Young Writers Society

This should be required reading for the beginning author. My current MC scored a 30 (borderline) which is about what I expected. Thanks a ton, Sam!

TL G-Wooster wrote:How many "litmus tests" do you have? You've probably them already, but if you can get a wide variety it might help. That's all I can think of. >.<

Oodles.
My paper on how the media affects girls' perception of beauty and perfection. If Mary Sues are about wish fulfillment, why do they wish for those certain things? So, not so much writing about them from a writing craft perspective as a sociology one. (*is a geek*)

gryfalcon wrote:This should be required reading for the beginning author.

Weirdly, actually, it could be bad ... I mean, it's bad characterization, which is a major pet peeve of mine, but at the same time, it gets messy ... you're taught that writing isn't about wish fulfillment, but then you stop writing what you actually want to read. (*totally has that problem*)

/derailing topic

^ that's a good point. Even if you're characters are a little cliche, if they're good characters, they still have merit.

This is an old post, but I had fun with it anyway XD

My character Margaret scored a 9 on the litmus test - the anti-Sue! Yay! And this is what I got for the second one:

Margaret is only a little like you. She may be popular, or she may not, but no matter what she's impossible to ignore; she stands out... just the way you always wanted to. There's never been anything special about her that she could see; boy, is she in for a surprise. She's come in for her share of hurt, but gotten off with minor damage. And she's gotten no slack from you.

In general, you care deeply about Margaret, but you're smart enough to let her stand on her own, without burdening her with your personal fantasies or propping her up with idealization and over-dramatization. Margaret is a healthy character with a promising career ahead of her.

These are so entertaining XD

Litmus tests like that really aren't that helpful to me. So what if your character has all the things mentioned there? Does that mean that the character is just a self insert of the author, and thus, can never be written well?

The problem with Mary-Sues isn't the Mary Sue itself, but the world she lives in. Everything revolves around her, everyone either fawns or hates the Sue, the entire society the Sue lives in is pointless compared to her story. When everything goes drastically right or wrong to a character in the way most new writers do when they begin their first story, it's not Mary's fault, but the world she lives in. There can be a well written, constantly angsty character. Just having the traits you listed in that first post shouldn't instantly constitute a Sue, because if you're character 'has no flaws' it's because the earth the Sue walks on never gives her an event to show them.

Let's say I wrote a character named Alabaster Seafolous Rainbow Auracast Annette called "Silver" by her friends because she always wears the hottest platinum clothes her daddy buys her, making everyone at school jealous of how pretty she looks because of how it matches perfectly with her glittering blonde hair, streaked with bright red and black highlights. Does this make you say automatic Sue without even reading the story? If I put her in a ninja clan that gets betrayed, or make her learn several languages while soon developing super powers, does that instantly make her a Sue without even glancing at the writing itself?

The point is that cliches and outrageous things like above can be written well and realistically. As long as the world around her reacts realistically, by the guidelines in the story, Silver can't be marked as a Mary-Sue so quickly just by how she looks and acts.

Let's say I wrote a character named Alabaster Seafolous Rainbow Auracast Annette called "Silver" by her friends because she always wears the hottest platinum clothes her daddy buys her, making everyone at school jealous of how pretty she looks because of how it matches perfectly with her glittering blonde hair, streaked with bright red and black highlights. Does this make you say automatic Sue without even reading the story? If I put her in a ninja clan that gets betrayed, or make her learn several languages while soon developing super powers, does that instantly make her a Sue without even glancing at the writing itself?

The problem is that writers who create these kinds of characters are often the ones who don't know what they're doing. So, just as a habit, I'd have to say--yes, I'd probably count him/her as a Sue at first glance.

A big part of Sue-dom is taking oneself seriously. If you're doing something for giggles, then it's funny. But if your septalingual ninja assassin is to be taken as-is, then it's terribly difficult to avoid making a cardboard character sprinkled with a bunch of glitter.