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Swearing



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Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:02 pm
Tenyo says...



Are curse words really that great?

I think unless there is a particular purpose for using bad language and they're used sparingly, curse words are tasteless. They're like cliche's in that they're used to say things that could be expressed in much better ways. Like with people who swear a lot, I tend to lose respect for writers who use curse words pointlessly.

So I wanted to open up a debate. What's your general opinion on swearing, are you pro or against? When you're writing, reading, or in every day conversation.
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Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:28 pm
Shepherd says...



In my writing, I tend to use swearing only if the situation warrants it, or if it allows me to make a point about a character that would be difficult to make, otherwise. I do like to limit it to less abrasive words, but only because I think if (as an author) you overdo it, you end up impairing the reader's ability to understand your point.

From the other side, as a reader, swearing rarely bothers me unless the quality of the writing proves itself to be lacking in other ways. I don't like when it is used to perpetuate a stereotype (hey, yo, we all thugs in da hood, dig?), or in place of other forms of character development. But used correctly, it fades into the overall picture in the same way that generally good writing tends to do. You don't notice that the main character is always chewing his fingernails if it's written well into the piece. The same goes for swearing, in my opinion. If you really notice it, you are either hyper-sensitive (no issue with that), or the writing is deficient in some other way.

In casual conversation, it depends on who I'm with. I don't drop unpleasant imagery into phone conversations with my grandmother, but when out with friends revisiting a great moment? Sure. I agree that it can dampen a good intellectual discussion or an argument, but I think it's esoteric to classify the words themselves as taboo in a more relaxed environment. In general, I feel like it's just another speech affectation (albeit one which must be more carefully monitered, because it tends to be offensive).
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Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:12 pm
Kale says...



Moved to Writing Tips. Ask an Expert is more for getting information on a specific topic you're researching than for debates or writing advice. And I think this thread will become quite a source for advice on if/how/when to use swearing.

Personally, I keep swearing to a minimum in all I do. Excessive profanity really turns me off to whatever situation I encounter it; I've had it ruin whole movies and books. There's oftentimes a much better, stronger way of putting the emotions of the situation into words in the case of writing, and using a swear word often strikes me as a cop out on the author's part. Especially if there are swear words dropped every so often in a supposedly emotional scene.

The only exception I usually make for swearing is if it is part of a character's personality, and not just in the superficial trait sort of manner. A character has to have a good reason to be dropping F-bombs (or equivalents) practically every other word, and the situation they're swearing in/about also has to make sense. If it doesn't, well, so long story; won't be picking you up again unless I get some really good reasons to.
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Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:09 am
LookUpThere says...



Well, religous beliefs aside, I would use swearing at times. Characters are known for their dialogue and talking style. Swearing is just like showing instead of telling. Instead of saying the person coarse, even to children, you could just have him tell a child to get the F****** remote. The sensitivity around swearing is one that can be used greatly. Like writing a story about a priest going through some problems. And having him swear in church! The reader will be surprised and will immediately notice the change in character.

But using it regularly is tasteless. Usually it happens because the character doesn't have a defining personality. The writer gets upset and starts swearing in their mind and it doubles on the page too :D
  





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Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:05 pm
cannibalcorpse3 says...



Despite the fact that this post clearly 404'd about 10 days ago, I feel the need to share with you all this excerpt from the most amazing and actually interesting book on writing you will ever have the great joy of reading:

As with all other aspects of fiction, the key to writing good dialogue is honesty. And if you are honest about the words coming out of your characters’ mouths, you’ll find that you’ve let yourself in for a fair amount of criticism. Not a week goes by that I don’t receive at least one pissed-off letter (most weeks there are more) accusing me of being foul-mouthed, bigoted, homophobic, murderous, frivolous, or downright psychopathic. In the majority of cases what my correspondents are hot under the collar about relates to something in the dialogue: “Let’s get the fuck out of Dodge” or “We don’t cotton much to niggers around here” or “What do you think you’re doing, you fucking faggot?”
My mother, God rest her, didn’t approve of profanity or any such talk; she called it “the language of the ignorant.” This did not, however, keep her from yelling “Oh shit!” if she burned the roast or nailed her thumb a good one while hammering a picture-hook in the wall. Nor does it preclude most people, Christian as well as heathen, from saying something similar (or even stronger) when the dog barfs on the shag carpet or the car slips off the jack. It’s important to tell the truth; so much depends upon it, as William Carlos Williams almost said when he was writing about that red wheelbarrow. The Legion of Decency might not like the word shit, and you might not like it much, either, but sometimes you’re just stuck with it—no kid ever ran to his mother and said that his little sister just defecated in the tub. I suppose he might say pushed or went woowoo, but took a shit is, I fear, very much in the ballpark (little pitchers have big ears, after all).
You must tell the truth if your dialogue is to have the resonance and realism that Hart’s War, good story though it is, so sadly lacks—and that holds true all the way down to what folks say when they hit their thumb with the hammer. If you substitute “Oh sugar!” for “Oh shit!” because you’re thinking about the Legion of Decency, you are breaking the unspoken contract that exists between writer and reader—your promise to express the truth of how people act and talk through the medium on a made-up story.


The chapter only gets more vulgar from there, but I think those few paragraphs sums up the majority of it; how can you not swear if your purpose is to write the truth? It'd be entirely unjust to your characters and your writing if you lied about them to your readers, yeah?

The excerpt was from On Writing by Stephen King, by the way. :D
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Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:49 pm
Rakun says...



For my short story at my creative writing class, my teacher asked to use foreign swearing words; so, I actually consider it more ethical. Specially if my audience (my classmates and teacher) lack of knowledge on the chosen foreign language).

Not only need be a uncommon foreign language, but you also can use less common swearing words from certain known languages; for instance, I used some Norwegian swearing words.

Anyway, all depends of your ethics and principles as well as you do not want be seen so unethical among certain audience

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Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:21 pm
Tenyo says...



Interesting arguments!

Cannibal: That's a very interesting perspective. I want to debate :) I had an interesting discussion not too long ago about the difference between lying and baring false testimony. If a man would swear when stubs his toe on the table at which his children are sat eating dinner, then to write the truth would be to write exactly what he says. But if it is not in his nature to swear- especially in front of his children- and you have him do so, in a sense that's a more subtle lie, because it's giving a false impression of him.

Also, what about writing things like 'he cursed aloud' or 'he said a word his children dared not repeat.' Or following Rakun's perspective and using other languages, or making up words which would stand in place of common curse words. It's the same expresson, but with a different word, isn't it?
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:14 am
LookUpThere says...



Tenyo, to that suggestion I must just say that dialogue should qualify itself. It just sounds bulgy when you write, "Hello," he said adventurously. Because, first of all, how do you say something adventurously? Or aggresively for that matter. "Hello," he said aggresively. Er... what?

However, I agree with the 'he cursed aloud' bit. Words are a great way of showing rather than telling. There are times you can just not use anymore facial expressions.
  





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Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:07 pm
RacheDrache says...



In real life, I don't swear much at all. I swear when I'm angry enough, but I don't get angry that often. This has nothing to do with religious beliefs or the company I keep or even my upbringing, really. Mainly, I'm just obsessive when it comes to language (I'm a linguistics major, after all). Why use #%!@ when you can make up a new word, use an existing word in a new way, or draw a more original analogy? Of course, I don't just limit attempts at being original to cuss words. It's continually open season on the English language for me. Sometimes foreign languages too.

In writing... depends on the story, depends on the character. I usually don't use it in the prose itself, unless it's first person or in third person indirect, but I don't hold back in the dialogue when I am open for it. I have one novel where all cursing was managed in "He swore"s and "He cursed"s and variations because I was attempting to emphasize, subliminally, a certain worldview of the narrator. In that novel's sequel, or at least the revision of that sequel, there'll be F-bombs aplenty, because that's just the way that novel is.

In my main project right now, I'm not going beyond the "b-words" because... well, that's what fit the novel. In my side project, anything's game again.

Spoiler! :
((On a linguistics nerd side note, I just have to mention that the F-word is linguistically awesome. One of the few words that we have in English that can take any part of speech and modify anything with little to no modification on its part. For a hilarious, mature-audiences only example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hgsw5Hg ... re=related ))
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