Young Writers Society

backgroundbob wrote:So now stupidity and/or standing up for yourself are punishable by death? We wouldn't have anyone on the face of the planet if that were true.

Quite frankly, getting yourself killed doesn't do your cause any good. If people want to make a difference in the world, they need to figure out a way to do so without getting killed. Martyrdom doesn't really work unless there are people behind you, and in the case of Palestine? Well, I don't know many people behind that cause.

Yes, but it doesn't mean she got what she deserved OR what she wanted.

Who cares what she wanted? She deserved what she got, not because she was stupid, but because her actions deserve the end that happened. Firstly, she wasn't defending herself, or standing up for her personal rights. She was standing up for the rights of the so-called Palestinians, or as I prefer, the adjacent Jew-haters. There is thousands of pages of evidence that proves that the Palestinians aren't so much concerned about self-determination, as they are with destroying the self-determination of the Jews of Israel. Rachel Corrie was interfereing in a military operation, that was being undertaken to secure the safety of Israeli citizens. If she wanted to protest the Israeli policy, there are plenty of ways she could have done it that I would have been fine with. It was her oppinion that Israel was in the wrong. She was wrong, but its fine if she wants to voice that oppinion. (Voltaire and all that) HOWEVER, she chose a way to protest that was wrong, and could have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Israelis. And I could care less about the death of one stupid, American b**ch, especially when it saves hundreds of Israeli lives. By interfering in a military operation, she signed her death warrant, and she deserves what she got. May she burn in hell forever.
(I would feel the same way if she interfered in an American military operation. It has very little to do with the fact that she was anti-Israel).
@kiashana:
Unfortunately for us, there are way too many misguided individuals who support the Palestinian cause, and in so doing, Demonize Israel, zionists, and yes, Jews in general. Have you ever heard the phrase "Zionists are Nazis"? Well I have, too many times. I've been called a Nazi to my face, simply because I am Israeli, and after I graduate will be entering the Israeli Paratroopers. For someone who lost family and family freinds at Majdanek and Auschwitz, let me tell you, it is the most offensive and hurtful thing I have ever heard. Unfortunately, too many people are miguided and swayed by arab propaganda to listen to facts and logic. *le sigh*

Thankfully for the interests of representativeness, there's just as much Jewish propaganda as there is Arab propaganda.

To be honest, everything you've just said could be applied to Israelies as well: somehow, I don't think that their hands are clean in these matters either. I've heard both sides of the story more times than I can care to think about, with both feeling that they've been wronged more than the other - Arab suicide bombers, Israeli tanks and missiles: both have been hurt, and both have been doing the hurting.

Firstly, she wasn't defending herself, or standing up for her personal rights. She was standing up for the rights of the so-called Palestinians, or as I prefer, the adjacent Jew-haters.

There are those of us in society who sometimes care to stand up for the rights of those who aren't capable of doing it for themselves; there are, oddly enough, those of us who care enough to actually get something done about something we believe in. Just because something doesn't directly involve you doesn't mean you shouldn't do something about it - what does that famous WW2 poem say?

"First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me."

My position is as it has always been - if something is worth believing in, it's worth fighting for, however close to home it is, or not as the case may be. It would be a sad, self-interested world if we all huddled in our corners and only lashed when someone tried to attack us.
As for the "adjacent Jew-haters", I think there's equally as much evidence to label Israelies the "adjacent Arab-haters".

Basically, everything you've said is extremely patriotic, but totally one-sided (as most patriotic things are). "She can burn in hell" is exactly the attitude that's fueling the middle-east conflict, and has done for generations - if you honestly can't forgive and understand someone fighting on behalf of someone else's rights, no matter how misguidedly, then what hope is there for ever extending the hand to your Arab neighbours? And so the cycle continues, blood-debt following blood-debt, with no-one willing to admit they're wrong. God send the end of the world comes soon, because hearing this inanely one-sided babble from everyone who's remotely involved is starting to make me sick.

Personally, I could care less about the rights of those who are killing my people. Each to their own first, and then to the wider world, and all that. Now, Im not saying "lets go kill em all!" but if they want to die trying to kill us, so they can go to heaven and get 72 virgins, I have no qualms speeding up the process. I realize Israel may have done some things that it shouldn't have done, but for the most part, Israel is in the right, and has ALWAYS tried to take the moral high ground, because for precisely this reason: We know that people will criticize us harder than other nations, and we will be set to a double standard. Is it right? No. Does it happen? yes. All the time.

And I say "Adjacent Jew-haters" because there is not now, nor was there ever a legitimate nation called "Palestine". The whole existence of the "Palestinian People" is bs propaganda thought up by Arab leaders to de-legitimize Israel. Yassir Arafat himself was born in Cairo, and had never been to Israel/"Palestine" until he was in his twenties. There is not now, nor was there ever a legitimate "Palestinian" people. The arabs that were living in Israel before the establishment were for the most part semi-nomadic Hashemite squaters that migrated out of Jordan for one reason or another.

Of course, you have your oppinion and I have mine. Neither of us are going to convince each other of our oppinion. Shall we just agree to disagree?

Let me just say this, however:
For thousands of years, the Jews were pacifists, who just bent over whenever the Christians (if they lived in Christendom) or the Muslims (if they lived in the arab world) wanted to oppress them. My dad told me a story once, about when my great-great grandfather was in Russia, and the Russians were starting a pogrom. Instead of trying to defend themselves and their families and their properties, what did the Jewish men do? They went to the synogogue and prayed for god to send the Messiah! While they're women were being RAPED, they were RECITING PSALMS!
And now, we finally have a country, after the single worst massacre of our people ever. We finally are a strong people, in our own nation, with a strong army. We will never go back to the way they were before. We will never be weak, we will never surrender and we will never kow tow to another groups' will or idea of what a Jew is supposed to be/do. I refuse to return to the ghetto. I will not be Dhimmi-ed. I will not return to the ghetto or to ghetto Judaism. I refuse. Call me a racist, a radical, a fascist. The Black Panthers were called the same things in American when they fought and spoke and incited for their equality. I WILL NOT RETURN TO THE WAY THINGS WERE BEFORE.
If you blow up a bus with innocent Jewish children in it, I am going to send tanks and bulldozers to your village, and destroy your house/village. Its that simple. When they figure that simple fact out, and when they figure out that they can't bomb us into submission, and as Golda Meir once said (paraphrased): When they learn to love their children more than they hate us, maybe then there will be peace.

Personally, I could care less about the rights of those who are killing my people. Each to their own first, and then to the wider world, and all that. Now, Im not saying "lets go kill em all!" but if they want to die trying to kill us, so they can go to heaven and get 72 virgins, I have no qualms speeding up the process. I realize Israel may have done some things that it shouldn't have done, but for the most part, Israel is in the right, and has ALWAYS tried to take the moral high ground, because for precisely this reason: We know that people will criticize us harder than other nations, and we will be set to a double standard. Is it right? No. Does it happen? yes. All the time.

And I say "Adjacent Jew-haters" because there is not now, nor was there ever a legitimate nation called "Palestine". The whole existence of the "Palestinian People" is bs propaganda thought up by Arab leaders to de-legitimize Israel. Yassir Arafat himself was born in Cairo, and had never been to Israel/"Palestine" until he was in his twenties. There is not now, nor was there ever a legitimate "Palestinian" people. The arabs that were living in Israel before the establishment were for the most part semi-nomadic Hashemite squaters that migrated out of Jordan for one reason or another.

Of course, you have your oppinion and I have mine. Neither of us are going to convince each other of our oppinion. Shall we just agree to disagree?

Let me just say this, however:
For thousands of years, the Jews were pacifists, who just bent over whenever the Christians (if they lived in Christendom) or the Muslims (if they lived in the arab world) wanted to oppress them. My dad told me a story once, about when my great-great grandfather was in Russia, and the Russians were starting a pogrom. Instead of trying to defend themselves and their families and their properties, what did the Jewish men do? They went to the synogogue and prayed for god to send the Messiah! While they're women were being RAPED, they were RECITING PSALMS!
And now, we finally have a country, after the single worst massacre of our people ever. We finally are a strong people, in our own nation, with a strong army. We will never go back to the way they were before. We will never be weak, we will never surrender and we will never kow tow to another groups' will or idea of what a Jew is supposed to be/do. I refuse to return to the ghetto. I will not be Dhimmi-ed. I will not return to the ghetto or to ghetto Judaism. I refuse. Call me a racist, a radical, a fascist. The Black Panthers were called the same things in American when they fought and spoke and incited for their equality. I WILL NOT RETURN TO THE WAY THINGS WERE BEFORE.
If you blow up a bus with innocent Jewish children in it, I am going to send tanks and bulldozers to your village, and destroy your house/village. Its that simple. When they figure that simple fact out, and when they figure out that they can't bomb us into submission, and as Golda Meir once said (paraphrased): When they learn to love their children more than they hate us, maybe then there will be peace.

Personally, I could care less about the rights of those who are killing my people. Each to their own first, and then to the wider world, and all that. Now, Im not saying "lets go kill em all!" but if they want to die trying to kill us, so they can go to heaven and get 72 virgins, I have no qualms speeding up the process. I realize Israel may have done some things that it shouldn't have done, but for the most part, Israel is in the right, and has ALWAYS tried to take the moral high ground, because for precisely this reason: We know that people will criticize us harder than other nations, and we will be set to a double standard. Is it right? No. Does it happen? yes. All the time.

And I say "Adjacent Jew-haters" because there is not now, nor was there ever a legitimate nation called "Palestine". The whole existence of the "Palestinian People" is bs propaganda thought up by Arab leaders to de-legitimize Israel. Yassir Arafat himself was born in Cairo, and had never been to Israel/"Palestine" until he was in his twenties. There is not now, nor was there ever a legitimate "Palestinian" people. The arabs that were living in Israel before the establishment were for the most part semi-nomadic Hashemite squaters that migrated out of Jordan for one reason or another.

Of course, you have your oppinion and I have mine. Neither of us are going to convince each other of our oppinion. Shall we just agree to disagree?

Let me just say this, however:
For thousands of years, the Jews were pacifists, who just bent over whenever the Christians (if they lived in Christendom) or the Muslims (if they lived in the arab world) wanted to oppress them. My dad told me a story once, about when my great-great grandfather was in Russia, and the Russians were starting a pogrom. Instead of trying to defend themselves and their families and their properties, what did the Jewish men do? They went to the synogogue and prayed for god to send the Messiah! While they're women were being RAPED, they were RECITING PSALMS!
And now, we finally have a country, after the single worst massacre of our people ever. We finally are a strong people, in our own nation, with a strong army. We will never go back to the way they were before. We will never be weak, we will never surrender and we will never kow tow to another groups' will or idea of what a Jew is supposed to be/do. I refuse to return to the ghetto. I will not be Dhimmi-ed. I will not return to the ghetto or to ghetto Judaism. I refuse. Call me a racist, a radical, a fascist. The Black Panthers were called the same things in American when they fought and spoke and incited for their equality. I WILL NOT RETURN TO THE WAY THINGS WERE BEFORE.
If you blow up a bus with innocent Jewish children in it, I am going to send tanks and bulldozers to your village, and destroy your house/village. Its that simple. When they figure that simple fact out, and when they figure out that they can't bomb us into submission, and as Golda Meir once said (paraphrased): When they learn to love their children more than they hate us, maybe then there will be peace.

Personally, I could care less about the rights of those who are killing my people. Each to their own first, and then to the wider world, and all that. Now, Im not saying "lets go kill em all!" but if they want to die trying to kill us, so they can go to heaven and get 72 virgins, I have no qualms speeding up the process. I realize Israel may have done some things that it shouldn't have done, but for the most part, Israel is in the right, and has ALWAYS tried to take the moral high ground, because for precisely this reason: We know that people will criticize us harder than other nations, and we will be set to a double standard. Is it right? No. Does it happen? yes. All the time.

And I say "Adjacent Jew-haters" because there is not now, nor was there ever a legitimate nation called "Palestine". The whole existence of the "Palestinian People" is bs propaganda thought up by Arab leaders to de-legitimize Israel. Yassir Arafat himself was born in Cairo, and had never been to Israel/"Palestine" until he was in his twenties. There is not now, nor was there ever a legitimate "Palestinian" people. The arabs that were living in Israel before the establishment were for the most part semi-nomadic Hashemite squaters that migrated out of Jordan for one reason or another.

Of course, you have your oppinion and I have mine. Neither of us are going to convince each other of our oppinion. Shall we just agree to disagree?

Let me just say this, however:
For thousands of years, the Jews were pacifists, who just bent over whenever the Christians (if they lived in Christendom) or the Muslims (if they lived in the arab world) wanted to oppress them. My dad told me a story once, about when my great-great grandfather was in Russia, and the Russians were starting a pogrom. Instead of trying to defend themselves and their families and their properties, what did the Jewish men do? They went to the synogogue and prayed for god to send the Messiah! While they're women were being RAPED, they were RECITING PSALMS!
And now, we finally have a country, after the single worst massacre of our people ever. We finally are a strong people, in our own nation, with a strong army. We will never go back to the way they were before. We will never be weak, we will never surrender and we will never kow tow to another groups' will or idea of what a Jew is supposed to be/do. I refuse to return to the ghetto. I will not be Dhimmi-ed. I will not return to the ghetto or to ghetto Judaism. I refuse. Call me a racist, a radical, a fascist. The Black Panthers were called the same things in American when they fought and spoke and incited for their equality. I WILL NOT RETURN TO THE WAY THINGS WERE BEFORE.
If you blow up a bus with innocent Jewish children in it, I am going to send tanks and bulldozers to your village, and destroy your house/village. Its that simple. When they figure that simple fact out, and when they figure out that they can't bomb us into submission, and as Golda Meir once said (paraphrased): When they learn to love their children more than they hate us, maybe then there will be peace.

Basically, all I'm saying is that Jews and Arabs and Westerners all have equal amounts of blood on their hands. You can claim that Jews have tried to take the "moral high ground" but as long as Israel keeps retaliation bombs flying, they are just as responsible as anyone else for keeping this conflict going.

I understand your desire for things not to return to the way they were, but this is not progress - it's stagnation into a pattern of mindless violence. Until someone learns to hold their hands up and say "we forgive you: we need to work this out", we're all going straight to hell in a handcart.

Id rather go straight to hell in a hand cart before I bend over and let them f*** me and my people in the a$$. Lets just say this Bob: You, as a Briton, and an Englishman, will never really understand what life is like for us in the middle east, so the most you can really do is debate and condemn from an intellectual level, and that, while it may be better than nothing, is not exactly "progress" as intellecual debate, without really understanding or living the conflict, does absolutely nothing.

(Sorry if that sounded rude, I didn't mean it to be).

Also, if a mod will please delete my extra posts from when my internet was misbehaving, that'd be dandy.