force themselves upon the innocent. Mercy has nothing to do with it.

LamaLama wrote:Justice is meant to protect the weak from the strong, or those that would otherwise wrongfully force themselves upon the innocent. Mercy has nothing to do with it.

Quoted for truth.

Justice is meant to protect the weak from the strong, or those that would otherwise wrongfully force themselves upon the innocent. Mercy has nothing to do with it.

No, that's not what justice is for: justice is meant to facilitate a peaceful and fair society for everyone. What that means is while the short-term solution is keeping people who would harm others away from those they can harm, the only fair long-term solution is rehabilitation.

The death penalty in any form is just leagalised murder, and it represents a failure of conscience and morality on the part of society to allow it to happen instead of choosing the path of grace and attempting to reintegrate criminals into society. Not stepping in to stop it happening is just one more example of a foreign policy that subverts other authority only where expediant and convienient, and not where moral and justified.

sabradan wrote:So, forgiveness of murderers is really what stops murderers and dictators from being the evil people that they are. That makes TOTAL sense. And we should have forgiven Hitler and Stalin, too, right?

By background bob's pov, yes, we should have. Criminals that need some love.

Yanno bob, not all criminals can be reintigrated. Many don't posses the ability to function normally, and will always be criminals. Those that can, more power too them. I just find it hard to believe Hussein would sit happily screwing heads on barbies.

I'm hearing a lot of, 'things will calm down now'. But there's an equal possibility that his death will be the catalyst for an intenisified surge of violence.

As for justice ... what in the world makes you think that it applies, in Iraq?

I'll leave you with, "The law is stationary, a fixed chariot wheel that grinds all alike..." -Emma Goldman/ just thought that was appropriate.

I doubt that hussein's will bring about peace for Iraq. There are quite a few people pissed off about it.

Justice applies everywhere. Which includes Iraq, last time I checked.

And Emma was wrong, or had she never heard of Jim Crowe? Again, philosophy does not work when applied to reality.

I am disappointed in my people. We had the opportuinity to show ourselves as merciful--and wasted it. backgroundbob is most correct, no man deserves death at the hands of another. He did some very terrible things to his own, and will be judged accordingly. By Allah.

Futhermore, I believe firmly that his death will only increase the violence. Better he sit in a cell somewhere. Anyone who saw his face as the verdit was read knows he is no great evil--just a man as any. A man as concerned for his mortality as any. He, the great Sadaam Hussein, is frightened. He is no huge threat to anyone now. His death, however, will (in my opinion) martyr him. It will symbolizes our own death at the hands of the West and will be used against the United States as justification for rebellion and 'insurgency'.

That was something like I was trying to say, only with a good deal more eloquence.

No offense meant by this statement Bob, but I think that idea is retarded. We learned fifty od years ago that appeasement and forgiveness doesnt work. For once I actually agree with Qi.

What, after the First World War? When the victorious countries piled the blame on Germany, leading to the complete destruction of their economy and social system? Forgiveness and a willingness to rebuild as friends would have avoided creating the despair, victimhood and general sense of wrongness that allowed Hitler to rise in the first place. Just as Khayriyyah indicated, victimising the defeated only makes martyrs of them.

Appeasement is different to forgiveness; the only reason everyone assumes it won't work is because it's never been tried - just on and on with the spiral of death and revenge.

What, after the First World War? When the victorious countries piled the blame on Germany, leading to the complete destruction of their economy and social system? Forgiveness and a willingness to rebuild as friends would have avoided creating the despair, victimhood and general sense of wrongness that allowed Hitler to rise in the first place.

That's a pretty black and white view of things. And there's always gray. And since you're talking about appeasement, I'll take your example. Appeasement didn't work against Hitler, did it? Appeasement won't work now.

Fact is, civil war in Iraq is what is wanted.

I just find it hard to believe Hussein would sit happily screwing heads on barbies.

Agreed. He should be killed. Although there will be controversy, and an increase in hostile actions against police and foreign troops in Iraq, but justice has been served, and I doubt people would sit quiet with him simply locked up anyway. He should no remorse for his actions, and so the death penalty is entirely justified.

As for the comment would cannot debate the morality of things. I think we can. It's linked to the decision made, and it's no doubt linked to the reasoning of people's opinions here.

-Fantasy


*Edit*

Anyone who saw his face as the verdit was read knows he is no great evil--just a man as any. A man as concerned for his mortality as any.

What? Because he fears death he's no great evil? Is that your true opinion? Any man can fear death.