jest kidding.

I'm the common class clown, or so they say.
Turn that frown upside-down, send your worries away.
I've got skits, I've got jokes, and I've got impressions
…when my wit's at its end and I'm cloaking my depression.

If you need your mind off of things, I'll keep you talking.
If you're happy and you know it, you'll just keep walking.
If you're sad, or feel bad, then I'm your guy,
but once you're done with me, you will leave in the blink of an eye.

Trying to be serious, mature, I won't get far,
'cause I make Dora the Explorer look rated R.
The truth is I don't have any redeeming qualities,
so I get it why I'm not on your list of priorities.

And when I think you're giving me a sliver of attention,
my eyes twinkle like little stars.
And if I feel accepted, supported and welcome,
you honk my nose, reminding me I'm just a clown.

But what if I told you that I'm coulrophobic?
What if in this costume I feel claustrophobic?
If I sit on the wall, will you hear me out,
or will you wait for the fall, then laugh out loud?

Comments

Points: 5533
Reviews: 696

Donate

Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:09 pm

View Likes

Audy wrote a review...

Candy!

I'm going to get technical to see if that helps any with improvements, but feel free to chat this one up if there was a particular spot I overlooked!

Right away your first two lines, the phrases before the commas each have 6 syllables: "I'm...clown" has 6 syllables and "Turn..frown..down" six syllables, and each of these phrases have the same emphasis placed on the same beat. Note the emphasis on common, clown; the emphasis on frown and down, we can clap (or stomp) to it at regular intervals. So, this regularity in beat mixed together with the speaker's chill/confident "this is who I am" attitude DO evoke and give off a rap feel as many raps are similarly constructed, even if that was not your intention, I felt it a bit too so just wanted to note why and where it was coming from.

The rest of the lines following this entry lose the regularity of structure and much of the tone/quality that was expressed in this beginning. They actually seem less "constructed" and more free-flowing, and they gain a sincerity in voice, I think because it begins to open up more to the emotions and gets more personal, like the below lines and how directly/forwardly spoken it begins:

"If you need your mind of things...
"If your happy and you know it...
"If you're sad and feel bad...

I think on its own, each of these stylistic choices can be powerful, but the mix and match doesn't flow or transition well and that can have a jarring effect. I think the inclusion of the nursery rhymes are kind of neat and unique and the statement about maturity is an interesting theme to ponder over, but it was difficult in my first reading to consolidate a rap entry beat with nursury rhyme with what I personally consider the heart of the piece which were these bits:

"When my wits at its ends and I'm cloaking my depression"

"But once your done with me you will leave"

"I get why im not on your list of priorities"

"Will you hear me out / or will you wait for the fall and then laugh out loud?"

So, if structure in a poem is a roadmap, then the structure of this piece is actually pulling me in so many different directions, it took work and efforts on my parts to appreciate this underlying lines, perhaps that is an intentional effect, but more jarring to me was less the structure and more the differences in tone. The tone difference made it seem a bit like multiple personalities. We begin with confidence, we have a scornful/angry voice we have witty/jokester playful voice and we have nursery lullabies but they are SO different! Maybe a separation of stanzas and spaces can help transition in these different tones and styles?

Lastly, the Dora the explorerer, I interpreted way off from intentions, I assumed it went to a darker/creepier place, like how people create rated R material in pokemon or my little pony? XD when I read what was intended I was like, ooooo! My mind just goes in dark zones, lol! I agree with Holy's assessment on "I make rated R seem like Dora. The Explorer" is a lot clearer.

Also, agree with Lightsong in totally digging the overall themes of depression and the emotions in the lines above that effected me the most make the piece relatable as well.

Hopes this helps,

~ as always, Audy
Ps. Phone review. Apologies ahead of time for any shorthand quotes, misquotes/shorthanded some spellings!

Persistence says...

Hey! Thanks for reviewing!

I could tell it's phone review xD

And wow. You surprised me there with the R-rated interpretation xD

So, from what I understand, the overlapping syllable sounds make it sound like a rap. I didn't even consider that it might be taken that way when I was writing it. What I wanted to do was make it sound a bit more cheerful at the beginning, hence the rhymes and such. But now I think I should have just done blank verse. There's no way that will get mistaken for a rap. Maybe I'll do that for another poem, though.

As far as structure goes, I was considering making all the lines have the same number of syllables stressed in the same way, but people don't seem to be into that kind of thing. So, I wrote something in between free verse and a completely structured poem. Do you think it's too weird? I've written some poems that are more on the structured end, and they've turned out pretty good. Though, it seems that both structured meter and free verse get their fair share of critique, so I guess it's up to personal preference.

Could you please elaborate on how the Dora the Explorer thing isn't clear enough? I keep rereading the lines and I keep seeing what I was trying to convey.

Also, could you please explain more about the difference in tone? And do you think it could work just as good as your suggestion if instead of separating the stanzas further, they were all merged into one, or perhaps two wholes?

I'd like to thank you again for your review. It really gave me helped me look at it from another angle.

Audy says...

Sure!

On Dora:
the phrase "I make ____ look ____"
only tells us comparisons to what is stated,
and implies the comparison
but implications are open to interpretation. So if I were to say I make cats look dangerous. That tells me that the speaker does not view cats as dangerous, and that somehow the speaker as a quality is SO dangerous to make what is seemingly not dangerous appear dangerous. But it doesn't tell us HOW the speaker is dangerous (does the speaker have claws and teeth, knives, dangerous daily habits, does the speaker fight cats, all of this is open to interpretation). I make dora the explorerer look rated r, we know its not rated R but [something] the speaker does in relation to dora the explorer makes "rated r" the quality that is expressed, but rated r does not mean mature/imature, actually rated r on its own has a lot of meanings which is how my interpretation came about. Actually I just thought of this: if you said: I make Dora the explorer look mature definitely gets your point across well, just that rated r to me does not necessarily stand in for mature. I can understand your interpretation too because the line is a couplet and couplets generally hold a complete idea so the line before it is doing the brunt work of linking rated r to mature, but the [because] line directs my brain to understand the second line before redirecting me to the first, does that make sense?

On rap

Not just syllables/beats, but the syllables, the beats, the attitude in tone and the colloquialism/casual/conversational words all contribute together as a "style" package. Note the difference:

I am a star rapper
Not a lame lip lapper

And

To meet, to love, to part
Sad tales of many hearts.

Both are 6 syllables, regular beats, and end rhymed but the tone and diction stylizes the two. Compare "to part" with "a star", We don't really use "to part" in spoken speech, only in written speech is it a common verb. Wheres, the word "star" as an object is neutral, the more colloquial "I'm going to make you a star" is used.

So Common class clown, dora, rated R, jokes, skits these words together evoke more the spoken spirit, kinds of words we use in speech so give a more colloquial tone.

Other lines like: "This is what people say" / and "...worries away" also strike me as spoken/rap in the way that it doesn't add much meaning to the content itself and are more spoken techniques. In your previous line, the speaker is telling us about himself so "this is what people say" is a long way of saying "people say I'm a class clown" and ending the line like that. In written word, precision, saying it once, saying it right is important to the style. In speech, its the opposite, repetition and making sure the meaning is HEARD and therefore repeated is important, so those lines do more of the second thing for me, then the first thing. "Send your worries away" is just another way of saying you turn smiles upside down, so they're repeated sentiments.

Both styles are awesome and can both be cheerful, they're just different styles, so I just wanted to point that out! I definitely get the cheerful vibe in those lines until we get to the depression line, which of course makes the rest of the piece more serious, but thats ok!

On structure

Structure of a piece can be literally anything your mind can think of, and then once you have that idea, it's executing it that gives us the trouble. Like for example, you stated you want a cheerful, playful kind of thing for the beginning, you can have structures that AID in the communication of cheerfulness and structures that detract from it.

I think shortening and breaking your lines can help give the beginning more levity and cheerfulness if levity and cheerfulness is the ultimate goal happiness for what you want to convey so like:

I'm the common clown
Turning around frowns

Helps bring in levity, note I even ommitted "down" because the word is a downer and we want more up, more hip, more happy

careful word choices add up. Those ooow sounds are downers too, you can replace with higher pitch sounds for even MORE levity:

I'm a silly comedian
also three-fourths canadian.

These are just examples, i wanted to keep your emotional meanings, aim for cheerful but just change the pitch in sounds, of course, I'm doing just to express how sounds matter in structure and in evoking tone, but you can play around with sounds is my point!

I don't think your structure is weird, just that structure needs to be purposeful. Structures with the same syllables and beat is very constucted and just like when I look at a satue that is intricately carved and regular and symmetrical with neat lines and geometry and attention to detail, regularly constructed works give off the same effect. I noted the nursery rhyme experiment as really interesting to me! Especially when paired with the subject of maturity. I never thought of nursery rhymes as immature, I always think of theme as soothing and a part of early childhood, so the use of it in a piece about depression intrigued me! I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

on tone

To be cont'd..

Persistence says...

Okay. I definitely see what you mean.

Though, if you make cats look dangerous, and cats aren't dangerous to begin with, doesn't that mean that you're so safe to be around, that even cats seem dangerous compared to you? That's how I understand the whole expression, and I don't seem to see how you would be dangerous in that very situation.

Also, after googling "r rating", turns out the "r" stands for "restricted for people under the age of 17". So, that's where the correlation with maturity stems from. Though, I shouldn't have used this because younger people aren't necessarily less mature, and I know people who fall into this category and are indeed mature. And I made the same mistake using the nursery rhymes, which are associated with young children, and again, age. I don't think age has anything to do with how mature a person is, so now that I've thought about it, this whole poem is a bust.

Anyway, I still don't know about the rap thing. The example you gave can also be sung like a rap. And that got me thinking: pretty much anything can be sung like a rap song. But also, why would colloquial vocabulary be frowned upon? The narrator is a character and not all characters will have an elevated speaking style. Plus it would sound super fake if this narrator talked like that. And there can be rap songs that use more sophisticated and more formal words.

Regarding the structure, I have to experiment a bit more to be able to use it better, but I don't think structure necessarily always contributes to the actual meaning of a poem. I guess this comes from my (extremely strong) view that we shouldn't limit ourselves in art. So, for me the same structure can be used with different emotions or themes or motifs. And both formal and colloquial words can be used for rap and for poetry. So, that's basically what I mean when I say that I don't understand why a particular thing is deemed acceptable and another isn't.

That being said, I'll definitely get back to the drawing board and pay a lot more attention to pretty much everything lol. What I'll try next is waiting a while after finishing a poem, then reading it with fresh eyes after about a day passes, and editing it accordingly. I'm hoping that will significantly boost the quality of a poem. From experience, putting time into something makes it better more often than not.

Audy says...

Oh yes! You're right about the dangerous/expression, I think it would be you're so *safe*, you make cats look dangerous, lol! So you make dora seem mature would imply you're immature. Thanks for catching that.

I like those explanations on your thoughts behind age, maturity, R rated, etc. I appreciate the concept a lot better. I actually like looking at new ways of seeing things. I don't think the poem is a bust though, I think that the idea of age and maturity/immaturity just needs to be emphasized so that we can understand the nursery and R rated line in those terms, you just need a way of finding how to communicate those ideas and evoke the concept of maturity and lack thereof. I think age can be used, naturally and eventually grow more mature as we age, maybe showing that progression can help? Like beginning the poem in early childhood and eventually progrrssing down the line from child to adolescent to adult and thereby increasing the maturity? Iunno, do you think that will help? Still keeping your voice, the emotional conflict and the gems in your lines of course, but structuring it that way emphasizes the character's growth in maturity, or perhaps the opposite, maybe you want to show a regression, not a progression, either way it can work.

I actually agree with keeping the colloquialism, and I love rap, lol! I might not have made clear I wanted to point out how parts of the poem came across to me and why they come across that way. I assumed in my review based on what you commented on previously that you didn't want to do rap, which is why I made the suggestions. I'm operating more on the vein of, lemme help you get across what's in your head better on the page. So if you want it, I'm all for it, I'm here to help in that sense. So I never said any of it was bad, nor made the implication that rap is never sophisticated. So I agree with you!

I'm curious to see what you see as "structure" to me, structure is a very broad term almost used interchangebly with form, to me it just means how a work is composed, how it is on the page, how the words are arranged, perhaps you see structure like that too. Then, wouldn't you agree that even if someone just randomly wrote:

Djdhdjfjfvvkjabcj

And called it a poem, that the piece still has a structure. Even if the structure is random or unintentional. Structure asks "how" so it is always contributing to meaning, if we think of meaning as the what, where, when, how, etc etc.

I agree that you should never limit yourself in art and there is a lot of flexibility in structure, like, we write sonnets about love but also sonnets about pain about silliness, there are millions of sonnets, I'm not saying your poem should follow one boxset of rules or that poetry can't use colloquialisms, etc.etc. I agree with you.

Art does communicate though. And what was in your head when you wrote this piece, that is what I want in my head when I read this piece c: when I review, I try to give you what is in my head when I read and I want it to match closely with that is in your head. Sometimes, I'm late to the party and of you make a comment about how you intend a certain meaning, I'll taylor to see if that meaning is what I got, and if not, I'll make suggestions. Nowhere in this process am I dubbing something "good/bad".

What I'm doing is saying: this is what I got, it doesn't seem to be what you intend, let's see if i can help make things clearer for future readers to then be able to get what you intend.

Now, in many cases people say the author's intentions don't matter and as an author myself, I don't mind when readers pick up on things I never even thought of when writing. But as writers, we can always improve our craft and our art and come closer each time to creating more and more enjoyable works. C: This is a Good discussion! I love learning a lot too on how we all write and read and view poetries <3

Persistence says...

That's a good idea, about a gradual progression/regression when it comes to maturity. Although, that may require the poem to lengthened by a considerable margin.

By structure I mean the way words are arranged, as well as what words are used (because of their length and syllabic count). And sorry, I meant to say that it doesn't necessarily add any special meaning, whilst I said that it didn't add any meaning at all. I misexpressed myself; sorry about that.

You're right about the intention stuff. It's important to be able to convey information well. Though, I'm also open to readers having alternate interpretations, as long as they make general sense, of course. A lot of people will experience art differently.

(sorry if I didn't reply about everything. I blame sleepiness lol)

Points: 0
Reviews: 494

Donate

Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:18 pm

View Likes

Holysocks wrote a review...

Hey there! I love reviewing lyrics, and I'm not sure why.

You've got an interested narrator in this. He/she/they obviously don't think too highly of themselves... or at least that's what it seemed like to me because of the sort of feeling of angst throughout. Still there seems to be a bit of a unique voice that's happening in this- especially the first bit. Also, am I correct in assuming this is supposed to be a rap? I think it would work pretty good as a rap.

First off, I'm going to sort of disagree with Lightsong (aren't I a horrible person?); I wasn't a huge fan of the rhyming. And I'm going to say that's mostly because you started out having fairly strong rhymes, and then dropped them on the second to last line only to try picking them up again... but you didn't manage to. With rhyming, I'm going to quote Yoda here: "Do or do not; there is no try." Rhyming (in lyrics/poems) only really work when you stick the rhyming out throughout the work, if you ask me, and you didn't do that. I love poems/lyrics that have really good, thoughtful rhyming schemes- but when you're just rhyming for the sake of rhyming, it doesn't really do a lot for me.

Which brings us nicely to the next point about rhyming. You started out in one topic, and then it seemed to morph into a completely different topic- the title is "Jest Kidding" but I feel like that wasn't the general theme of the song at all- you go onto talk about depression and people leaving this character and although I understand that that could be exactly what you were going for- having a light title/beginning and then throwing a sort of twist in there... it still feels like the rhyming brought you away from what you were originally trying to say. And that's something I'm never fond of with rhyming works: people try to rhyme them, and then you end up with lines that make hardly any sense because the writer wanted the rhyme more than the communication/story. The first couple stanzas I thought were pretty good, but the last few I think did this a bit.

I've got skits, I've got jokes, andI've got impressions

The amount of "I've got's" really made this line a tongue twister.

I think it would flow a lot better if you said instead: I've got skits, jokes, and impressions. Sometimes less really is more- especially in poetry/lyrics. That's something I need to be more conscious of as well!

Trying to be serious, mature, I won't get far,
'cause I make Dora the Explorer look rated R.

To me this sounds like a contradiction. To me, making Dora the Explorer look rated R would mean you make things more serious than light hearted and funny. Though I can also see it that Dora the Explorer being rated R is ridiculous, so that could work if that's what you meant... however I think it would work better if you used a less mature example. Like if you reversed it saying that you made rated R look like Dora the Explorer.

In any case, this was an interesting read! Are you planning on putting it to music/singing it? I would be interested in hearing it for sure if you did! I thought it was a pretty fun but at the same time thought provoking piece in the sense that you had the sort of flip of "this is supposed to be funny but also there's another level to it".

Keep it up! ^_^

-Socks

Persistence says...

Hey Holysocks. Thanks for reviewing.

First of all, this is not a rap. I didn't mean "lyrical" as in pertaining to lyrics of a song. I meant the poetic "lyrical", which I am sure you're familiar with, that pertains to emotions and expression of those emotions.

Now that you know this, maybe you'll look at the rhymes from a different angle, because I absolutely never rhyme for the sake of rhyming (unless it's for comedic effect, of course). In the second-to-last stanza, I don't have rhymes because that adds a little variety into the mix. If it's your personal opinion that poems should be one way or the other, then that's okay. But I will often make at least one stanza that stands out from the rest, thus straying away from monotony. I could have found rhymes for it, but I wanted it to be the way it is.

About the gots. I used them to space out the words "skits", "jokes" and "impressions", so that the sounding of their syllables matches that of the words below them: "wits", "cloak", "depression". The way that I have it, they don't match very well, but it would have been even worse if I had made it the way you described. Though, I'm open to other suggestions, but I just can't see how to make it work the way I want it to.

I make Dora the Explorer look rated R. The point is that the narrator is so immature, that in comparison to him, Dora the Explorer looks like something for adults. Lightsong was on point here. The only reason making Dora the Explorer look rated R could make me look more mature is if I actually worked on Dora the Explorer and in making it more mature I made myself more mature. I guess? At any rate, I would ask that you revise your statement, because I just revised the lines and I think they convey the meaning I want them to.

Anyway, this is not a song. This is a poem, which is probably why you looked at it the way you did. Also, I doubt you absolutely hated it, but because you didn't say that you liked anything, it's easy to draw that conclusion. As someone experienced in poetry, I respectfully disagree with some of the points you made, though some of them stem from personal view and personal style on your part. But how would a writer know what to stick with, if all the criticism you give them only touches on what you perceive to be the faults of a work?

For example, I don't see anyone commenting on whether or not they liked the fact that in each stanza I referred to things that are commonly associated with little children. In the third stanza it's Dora the Explorer, but in the other stanzas are references to nursery rhymes, specifically "If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands", "Twinkle, twinkle, little star", and "Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall", as well as the famous "turn that frown upside-down" in the first stanza.

Anyway, thanks for reviewing. I'll take another look at everything you said, and hopefully I can improve the poem. Have a nice day

Holysocks says...

Hey CandyWizard! I'm sorry my review didn't help you out. I've actually never heard of "lyrical" referring to anything but song lyrics, and the beat of your poem gave me the impression it was a rap! XD Sorry about that. Though I'm honestly curious; what's the difference between a regular poem and a lyrical poem- if it's not song lyrics?

Anyway, once again I'm sorry I wasn't of much help! Hopefully next time I review your work, it will be of more use!

Persistence says...

Well, basically poems can be classified as lyrical and epic. Lyrical ones deal with emotions and expressing said emotions, while epic poems are narrative poems that deal with events, plots and characters. For example, if you write a poem about love and flowers and chocolate, it's gonna be a lyrical poem. If you write about a person who bought chocolate and flowers and brought them to their beloved, then got rejected and ate the flowers and gave the chocolate away to a homeless person, there is actual plot and story there, so it would be classified as epic.

I'm sorry if I came across as blunt. I just like to be honest with people, and your review was fine. I'm very grateful that you took the time to write it, or just that you read my poem at all. I really appreciate it.

Holysocks says...

Oh, interesting!

And I appreciate honesty! ^_^ You actually made me realize I need to break some bad habits that I've developed over time! So no need to apologize at all! c:

Points: 25
Reviews: 472

Donate

Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:33 pm

View Likes

Lightsong wrote a review...

Hey, Candy. I'm here to review.

The fact that this poem is a rhyme one is the biggest reason why I dig this. I love rhyme poems and find them easier to understand and more entertaining than the overrated free-verse *coughcough* that are scattering around the Green Room. So yeah, this is refreshing to read.

The title pulls me in, but I feel a bit betrayed. You see, because of the lack of capital letters, plus the stylistic use of inserting a period at the end of it, I expect the poem to reflect the same style. I expect it to be a rhyme one that doesn't abide rules of punctuation and capitalization, but I'm taken aback by the necessity of them in the poem. I suggest making the title 'Jest Kidding so that the reader wouldn't get the same confusion I have, although it can just be me. Maybe it's just me. I dunno. >.<

I've got skits, I've got jokes, and I've got impressions,
…when my wit's at its end and I'm cloaking my depression.

It takes me a second read to understand these lines, but once I did, I love it. I just love how you make the persona multi-layered in the sense that to hide their depression, they humour people. I like that because I think it's pretty realistic and people like them can be found in real life. My small nitpick is the ellipses, because you have a comma before it, and have to choose one. The comma is unneeded, and if you want to build the tension, I suggest the ellipses placed after 'impressions'.

If you're sad, or feel bad, then I'm your guy,
but once you're done with me, you will leave in the blink of an eye.

So sad. And accusatory at the same time. I'm not that kind of people! I'll appreciate the one who cheers me up and won't 'leave in the blink of an eye'. D: I think paraphrasing is due here to change the tone, because the content is poignant already, just that the delivery is a bit off.

And if I feel accepted, supported and welcome,
you honk my nose, reminding me I'm just a clown.

These lines don't sound rhymed to me, but I'll let them pass, considering I'm into this poem already. Nonetheless, deep meaning here, good job!

If I sit on the wall, will you hear me out,
or will you wait for the fall, then laugh out loud?

The chills! Just when I thought it can't be any more heartfelt, these lines, this ending throws my expectation away. I'm head over heel with these. This can be interpreted as literal situation, or a metaphor for the mental breakdown or something, but the effect for either is equally heavy (for lack of a better word). I also have to note the part about Dora the Explorer is humorous.

And that is all! Keep up the good job! Us poets who like writing rhyme poems should show the world why they are necessary and have an important place in the world of poetry! Kudos to you!

Persistence says...

Hey! Thank you so much for reviewing!

That punctuation thing was a mistake and I'll delete that comma asap. Though, about the title, it just how I've been naming all my poems lately, so I guess it kinda signifies that it's one of my latest poems, I guess? Sorry that it was confusing or that gave you expectations that it couldn't meet.

I'll take a look into all of the things that you've said, and I'll try to improve it to the best of my ability. Again, thank you so much. Your review is really helpful. And thanks for all the wonderful things you've said! I really like rhymes too ^^

Have an awesome day!

Points: 1335
Reviews: 277

Donate

Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:48 pm

View Likes

Charm says...

yes

just yes

Points: 708
Reviews: 75

Donate

Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:23 pm

View Likes

ChieTheWriter says...

Oh this is awesome...

Keep it up, CandyWizard

Persistence says...

Thank you! c:

Points: 93
Reviews: 216

Donate

Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:57 am

View Likes

DivergentDemigod says...

I ABSOLUTElY LOVE THIS!!!!

There isn't much i can say about this, because seriously i wouldn't want you to change anything.
But hey I just had to comment on this :-P

have a great day
~DD

p.s.- I like the dora refference xD

Persistence says...

Thank you!! Have a great day yourself ^^

Points: 43
Reviews: 14

Donate

Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:12 am

View Likes

Kayley01 wrote a review...

Wow. That just made me think like I was at some child's birthday party and the clown had a break down... but wow that was amazing for showing your feelings.
@Kayley01 here for review. It's been a long time since I reviewed so I might be a little bit rusty... Anyway your poem made me have a picture in my head of what this "so - called clown" felt.
I don't really have a by criticism for you. I didn't really like the lay out of the poem and there were a few places that the words were to long so it made the poem flow a bit weird which made it hard to read and understand but other than that I liked your poem very much. Keep up the good work.

Persistence says...

Thanks for reviewing!

Kayley01 says...

No problem @Candy wizard!

Young Writers Society

jest kidding.

Comments

Sponsors

About / Info

Forums & RPG

Literary

Resources