Who had the happier ending? (LOTR)

Okay... a weird question, I know. But who had the happier ending, Frodo, who lived but was forever changed by the ring and never adjusted back to his former life, or Gollum, who died with the ring, unchanged but happy.

What say you guys?

Well, even though Gollum did have the ring for a few seconds and died happily, he still didn't get to keep it (although the circumstances were rather unusual). But I can see where you're coming from Snoink, maybe he did get the better deal in the end.

FARAMIR! *cough*

This is a great point, Snoink. I think that Frodo had the happier ending, because it you consider how Gollum spent most of his life - wasting away in a cave because of the ring - it's hard to believe he finds his happy ending in the one thing that subjected him to such a fate. Whereas, Frodo gets to go to away with Gandalf on a nifty boat. I would rather go on a nifty boat than fall into Mt. Doom.

What are you talking about? Frodo got to go to Valinor! He clearly had the way better deal.

I think neither of them got a good deal, both were damaged by the Ring, but perhaps Frodo will be healed in Valinor... I think Samwise Gamgi got the best ending. What happened to Merry and Pippin? Gos my memory's bad...Im not even sure those are the right names XD. God, dont make me think about the ending, i'll start getting emotional lol.

In other news, Christopher Tolkien has spent the last 20yrs piecing together a novel from unfinished manuscripts left behind by his father, and it will be released soon!! Yayness.

I think that Frodo had the better deal. Sure, he was emotionally damaged by the Ring and all, but if you look at how he acted when the Ring was finally destroyed, it looks as though he had - at that moment - got a lot of what he had lost back to himself. If that makes sense. He went to Valinor because, quote, some things never really heal, end quote. Yet he could live at peace in Valinor, with the Elves, Bilbo, and later Sam.
Frodo had had a happy life before the Ring came to him, but he did have a traumatic start in life, with his parents drowning. Then Bilbo came along and took him in, but later it was Bilbo who passed the Ring over to him. Frodo might have felt bitter over that; but all in all, he had a happy and peaceful existance, and although he could not be truly at peace until he went to Valinor, the last years of his life in the Shire were happy with Sam and Rosie and their children.

Now, Gollum, on the other hand, did not (if we're going by Gandalf's story) appear to have a happy beginning. He grew up sly and secrective. Maybe that's why when he is furious with Frodo for "betraying" him to Faramir, he calls him, "wicked, tricksy, false, etc." because those are things he sees in himself, and hates in himself. Gollum was a Stoor hobbit, and they look too close to men to be comfortable hobbits. He was driven away from his family, and transformed from Sméagol to Gollum over many twisted years. Looking at the beginning of the film ROTK, it certainly seems nasty. And again, if we're going by the film ROTK, Gollum has a look on his face as he dies which suggests that he realized at the end that the Ring was not his and never could be. It doesn't suggest that Gollum died happy. However, if we're going by the book ROTK, it's open to speculation. We're not shown what happened after Gollum's mad dance, so we don't know what his feelings were. But thinking about it, if he did die happy with his Precious, it was not the right sort of happiness. He was exaulting in what he thought was his power, in the thought that now the Ring was his, and that he could do anything, that all would be his. He was too drunk with joy to notice the danger of going over the edge, and what sort of joy is that? Gollum must have known this as well, in the Sméagol part of his mind - look at his behaviour in TTT, when he sees Frodo and Sam asleep (this isn't shown in the film). There, it shows that Sméagol was not totally lost in the Gollum personality. Sméagol would have realized this in the moment of his dying; he might even have been glad for the release of death.

And, Jiggity, it's Gamgee. Merry and Pippin both got married and lived happily ever after. Pippin got married to Diamond Took, and Merry to Estella Bolger. They both had children - no records of Merry's children, but it's assumed he had at least one, and Pippin had one son, Faramir Took.
And yeah, I heard that about those manuscripts! Go Tolkein Junior!

-ST

Shadow, you know too much about LOTR. You make my head spin! lol

Tee hee! I have been told that... I am unashamedly a LOTR freak.

Lookit this, it just sounds rather familiar.... "Its a nerd thing. You wouldn't understand"...

Ahahaha, that comic rules.

Frodo was happier, being in a kind of heaven with all the elves and wizards. But I think that the happiest person at the end would be Sam, he had a family and all with his whole lfe ahead of him.

The book Tolkein Junior pieced together was abandoned by Tolkein Senior in favour of work and other books. It includes incest and a double suicide 0_0

"I'm sitting up front so Orlando's dreamy eyes are as big as possible."

Funny, I sat as close as I could get to the screen for that exact reason (I was eleven, give me a break. And I cared about everything else just as much as Orlando's dreamy eyes)

But yeah, I think Sam did get the best deal; getting to live out his later years in the company of his family and friends. That's what I would want at least, after a journey like that.

Urggh. He doesn't have dreamy eyes. I NEVER thought that he had dreamy eyes.

Oh, and for those who are sticklers for copyright being given where copyright is due, the cartoon is from this site: http://arwen-undomiel.com/humor_img.php?page=9

-ST

Snoink wrote:Okay... a weird question, I know. But who had the happier ending, Frodo, who lived but was forever changed by the ring and never adjusted back to his former life, or Gollum, who died with the ring, unchanged but happy.

What say you guys?

Frodo. Presence and choice were part of his end, forgiveness for slipping-up along with the knowledge of a right task done and finished. Gollum died a junkie, in all senses of that word, with at best a last fix.

If that's happiness, there's no need to pursue it. If Frodo's is happiness, it's painful but well-earned.

Gollum had been long changed, after all, changed from something natural to twisted caricature of a living thing. He died unchanged from that.

OK i believe that frodo did because he got to go to a nice place and relax.

Gollum reminds me of a herione addict.

But out of teh whole book who gets the best ending? Aragon of course. He finally becomes king after years of being lonely and sad.

One thing niggles me about the book though. If gandalf goes away and there can only be One white wizard who i slooking after all the nice wizards? they are without leadership.

(in the last scene of Return Of The king [the movie] in teh cinema you could see a bungee cord on one of teh ships instead of a rope. they edited it out for the DVD =[)