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the wilhelm scream



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Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:37 am
xxSmileyBubblesxx says...



Spoiler! :
Hey everyone!! me and my new buddy Boson made this poem for the Collab contest and we'd really appreciate some good critiques! Thanks so much!

Peace, love, chocolate,
Smileybubbles


i.

Even a ferryman
mutes his cries, they say,
as the collapsible tugs on
waves like a child’s hand.
Cast river, iron rod,

word of mouth,
house of God.

ii.

Written in stone,
written with fingernails
and charcoal etched in
walls of veins - vales cragged in bones
as twilight veils the eyes of
a moonlit bride and a gown
starts to smell of seas and
shells. i wrote them every day
on my wrist, the names of those
who lay - shrieking porcelain dolls, stiff
armed and thin lipped bitten deep
in flying spit, sprayed on a tattered
coin as they prayed long
after they had dried. But

in cowlicks of stone,
the driving tide of caves—
a bazaar of Gregorian stalactites,
and against the sea, a sky shears
like a pierced side. All the gulls
sink into waves, like blossoms
into a trout-muscled summer, screaming
and petering out. The caves
yawn, sweep open as gods
who swing to life on the first day
and find nothing at all, craving
bipeds from bone.

We pray too,
forsworn rowers.
We play there -
dreams like tributaries
running down the scope
of a lava flow.

He leads me through tidepools
that churn with dumb blood, down
a steep strangle of stone to the cave
and i can see the cramped little
cigarette butts of a couple bored decades
like the gnaw of mice on saints' bones
scattered in the corner. Sea-breath, cold buttons, his jaw
out of the dark, his breath
warm as horse-fed apples.

Styx is a beast. He screams, beat
after beat, arteries clutching against
the seared boat as smoke gives way to
lay away the souls, spread bare
like butter from the whole to the half-jawed
grins laced on the walls, driven in by
thumbs and crow calls. "i shroud my face to
hide the holes from your wretched sockets,
pocked marked bones clutching on to coins
and lockets as you shuffle forth, join us in
holy matrimony and scream out your stony
husks breathy dry as they come, as

i open my mouth,
gulls emerge, stupid-eyed,
voiceless as chambers

and even so, i have had the most hoarse
ache, the most terrible dream, the frothing of
what Cronos never saw and what you will never see!”
Whirlpools of lust given way to echoes of moans
fomenting plots to jump the dinghy as i
fly through the murk to unload my charge;
i play with the greased coins with one hand -
two, four, six eight souls enshrined in gold - and
in the other remember how mother cried.
Wailing from the back row, Picasso's horrified
face justified as the walls spite the tombs of
the unknown, names on my palms split to the
side, etched into Persephone's forced womb—

iii.

—brought fruit totters
onto a cliff of ripeness, such swollen rocks;
branches bend with weight
like drugged voices. One misstep,
to plummet down
the gate of ivory.
At least you can still
hear your color over
the gangrape of bees - two, four
six, your soreness of half-there
wysteria against brick.

We pray to
forsworn rowers.
We play their
dreams like tributaries running down the scope
of a lava flow.

We pray - two,
four, sworn rowers.
(We play). They're dreams,
like tributaries running down the scope of a lava flow.
Last edited by xxSmileyBubblesxx on Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  





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Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:28 am
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Navita says...



This is obviously going to win. Best cowrite I've read yet.

Also -- who are you and what have you done with the real Galerius.

Critique to come once I figure out why Galerius suddenly got another account, or why he sounds like Kylan sometimes, or how on earth two newcomers to YWS can imitate our poetic legends so seamlessly, and -- dare I say it -- do it better in some parts. PM if you feel like explaining yourself.


Navi
  





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Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:36 pm
Button says...



names on my palms etched into
Persephone's forced womb—


Ow. Just sayin'.
  





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Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:00 pm
theotherone says...



Hello Smiley, I'm here as requested!

First off, I want to point out the weird way you've separated this poem... Or maybe not separated but spaced? I'm not sure how to say that... ;)

Written in stone,
written with fingernails
and charcoal etched in
walls of veins
vales cragged in bones * I'm not sure what you meant by cragged...
as twilight veils the eyes of
a moonlit bride and a gown
starts to smell of seas and shells.
Should there be a space here because it's a new subject?
I wrote them every day
on my wrist, the names of those
who lay - shrieking porcelain dolls,
stiff armed and thin lipped bitten deep
in flying spit, sprayed on a tattered
coin as they prayed long
after they had dried.

But in cowlicks of stone,
the driving tide of caves—
a bazaar of Gregorian stalactites,
and against the sea, a sky shears
like a pierced side.
All the gulls sink into waves,
like blossoms into a trout-muscled summer,
screaming and petering out.

The caves yawn, sweep open as gods
who swing to life on the first day
and find nothing at all, craving
bipeds from bone.

This looks more like paragraphs that you just disposed to make it look like a poem. The words are poetic, and seriously, it's pretty good. But the way you disposed it... It's very confusing. That way, there's no definite rhythm, and hard to follow. I'm not sure how to correct that though, apart from switching lines whenever you've got a point/ comma. It might not be the greatest idea though. :)
and I can see the cramped little

"I shroud my face to
hide the holes from your wretched sockets,

as I open my mouth,
gulls emerge, stupid-eyed,
voiceless as chambers

and even so, I have had the most hoarse

Whirlpools of lust given way to echoes of moans
fomenting plots to jump the dinghy as I
fly through the murk to unload my charge;
I play with the greased coins with one hand -
two, four, six comma, eight souls enshrined in gold - and
in the other remember how mother cried.

So this was long. ;) I'm not used to reading poems that long. Apart from that it was good. :)

Keep writing!

-Other One
Behind every mask, lies a man that can't live in his own skin. - Woe is Me <3
Need a reviewer? I don't bite, I promise. :) ---> viewtopic.php?f=188&t=76466
  





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Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:41 am
JabberHut says...



Hello! It's been a while since I've touched poetry, but hopefully I'll have some meaningful feedback.

My feeble poetic mind actually liked this overall! I think the second part's probably my favorite. The sailor-like metaphor from the beginning tied very neatly into the Styx bit. It was kinda cool! And hopefully that's not just me being proud of myself for following it.

The first stanza confused me. Mainly the God bit. I was kind of hoping this would make more sense later, but then we get into Styx. And the jump from God to Greek beliefs messed with my head. But I reeeally like your second part, so perhaps the first stanza can be worked with? "word of mouth, house of God" is it. The lines before it I could follow fine. I just don't see why we're mentioning God here.

And actually, before my brain implodes from thinking so much, I can't make sense of the first part at all. The other two I could, but this one is really hurting my brain. I don't see a tie between this and the title. Except that the ferryman is muting a scream.

You've got some really pretty wording going on here throughout the whole thing. Especially the second part (which is my favorite as already mentioned), but there's a glaring "stupid" somewhere in there. I don't understand the use of the word stupid when the rest of the poem was much more sophisticated. Otherwise, the second part was just full of cool imagery and meaning and tied in with the title rather well! I enjoyed this bit.

I *really* love how you ended this. It tied with the rest of the poem, and that's exactly what I look for when I read the poem. I hate being left hanging with a dumbfounded expression, but this one ended so nicely, it made me smile!

That's all the thoughts I had, I'm afraid. Hopefully you got something out of my feedback. I thoroughly enjoyed this, as much as my feeble poetic mind could! Good luck in the contest. I'm sure you'll give the others a run for their money. :)

Keep writing!

Jabber, the One and Only!
I make my own policies.
  





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Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:31 am
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Dreamwalker says...



Hey there! Dream here, as requested :) And might I saw, interesting choice of words for this piece! I love a well worded poem ;D. But enough about that, lets get to the critiqueing!

i.

Even a ferryman
mutes his cries, they say,
as the collapsible tugs on <-- collapsible? What is collapsible?
waves like a child’s hand.
Cast river, iron rod,

word of mouth,
house of God. <-- Interesting imagery. I like this part quite a bit.

ii.

Written in stone,
written with fingernails
and charcoal etched in
walls of veins - vales cragged in bones <--- you use the word walls again here. It creates a redundancy that you wouldn't want in this sort of a poem. I would change that word.
as twilight veils the eyes of
a moonlit bride and a gown
starts to smell of seas and
shells. i wrote them every day <-- personally speaking, I'm not a fan of putting a period in the middle of a sentence when it comes to poetry. It kills any chance of flow. Try to keep the periods at the end.
on my wrist, the names of those
who lay - shrieking porcelain dolls, stiff
armed and thin lipped bitten deep
in flying spit, sprayed on a tattered
coin as they prayed long
after they had dried. But <-- confusing. You are giving a ton of imagery here, but it doesn't appear to be giving a definable shape unlike the beginning of the stanza where we get a clear view of what you are implying. Here its just a mess of spitting and coins and praying... I'm not quite sure where you are going and I'm not getting the meaning at all.

in cowlicks of stone, <-- try not to end a stanza thats still connected to the one above it. It looks random and it makes the structure seem pointless.
the driving tide of caves—
a bazaar of Gregorian stalactites,
and against the sea, a sky shears
like a pierced side. All the gulls
sink into waves, like blossoms
into a trout-muscled summer, screaming
and petering out. The caves <--- this stanza shows the imagery I like. Imagery that connects. Everything is pretty much a sequence which is absolutely lovely. Keep working with such things like that. Poetry is fluid. It should be able to connect and flow.
yawn, sweep open as gods
who swing to life on the first day
and find nothing at all, craving
bipeds from bone. <-- interesting but confusing once again. I feel as if you may be pulling some of these lines out for effect. Its hard to understand that effect though.

We pray too,
forsworn rowers.
We play there -
dreams like tributaries
running down the scope
of a lava flow. <--- Lava... where did that come from? I know the imagery would be very impacting but in this case it seems ill-used. White-capped waves would have been more profound and more to the point than lava.

He leads me through tidepools
that churn with dumb blood, down <-- dumb blood? Can blood be dumb?
a steep strangle of stone to the cave <-- I like this imagery. Strangle of stone... well worded. Interesting alliteration.
and i can see the cramped little
cigarette butts of a couple bored decades
like the gnaw of mice on saints' bones
scattered in the corner. Sea-breath, cold buttons, his jaw
out of the dark, his breath
warm as horse-fed apples.<-- again, a sentence that doesn't make sense. I suppose apples in the stomach of a horse would be warm... but in what way is that good imagery? :P

Styx is a beast. He screams, beat
after beat, arteries clutching against <-- aterties?
the seared boat as smoke gives way to
lay away the souls, spread bare
like butter from the whole to the half-jawed
grins laced on the walls, driven in by
thumbs and crow calls. "i shroud my face to
hide the holes from your wretched sockets,
pocked marked bones clutching on to coins
and lockets as you shuffle forth, join us in
holy matrimony and scream out your stony
husks breathy dry as they come, as <--- confusing. Interesting imagery but random and sporatically placed.

i open my mouth,
gulls emerge, stupid-eyed,
voiceless as chambers

and even so, i have had the most hoarse
ache, the most terrible dream, the frothing of
what Cronos never saw and what you will never see!”
Whirlpools of lust given way to echoes of moans
fomenting plots to jump the dinghy as i
fly through the murk to unload my charge;
i play with the greased coins with one hand -
two, four, six eight souls enshrined in gold - and
in the other remember how mother cried.
Wailing from the back row, Picasso's horrified
face justified as the walls spite the tombs of
the unknown, names on my palms split to the
side, etched into Persephone's forced womb— <-- I like this stanza. A lot. Its to the point. It connects some of your themes before. It makes sense to some degree. Picasso... I didn't get so much.

iii.

—brought fruit totters
onto a cliff of ripeness, such swollen rocks;
branches bend with weight
like drugged voices. One misstep,
to plummet down
the gate of ivory.
At least you can still
hear your color over <--- again. Poetry, though complicated, should make sense, and lines like 'hearing color' though interesting to the mouth, are confusing to the mind.
the gangrape of bees - two, four
six, your soreness of half-there
wysteria against brick.

We pray to
forsworn rowers.
We play their
dreams like tributaries running down the scope
of a lava flow. <--- again, not feeling the lava flow.

We pray - two,
four, sworn rowers.
(We play). They're dreams,
like tributaries running down the scope of a lava flow.


Okay so, I'm sorry about the mess of colour, but not all of it is bad! Red is immediate changes. Blue is my personal opinions on what should change but don't necessarily need to be adapted. Green is what I enjoyed. Its always good to know the goods and the bads of what you do!

Okay, so now that thats over, time for my analysis/overall

Overall:

I don't know about anyone else, but for me this was a whole lot of words and not a lot of strength. There were some powerful sections which were met with some really weakily worded sections. For that, I don't think I found the real meaning behind this poem. All too much, too soon, and not a lot of explanation as to what most of that imagery went.

You also use a lot of words that don't fit well together, as I quoted up above. Words that I don't think should have been used in the sequence they were used. I feel that a lot of this came across as being thrown at eachother for the affect of being artsy but only really made it feel overdone.

I'm not saying this is bad. Far from. This might be one of my favourite pieces of poetry on YWS these days because of the way the imagery melts together in your stronger areas. I will say your wording is beautiful. You have a way with blending your similies and metaphors so that even if they aren't really 'strong' in comparison to some, they sound absolutely lovely to the ear.

Just strengthen up some of these sections. They are really hard to get through. That and I would love to hear your take on the meaning of this poem if you ever feel like PMing me about it. Its so well-worded that it would be a shame not to understand it. So, if you ever have the chance, feel free to drop me a line, and I'll definitly answer!

Sorry if I was harsh. Sometimes you got to pull out all the guns when reviewing! This time around, I had to because it was hard to find any flaws with structure of emotion. Even sequences. You have your ideas flowing through this. Just really hard to understand them.

Other than that, keep on writing and I'll keep reviewing!
~The.Dreamwalker
Suppose for a moment that the heart has two heads, that the heart has been chained and dunked in a glass booth filled with river water. The heart is monologuing about hesitation and fulfillment while behind the red brocade the heart is drowning. - R.S
  





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Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:43 am
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Aet Lindling says...



Ripoff of Galerius.
dun worry
it's all gun be k
  





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Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:50 pm
Boson says...



Me too, me too! Who did I rip off? This is a collaboration after all.

Boson
  





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Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:20 pm
Aet Lindling says...



Me, obviously.

Edit: Ok, I've been posting too much non-critique stuff on this. Placeholder for review or summat here.
dun worry
it's all gun be k
  





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Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:32 pm
monsterific says...



This sucks. Burn this sorry thing and start over.

- Monsterific
  





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Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:19 am
Juniper says...



Well, hello hello. What have we here,


(This is a totally unrelated, unrelevant, useless comment, but the opening line to this made me think of that Written in the Stars song, haha.)

I'm not much of a critic lately, and truthfully, I appreciate the entirety of this because when I read it aloud, the words roll off the tongue and paint beautiful, beautiful images. Anything that I could find wrong within this is just me digging for something worth picking at, but honestly, the poem is beautiful.

I will say though, that even in all of its beauty, the words are a lot. I very much appreciate the vivid images they create, but, I found myself having to keep a lot of words in my head to get the whole picture -- which is definitely an okay thing for this sort of poem, but it made for images that blurred together (an effect that I generally like in some poems, but the two heads in on this made it feel like it was being pulled in opposing directions, and at some points the images broadened and broadened and never came full circle, I think).


All the gulls
sink into waves, like blossoms
into a trout-muscled summer, screaming


One of my favorite parts! The image is so beautifully melancholic, especially because birds are usually a symbol of hope. The sinking into waves just evokes so many feelings of... not quite helplessness, but something in that direction, and I love it.


Anywhooo, as earlier stated, I have little critique for this, and I'm terrible at reviews as of late. I really lost my touch. However, this poem is thoroughly a job well done. Somehow, in the midst of it feeling like the end of everything and all is lost, optimism held out in here. The poem carried with a depressing tone -- saddening, but not emoistic at all, in the way that makes a reader want to reach out and pull the characters close. Like, a terrible scene in a movie that you don't want to see but can't rip your eyes away from.

I can't think of anything to say, as I have nothing but showers of praise for this. I commend you guys on a job well done-- and hey, you have a brilliant shot at winning that contest.

Always,
June
"I'd steal somebody's purse if I could google it and then download it." -- Firestarter
  





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Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:54 am
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Kale says...



Even a ferryman
mutes his cries, they say,
as the collapsible tugs on
waves like a child’s hand.
Cast river, iron rod,

word of mouth,
house of God.

On the one hand, this sounds absolutely wonderful and rolls off the tongue so well, but on the other hand, the substance is lacking, especially in the last three lines. "Cast river, iron rod, / word of mouth, / house of God." — What does that mean, and how does it tie into the rest of the poem?

As far as I can see, there is no relation, and they are simply there to flesh out the aesthetics of this introduction; not a bad thing in itself, except in a section so brief, the aesthetic needs to contribute directly to the substance. But the two of you already know that.

I did particularly appreciate the "collapsible tugs" play, however it could have been made a bit more initially apparent. Though the image of the ferryman crying out as his boat gives out beneath and dooms him is quite powerful, it relies entirely upon that play, which is all-too easily missed.

a bazaar of Gregorian stalactites,

"Gregorian" struck me as being entirely out-of-place considering the very much non-Christian ferryman appears to be the main subject of the poem. The only other reference to Christianity I spotted was the "house of God" in the first part, and that really isn't strong enough. If you're trying to incorporate Christianity in here somehow, more comparisons and contrasts to the non-Christianity of the ferryman and associates are needed.

sweep open as gods
who swing to life on the first day
and find nothing at all

Coherency > Aesthetics

The two of you seem often caught up in the flow of all the words, their sights and sounds, that you lose sight of the meanings and purposes within them. And so while this poem sounds and looks lovely, it rather lacks in substance and is so limited to superficiality.

cigarette butts of a couple bored decades

Language does not mesh with the rest of the poem at all. Far too modern.

"i shroud my face to
hide the holes from your wretched sockets,
pocked marked bones clutching on to coins
and lockets as you shuffle forth, join us in
holy matrimony and scream out your stony
husks breathy dry as they come, as

i open my mouth,
gulls emerge, stupid-eyed,
voiceless as chambers

and even so, i have had the most hoarse
ache, the most terrible dream, the frothing of
what Cronos never saw and what you will never see!”

Who is the speaker? It seems to shift between a soul seeking passage, the ferryman, and perhaps something else.

We pray to
forsworn rowers.
We play their
dreams like tributaries running down the scope
of a lava flow.

We pray - two,
four, sworn rowers.
(We play). They're dreams,
like tributaries running down the scope of a lava flow.

Interesting use of repetition here.

Overall, the allusions were many, scattered, and too loosely threaded within the fabric of the poem to contribute to it. In fact, they often detracted as I was tossed out of the flow, wondering "Where did that come from? And how does it tie into the rest of the poem?" And oftentimes, for the sake of a scene, superfluous threads were added, or necessary-yet-mundane neglected, which made no sense in the context of the larger tapestry.

Trim this. Draw out the loose and fraying threads and cut them, weaving in new ones where needed. The fabric will be much smoother for it, and the tapestry more cohesive on a whole.
Secretly a Kyllorac, sometimes a Murtle.
There are no chickens in Hyrule.
Princessence: A LMS Project
WRFF | KotGR
  





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Sun May 15, 2011 5:49 am
Kafkaescence says...



Whoa. I really could've sworn I took care of this review a long time ago, but it seems I neglected to. I hope you accept my full apology. Anyway, let's get started.

I really have no idea where you were trying to go with this piece. It seems you have some amount of intention and sense of direction, but the way you present your various icons and images, which are supposed to help clarify a moral, only muddle and obstruct it. If you really want to include such a large variety of hidden meanings and the like, you should expand this, and in doing this expand a bit more on these metaphors. For example:
and even so, i have had the most hoarse
ache, the most terrible dream, the frothing of
what Cronos never saw and what you will never see!”
Whirlpools of lust given way to echoes of moans
fomenting plots to jump the dinghy as i
fly through the murk to unload my charge;
i play with the greased coins with one hand -
two, four, six eight souls enshrined in gold - and
in the other remember how mother cried.
Wailing from the back row, Picasso's horrified
face justified as the walls spite the tombs of
the unknown, names on my palms split to the
side, etched into Persephone's forced womb—

This stanza would be wonderful if you didn't clog it up with these annoying little spurts of contradictory images. Honestly, this could be interpreted in such a large variety of ways that it's pathetic how you expect the reader to tie every single detail together into one underlying scheme. What you need to do is back up your images and analogies with some actual substance, so that the reader can at least get some kind of clue as to what you're trying to say. You've touched the surface as far as meaning, but your foundations need quite a bit of fixing up.

Then there's imagery. This is another problem, one that actually makes your case for the moral of this poem even worse. In some cases, one could justify erratic imagery with a powerful message, but here, since neither hold much of an impact, it's unclear which you were attempting to support, and this in turn births a sense of purposelessness in your poem. Toward the beginning, I enjoyed how you always brought things back to the beach metaphor - readers like consistency. However, your discontinuation of this somewhat annoyed me, and this was when I can really detect the meandering quality of this piece. I would take away some of the unnecessary use of symbolism in the second half, and add a bit more beach references.

Hope this helped. Again, sorry for being this late.

-Kafka
#TNT

WRFF
  








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