Young Writers Society

Kammie, please. I wasn't trying to argue with anyone. I apologise if it's come across the wrong way to you. I'll shut up now. Okay?

Of course not Amy! I think everyone is very opinionated here, and I never took anything the wrong way! *huggles*

I was just making a suggestion because arguing over points is silly.



Right now, Nate (if you're reading this): I think you should do as you wish, you'll never get a 100% support, but you know what you're doing and you're a sensible guy, if what you set in place does not work, you'd change it back. If I'm allowed to assume of course, but I trust your judgment on this.

I don't like the badges. That is what I have to say.

Everyone's being so serious about this. I don't think the point of this thread was to argue with each other, was it? O____o

Rosey-- We-we're looked down upon? T-T They think I'm a loser?!

Nah, just kidding.

To be honest, this conversation may be going on circles, but I think it's because people just want to say how they feel. Personally, I already know wherever we're going is going to be great. I remember YWS last year around this time, it was a completely differen't place, and the chatroom O___o whoa.

I don't know how it got to this, but I'm just going to throw some rocks in the pool because I /feel the need for them to sit there/ or what not.

If people think purple and blue colors stand out too much, then how come we can't give the regular members a title that's more shiny. I mean, maybe instead of black, white, since if you were to give them any other color that's not neutral, it wouldn't match?

For the new badges you have, I'm so happy they're shiny *___*

Hmm... for the instructor and greeter groups, maybe they wouldn't sound so exclusive if they were "The Reviewing Group" and the "Greeting Group" because when you call it "instructor's group" or "greeter's group" it sounds so, so possessive, like the instructors and greeters actually own it or something. They're supposed to be dedicated to improving reviewing and greeting.

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I have some questions, just so this won't go in circles. If we remove the purps and blues, then who's going to host those events in the chatroom? You know, the mentoring events, not only in the chatroom. How will the right mentors be chosen to teach? Or will the JM's and M's be the only ones doing that?

If it is only the mod squad, what about those other regular members that are "qualified" or, what's a better word for it, "ready" to teach?
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Next question: Instructor chatroom? Is it going bye-bye or will it just be renamed to "reviewing corner" ? O___o but that doesn't.... sound right.

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And lastly, just curious, but are these the only badges you plan to award? Or will there be... more? If you do change it in the future and give out badges, hopefully they won't be viewable whenever we post. I'd rather have it tucked on our profile in some sort of ribbon case-- Okay, I need to quit imagining this whole thing as a pokemon game.

Thanks Nate ^^ Oh! And Rosey and Snoink and all the mods responsible for the awesome

-Shina

Overall, I like the proposed changes a lot. I'm a bit leery about nixing the review requirement entirely (is it really up to a 5:1 ratio? O_O) since it was one of the reasons I joined in the first place, but I think this site is large enough and has enough committed reviewers to survive without it. The 48 hours limit is fine also.

Now, as for the colors/badges bit, I personally like the badges. I think they're a lot more accessible to the userbase at large than the groups. In addition, the "award" process is much more transparent and accessible to everyone at large.

That said, one of the arguments for keeping the colors is that it make it visually obvious to new users who they can go to to ask questions. This is a really good point, I think, even if some new users find it intimidating at first.

What I'm proposing is a compromise of sorts -- the Greeters and Instructor groups be nixed, but a new group with a different color (I'm thinking bright orange would be good) would be formed. The purpose of this new group would be to answer questions users may have about the site in general. As such, the members of this group would have to have a fairly extensive knowledge of where everything is on the site and where things can be found.

As with the badges system, these users would not be reprimanding other users, and they would have no site powers or privileges, though there would be a public forum for these helpers, or at least one they can be based out of (like a forum devoted to shortcuts and links to other parts of the forum). Also, like the badges system, I think that new members should be nominated by their peers. Approval could then be directly done by a mod, or it could be put up to a general vote in their own respective forum.

Just an idea.

Ratio is down to 3:1 now, I think, and it's back to honor code. However, there was such a madness involved in changing it, I'm not entirely sure if it's stuck at 3:1 or if it's now back down to 2:1. I do know that it didn't ever go higher than 3:1, but aside from that, I've seen both answeres offered to those who ask about it. The beauty of no review ratio is that the confusion is gon and you cna rely on your own judgement.

Though I agree, I'm a little wary about this change too. I'm all for keeping an open mind, though. We can see how it goes, and if it's an utter failure, I'm fairly certain it won't stick around for long. If it's good, then it's good. Win-win either way.

...I'm in favour of Kyllorac's idea

One of my major concerns and I think, one of the strengths of the groups is their visibility, in the sense that they're easy to spot in a crowd and people know who to go to in order to get the information/reviewing help they need. If there was a new group of users -- like roving Information Points -- that could work nicely. That way the badges can fit in a little smoother and the whole process will go down a lot easier...

I think. XD

Well, it's one of the better ideas anyway. Of course you could forego that and just have the JM's work overtime on it

I thought what Kyllorac was proposing was kind of like what the JMs did/are supposed to do? I don't know. I kinda like the idea, but at the same time it just looks like the Greeters under a different coat.

Too many posts to read so just responding to Kyllorac's idea. I like it a lot, and I was wondering if instead of the nomination process, we go through a sort of application process instead. I say sort of because the application would just be a quiz to test one's YWS knowledge.

Also, a note to a few: In the past 20 replies, there are three or four people who keep arguing back and forth. Please stop this. You're just spamming the thread.

Nate wrote:Too many posts to read so just responding to Kyllorac's idea. I like it a lot, and I was wondering if instead of the nomination process, we go through a sort of application process instead. I say sort of because the application would just be a quiz to test one's YWS knowledge.

I actually really like this idea. Would all the current instructors/greeters become automatically in the group or would we have to re-apply? (take the quiz)

Of course you could forego that and just have the JM's work overtime on it

I thought what Kyllorac was proposing was kind of like what the JMs did/are supposed to do?

But we wouldn't want to overwork our dear JMs, would we? And I suppose it would be very similar to what the Greeters are currently doing, but a bit more all-encompassing than just the greeting new members side, which is what most Greeters seem to focus on (not that that's a bad thing. ;P).

I like it a lot, and I was wondering if instead of the nomination process, we go through a sort of application process instead. I say sort of because the application would just be a quiz to test one's YWS knowledge.

That sounds like a good (and parctical) idea.

I actually really like this idea. Would all the current instructors/greeters become automatically in the group or would we have to re-apply? (take the quiz)

Reapply, I should hope. Just because an instructor/greeter is good at reviewing and greeting does not mean they know where everything is. Also, I think there would be cries of favoritism if all current instructors/greeters were given a free pass into the new group.

What I'm proposing is a compromise of sorts -- the Greeters and Instructor groups be nixed, but a new group with a different color (I'm thinking bright orange would be good) would be formed. The purpose of this new group would be to answer questions users may have about the site in general. As such, the members of this group would have to have a fairly extensive knowledge of where everything is on the site and where things can be found.

As with the badges system, these users would not be reprimanding other users, and they would have no site powers or privileges, though there would be a public forum for these helpers, or at least one they can be based out of (like a forum devoted to shortcuts and links to other parts of the forum). Also, like the badges system, I think that new members should be nominated by their peers. Approval could then be directly done by a mod, or it could be put up to a general vote in their own respective forum.

So what Kyllorac is suggesting is...remove the Instructors and keep the Greeters. Is this it? Is there something here that I'm not understanding?

This is going to be my last post on this thread, but I do wonder why people are so eager to destroy when they can instead reform. When was the last time that the Instructor group was thoroughly reviewed and changed to fit the times? Why is it that the only solution people can see is to level the whole building because a part of it is rotting? There are so many reforms that can be put into place, such as the changes in the way applications are approved, the opening of the Instructor forum, and such that will help to alleviate some of the tensions that non-Instructors complain about.

Is it too much to ask that these smaller changes be at least tried and evaluated before we jump into the ocean and begin such a massive undertaking as the removing of entire, 60-person usergroups?

This entire discussion is ominously starting to sound like the health-care overhaul.

But please, do put it to a 60-majority vote.

I'll be fine with anything that will be decided in the end.

I don't want to offend anyone, but it's just a part of your internet lives and therefore I think you can get over whatever gets decided.

Thanks for putting up with the heat, Nate.

So many people have made wonderful points. ^-^ However, I hope you don't mind if I add a bit to the discussion.

Firstly, I think no more than two works for every 48 hours is a perfectly fine number. It'll prevent people from posting too much and help others with their writing.

Secondly, I'm a little iffy about the badges. I'm having the same issue that it could become a 'status' problem, but I like how it would be more individualized. I agree, Nate, that it is more like an award system.

Lastly, and I hope you all don't mind me bringing this in, I feel that more people being black would be a good idea. I know that at one point I wanted to be a greeter; however, I realize that I probably would have stressed myself out with the job. Stressed out, you ask? Well, I would have forced myself to keep up to the status quo. I know that not everyone does this because everyone is different, but being black makes things a bit more personal. I really don't know how to explain it, but basically I just think Nate is one-hundred percent correct in thinking about removing colors. Even though some disagree, I believe it wouldn't hurt to try it out.

I feel like I'm adding fuel to the fire, but I really just had to say something. Every has really good points. Please don't take my opinions to heart or anything.

Smiles!
~Mira

Galerius wrote:So what Kyllorac is suggesting is...remove the Instructors and keep the Greeters. Is this it? Is there something here that I'm not understanding?

More like creating a group to help the JMs with part of their responsibilities. These helpers would, as I see it, be very much like JMs except without the powers. They would exist only to guide users to where they could find the answers to their questions and free up the JMs to focus on the moderator aspects of their role.

From what I understand, Greeters originally just greeted new members and directed them toward the rules and such so that the new folks could participate right away. Over time, as people asked them more questions about where things were and so on, the Greeters took on this part of the JMs role until it got to the point that the JMs didn't have to help users find things because most users were asking the Greeters. So I suppose, in a way, you could see this group as a replacement for the Greeters, only greeting wouldn't be a requirement for the job.

Personally, I don't see a reason for the Instructors group to continue existing. There is a whole forum devoted to requesting reviews, and users can easily look at other users' reviews to determine their quality. People who wish to review will continue reviewing, and it isn't as if there is no reward for reviewing (badges, stars, and points).

And considering the points, with the death of the review ration and the advent of the 2/48 hour system, I can see the point system coming more prominently into play, which is a really good thing. Right now, the point system seems pretty redundant to me, and the only thing it really prevents is a huge flood of posts from a new member who has never reviewed before. Perhaps there can be incorporated a feature where, for maybe 500 points per piece, one could post more than the limit of 2/48 hours?