Young Writers Society

This is one of the challenges I'm looking at going forward:

Australian states back national plan to ban children younger than 16 from social media

It's entirely possible that a final version of such legislation would not include YWS, but there's similar efforts underway in the US that would definitely impact YWS. There might very soon come a day where you cannot join a site like ours if you are not at least 16 years old. Thus, a name change is just as much about surviving as it is about reflecting the current community.

Gah... I am not sure. You've branded YWS so much in my brain that it seems hard to think of it as anything else. I've known it for almost twenty years as YWS, so even the thought it being something else seems odd, haha. And yeah, I know that WFP is a thing and Writer Feed is definitely one of the better choices, but still, YWS is so engrained in my brain that I would have a hard time with the name choice nonetheless.

On the other hand, I am one of the original young writers who joined (joined when I was still only 16) and now am 36, which is definitely not young but middle-aged. My children are closer to the general demographic than I am. So I like the remarketing for myself personally because it makes me seem less like a creepy person on a website geared for younger writers, haha. Also, it kind of makes sense because most of our "young" writers are in their twenties. So yeah, I would probably feel more comfortable reviewing and participating on a website aimed for older writers instead of feeling like I intimidate people with my age. That would be wonderful!

However, I'm... not sure what I think about as a parent though? My oldest is 10 and she has spoken about joining YWS when she turns 13, and just. Already I'm hesitating because most of the members on YWS are in their twenties, so I'm not really sure about it, but at least I know it's geared for young writers and the community is really kind and supportive. However, if the member base suddenly expanded to adults, even with a section for young writers, I would probably hesitate even more. With the rebranding, there are going to be new members that will be attracted into a more adult space and our community dynamic will shift some. Which is good in some ways because having a large, active member base is wonderful for a website. However, you might lose the younger base. (Though, you might lose the younger base anyway due to legislation which is prompted by legislators driven by hesitant parents that think like me anyway, so I dunno... XP)

I do like the idea of a private section for young writers though... that would be the thing that would probably make me more lenient about my kids.

...I realize that this rant isn't helpful and probably very confusing, but. Those are my word vomit thoughts, haha. In any case, whatever gets decided, I would be happy to hang out, haha. ^^ I like this website.

I very much echo Snoink's thoughts -

I like the remarketing for myself personally because it makes me seem less like a creepy person on a website geared for younger writers, haha. Also, it kind of makes sense because most of our "young" writers are in their twenties. So yeah, I would probably feel more comfortable reviewing and participating on a website aimed for older writers instead of feeling like I intimidate people with my age. That would be wonderful!

I've been personally thinking to myself for a while here ... when am I supposed to log-off and simply become like a supportive grandparent in the audience stands for YWS? I'm 28 currently, I don't want younger folks or peers to think I'm doing something suspect or weird by maintaining an active presence on a site geared for young people when I feel less like a young person myself. And without a name change, I think I would have a hard time I think continuing to be a moderator when I'm like 30+ - as it is, if I tell people in real life about YWS I tend to use words like "Writer society, online writer club, writing community" and don't really talk very much about the "young" part.

It is really too bad those options Carlito shared aren't an option - this is way out there - but we could do like a kickstarter campaign or something similar to try to raise money to snag one of those "writerssociety" / "thewriterssociety" / "onlinewritersclub" / "thenewwriterssociety" or something that maybe plays off our current name a little more? There seems to be a lot of folks voicing uncertainty with the "Writer Feed" idea, not the name change. I wonder if it's because "writerfeed" doesn't quite truly describe what we are. YWS isn't just special because we have a people tab where people can see a newsfeed of thoughts; the newsfeed is awesome, but it's the shared conversations and people that are the focus - it's a rare-forum-type community, with a dedicated moderator base, that is uniquely supportive of creative efforts of primarily new or unestablished writers of poetry, prose, and RPs - who join to seek and share within a mutually beneficial community model. The review model too is special - to participate on YWS, you have to review. Our reviews are unique on the internet in that they are relational - we talk to people, rather than simply talk "about" works. The reviews are generally supportive and forward thinking and in-depth (compared to other writing spots I've found on the internet that are often high in critique, low in personal connection, and low in substance or optimism). Here we form friendships through a common pursuit and hobby of writing. Words like community, society, club, all seem to describe our main endeavors.

^ Now all of those things will hopefully still be true whatever name the site gets, just wanted to share some thoughts on why maybe "Writer Feed" wasn't landing (at least with me). Maybe it'll be something we grow into and it'll start to fit just through seeing it a lot! May a tag-line could help us get our minds around it; "Writers Feed: An Online Writing Community" - just some thoughts Nate!

I also like the idea of a section of the site geared towards young people; there are few places on the internet that offer a community for young people that's not toxic / overly-mature / overly-sexual / overly-violent / or just predatory in general - and I would like to see YWS continue to generally steer away from mature works or especially sexual works / RPs. There's enough places on the internet for that, and it's one of the things I really really like about this place that when I open the lit center it's not primarily smut or stuff that's not safe for work or for children. I don't think I could ethically continue to be a moderator if we started primarily have that sort of thing on the site.

I think it's very forward thinking to consider the international social media laws that may restrict places like YWS in the future and make sure we are ready to change and grow as needed. No amount of nostalgia is worth YWS fading away because we were afraid to make necessary changes for safety or legality! Look forward to hearing where you land on all this Nate, and support your discernment in wherever it goes - you had the vision that put this wonderful community together after all - I will support whatever direction you go! We have an amazing community here and a name change isn't going to change that.

Hi, I know my depth of knowledge isn't that great and this probably won't be that helpful but I thought I'd drop by and present my opinion on this.

I'm not very fond if the idea of a name change and overhauling the structure of the site to separate younger and older users. I feel like it puts an unnecessary emphasis on the users age. Like, I understand all the reasons that there are behind such a change, legally and everything I do intellectually see why it might be a good idea but I still don't feel very comfortable with it. What I mean to say is since it's an online platform I usually don't notice someone's age when I'm talking to then or reading their work, so I often don't realise how much younger or older they are even if their age is mentioned in their profile.

That brings me to another point, many users don't specify their age, so how would the accessibility be? Would they be able to access that parts restricted to under 18 users or not? Because if they won't have access it might work against those users who keep their ages unknown for privacy purposes.

Another thing I'm afraid of is that the vibe or environment of the site might change. Right now it's this amazing, welcoming, safe atmosphere that the site has and the content posted is never really R-rated. I feel like that's mostly because the site is currently geared towards 'younger' writers. Another point, which has been raised by others in previous posts, is the possibility of a divide or hostility between users on the basis of age.

Such a change might also discourage or intimidate younger users because I feel like it puts them in too much of a spotlight, if that makes sense? But I do understand the need to make older users feel more welcome so I would like introduce the idea that maybe instead of changing the structure of the site maybe we can make like clubs instead. One for older users and one for younger ones. Everybody would be automatically added to these groups, it's not a choice and they can't subscribe to them. And users can interact with others of their age on these clubs.

I'm not sure if this viable but I prefer this idea over changing the structure of the site to reserve certain spots for certain users.

I feel like another reason I feel a little strongly against the change is that I'm going to be 17 very soon and it's very daunting that I might be very soon be old enough that I'm considered 'old' or you know an adult even though I don't feel like that all XD

Either way this is my opinion on it, sorry if it's not very coherent or understandable.

I agree with a lot of @khushi17bansal's thoughts. I do wonder how if the name change occured and the divide occurred between older and younger writers we'd still be able to keep the PG atmosphere of YWS. I can easily see the older writers posting whatever they want on their walls because they feel separated from younger writers and don't mess with them and their section of YWS so they forget that they exist.

I feel like if the divide were to occur (which I am still in favor of, I'd just like to discuss this issue a little further) the rules would have to be more strongly emphasized and the fact that younger writers have access to everything be explained as the reason for keeping the rules the way they are.

What I really do not want to turn this into is an environment where toxic and snobby teenagers lurk because they feel distanced from the younger writers and thus feel less accountability about what they post here if that makes sense.

As a member of the yws since I was just 13, I’ve seen firsthand how impactful this community can be. It has not only helped me through grieving and personal challenges but has also been a vital part of my journey in learning to write. I’ve cherished every moment spent sharing my poetry and getting advice from the more experienced writers here, who have guided me in ways I can’t fully express. I truly don’t want to take that experience away from anyone else, and I feel a strong need to protect the warm, supportive atmosphere that YWS has cultivated.

16-year-old on the cusp of turning 17, I want to share my thoughts on the proposed changes to our beloved community, including the idea of renaming it to WriterFeed. While I completely understand that changes are sometimes necessary, I do have some reservations, especially regarding the potential division between younger and older writers.

Writing is something that connects us all, regardless of age. Many of us in our late teens find ourselves at a unique crossroads where we are transitioning from being "young writers" to young adults. This age group, roughly 15 and up, is crucial for us to explore our voices and develop our styles. I believe it’s essential to foster an inclusive environment that encourages collaboration and mentorship among all writers, no matter their age.

The current vibe of YWS is incredibly welcoming and supportive, which has allowed me to thrive as a writer. The feedback I’ve received on my poems from older members has been invaluable, and I worry that a strict separation could diminish that sense of community and guidance. We have so much to learn from each other, and I’d hate to see that lost.

I completely understand the safety protocols that are being considered, and I agree that creating a comfortable space for younger writers is important. However, I think we can achieve this without completely dividing our community. One idea could be to create designated areas or "clubs" within the site where younger writers can feel safe sharing their work while still connecting with the broader community. This way, we can maintain the invaluable mentorship that many of us treasure while ensuring that younger members have a space where they can connect with peers.

the idea of changing the name to WriterFeed feels a bit disconnected and lacks the warmth that "Young Writers Society" embodies. I recognize the need for a name that reflects our evolving community, but I would love to see something that emphasizes inclusivity for young adults rather than strictly separating age groups. A name like "The Writers Society" or something that includes "young adults" could better represent our diverse membership and the collaborative spirit we all value.

I wholeheartedly support the idea of evolving our community to reflect the changing demographics, but I urge us to do so in a way that fosters connection rather than division. Let’s celebrate our shared passion for writing and continue to learn from one another, no matter our age. I’m excited to hear your thoughts and hope we can find a solution that works for everyone involved!

I think change is inevitable and needed. I welcome it. If we want YWS to survive the changing seasons, a name change could benefit us. I think it's possible to preserve aspects of our culture by having moderators who continue to cast a clear vision, enforce the same standards, and have those of us present here be the culture we want there to be.

Besides, how would that be any different from what we do now? Will rules, expectations, and standards still apply site-wide across the main site and the sub-site of YWS? If people come in breaking site policy, wouldn't we go about it the same way we would now? Or will the policies change along with the name? Will the policies only apply to the YWS sub-site, and be modified for the main site? Those are the questions I have in light of some people's expressed concerns.

If people like the supportive culture and the lack of "R" level content, why not keep the same rating system we have today? Do we want to welcome types of adult content onto the site if we, essentially, remove the "age cap" (of which we've never officially had, but I think people feel). Personally, I like that this site doesn't welcome that kind of content because, as alliyah said, it's something unique about this site and there are plenty of other spaces on the internet for that. YWS/WriterFeed doesn't have to be that outlet.

It is completely possible and okay to have a site open to all ages that simply has more boundaries (or restrictions, if you see it that way).

I'm ambivalent about the name "writerfeed" over "theyoungwritersociety." Do I like "the writer's society?" Sure. But "WriterFeed" will do. It'll be the same site for the most part, won't it?

I know names and branding are bigger than we give them credit for, but WriterFeed is nice and simple and straight to the point. I also feel like it represents the culture of wfp's and collaborative writing/group writing that's been cultivated over the past few years. I've noticed this increase of it since the removal of the chat bar in, what, 2017? Now it's a normal part of site culture, and I love it.

As for concerns about division among the generations, I'm actually very for having a safe space for minors that adults can't get into. I think some separation there is actually very good and healthy and assuring for parents and minors alike. If minors are still free to interact on the adult side they get to self-moderate or moderate with the help of parents how much they are exposed to adults online who are strangers to them (though we should limit access to adult content if that becomes a thing).

Like, don't get me wrong: I grew up on an internet without any of these restrictions, and I remember being a teenager that would still lie about my age. Teens will still be teens, but there were still places online I knew I could go that would be safe, where I wouldn't run into anything weird and there were built-in boundaries to keep me safe. And it was such a relief, especially after running into things online that I wished I hadn't. There are less and less safe spaces for children and minors online these days, and it saddens and scares me. I'd like there to still be a space for them here without having to kick out the young adults, or not-so-young adults.

Maybe a good boundary to put in place could be that adult users can't PM junior ones unless they're approved moderators...? I'm not sure if that could get sticky in any way, I'm merely brainstorming. In my experience, pm's/dm's/links to offsite private conversations are usually where predators prowl and are the more vulnerable space/cause for concern.

It doesn't mean we still can't interact and learn from one another! I think reviewing can be something that stays open to all ages so that older writers can still speak to younger writers, which was a big part of how I grew on here when I first joined.

I guess that opens up a new question for me: the part of the site that's restricted just to minors - what will it include and not include? Will they have their own set of forums? Will everything be separate? If they post works, will it still go into the green room?

On the flip side of having youth-safe spaces, I'm also aware that labeling young users as "junior writers" or showing their age already can put a target on their back. I mean, when I was a kid, I was told never to tell my age online, so I'm not sure how we want to navigate that. It is something we have already, but I'm wondering if there would be a way to hide that information from users...? Maybe there already is and I'm just unaware, lol.



TLDR; The name change doesn't matter to me as much as the preservation of the culture which I think is possible with a strong leadership presence (which I think we have) and an active community that cares about walking it out. Policies don't have to change.

I'm for a youth-only space for the safety and protection of minors and think there can still be spaces on the main site for them to learn from older writers while still having boundaries to protect them.

EDIT: I think if we keep the same censorship/overall policies that will be key to what makes the crossover between sites/sub-sites work.

Heyo, just dropping in to leave my two cents.

1. I think it's hard to tell what kind of effect the name change will have on what new members we end up getting. I'm pretty sure even with the current site name, sometimes people join who aren't really a good fit for our site culture and they end up not being as active or leaving the site because they get pushback. I think there are ways to push the site culture towards being PG/ 'family friendly' as a whole that aren't dependent on the name itself (e.g. a tagline, how we talk about the site, maybe updating and then highlighting the About Us page so it spells out the site culture (and presumably broadens the focus from it being a site for 'mentoring young writers')).

As for the specific name, I think WriterFeed is fine. It has 'writer' in it, and I think plenty of people would type that into their search engines too. (Whereas people who are into posting edgier writing might actually look for something more specific than that, I would imagine.) Whether or not it's dry might depend on how you interpret 'feed' (like chicken feed could be a pretty good inside-joke reference, and thereby make it less dry).

2. Onto more serious safety stuff: I would think when it comes to safety and maintaining a more PG culture, both things would rely more on site-wide norm (and rule) enforcement, regardless of whether or not there is a sub-site for younger writers? For instance, if we create a sub-site that claims to be 'safer', it won't be safe if people are still clicking suspicious links, or if bullying is taking place within the sub-site etc. And on the Internet we can never know for sure someone's actual age, so there's a chance a predator could end up in the sub-site anyway, as cynical as that sounds.

3. I think the case for having the sub-site anyway would be if it makes people feel more comfortable as a community, and also could potentially make it harder for any unwanted interaction to happen. I think it could be better for minors who want the option of just talking to people their own age (though as mentioned I think it's important to be transparent with users that they need to be careful with any personal information on the Internet and also to watch for warning signs in interactions, as other users may not be who they say they are.)

4. I wonder if it would be so bad if older users couldn't view the sub-site? For instance, let's say a minor joins the site. They always have two options - they can post a work in WriterFeed where they can interact with 'the whole site' but still verbalise their boundaries without necessarily having to disclose their age (e.g. 'I prefer to keep it to lighter topics') OR they can post a work in YWS - of course, the mods and admins would know if a user is in 'YWS', but to the broader membership, their age can still be kept private. (And as for a lit journal, members of YWS can individually choose if they're okay with other people knowing that they're in YWS, I suppose? Or maybe have a different pseudonym for their published work? And 'the whole site' would still be able to read the YWS lit journal)

I feel like that would work for having the option of the subsite without labelling 'junior' writers (and thereby potentially putting them at risk as well). Would it 'split the community'? Maybe a little bit, but my thought is that visibly labelling a group of writers as 'junior' while the rest are not could introduce a similar effect even if the rest of the site had a read-only access to the sub-site.

This is just me spit-balling of course, I feel like there'd be other implications of this that I haven't thought of yet, so feel free to correct me on those!

tldr; I agree with a name change to WriterFeed. I think other aspects of the site design as well as continued norm enforcement would be more important (than the name) in safety + maintaining a more PG culture. I gave an idea for the sub-site in item no. 4 -- could be a good idea, maybe not.

Edit: I also am okay with the idea of a sub-site, but think it's a bit tricky because of the potential issues that sound's already brought up.

Chiming in a ditto. Echoing lim's thoughts because she said things better than I did! Having a lot of the same questions, and I'm just spitballing ideas too. Now that lim brings it up, I do wonder how much a sub-site would make a difference, especially if we don't change any policies, but if it helps us keep the younger generation in light of potential new legislation, that's a good reason for it.

I also favor the name change. Honestly the more I think about it, the more the name "WriterFeed" grows on me. We are writers that come to get nourished with inspiration and community and we feed others the same inspiration, community, and encouragement. It's also so much simpler to say.

Also, I feel like WriterFeed is a lot more inclusive. I felt that this community was not going to be my thing when I joined at 18 because I would be too old for it and possibly asked to leave because of it. WriterFeed markets to anyone of any age and I wouldn't have been so hesitant to join if it had had that name at the time that I was looking for a writer's platform.

But those thoughts aside, I feel like @soundofmind and @Liminality did a great job expressing similar concerns.

Lots of great discussion!

Honestly, the sub-site might be short-lived, or just not work out. With all the social media legislation across various countries right now, I think the most likely result is that those 15 and younger will eventually need parental permission to join sites like YWS (similar to how those 12 and younger need such permission now). The easiest thing to do then is to just close off membership to those 15 and younger because it's just too much paperwork otherwise. That does leave open the possibility of a sub-site for those 15-17, but I don't know if that's a large enough demographic.

Anyways, I think the PG nature of the site will definitely continue. There's ways to encourage that beyond the name, such as the types of events that are thrown, the design of the site itself, and how more mature content is treated. For example, mature work never gets featured on the front page, and it's actively discouraged across the site. There is also absolutely no way I'll allow this site to become even remotely like Archive of our Own or WattPad.

One item that would need to be done though before renaming the site is adopting the same birth date rules as bigger social media sites*. That means requiring it for new users, and only allowing you to change it once (the idea being that you may have mistakenly entered it the first time). Also, making it more private by removing the birthday info from the forums index page (replace that with YWS anniversaries / cake days).

Anyways, one thing I haven't said before is that the name change won't happen before making some changes to the site. After all, the name change is supposed to allow YWS to continue existing, but it won't exist under any name if certain changes aren't made. That includes things like a more mobile friendly design, a better publishing experience, and an expanded People tab to make keeping track of which clubs you're in easier.**


* This will be done anyways regardless of whether or not the site's name is changed

** Clubs really need to be expanded. I think they're core to the YWS experience, but as currently constituted, they're treated like an afterthought.

Since it’s been over three weeks since the last post, I think we can safely move on to voting.

I’ve been considering how to handle voting in a way that encourages participation while discouraging vote manipulation. Here’s the plan I’ve settled on:

• Each eligible voter will receive a unique, randomly generated token via PM.
• A poll page will be set up where voters enter their access token to cast their vote.
• A locked topic thread will display a post by a YWS bot indicating which tokens have voted. However, it will not reveal how each token voted.
• Voting will remain open for thirty days. Once it closes, the thread will be updated to show how each token voted.

This approach ensures voting is completely anonymous, completely transparent, and restricted to one vote per token. The downside is that people with multiple accounts can still vote multiple times. While I have a couple of methods to minimize this (which I won’t disclose for obvious reasons), no system is foolproof.

To further reduce this risk, only accounts created prior to November 1 will be eligible to vote. I apologize to those who joined after that date, but this is necessary to maintain fairness.

If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to let me know. As of now, voting will begin on December 15 and run through January 15. A super-majority of 60% will be required to change the name of the site.

Can you reiterate the choices beforehand, as well as the changes that will automatically be coming, now that AUS has passed their under-16 law? Also, I think that when all this does take place, a banner with all the important information would be good for those who may not be on frequently or show up post-vote for the first time since before this was a discussion. It might catch some people off guard if it isn't even the same name

The choice is just an up or down vote on changing the name to WriterFeed. YWS as a sub-site is a separate idea with its own unique challenges. If the vote fails, then YWS will remain YWS.

There will be a mass email, and a mass pm about the vote and potential name change.

So I know there is about to be a vote and cool. If that's what it takes to protect YWS from this possible social media bad then cool. But, I'm a lil confused. I've never really considered YWS as a social media. More of a writer's forum. To me it's like, If they ban YWS then they also have ban Reddit from the people. While I'm all for a social media ban, I'm more less than 20% convinced that YWS would be roped in. Sure there is an age restriction but that's also for hundreds upon hundreds of games where kids lie about their age. Heck, I'm sure there's prob a few users who have lied about their age.
Another thing is that the USA has been debating a national Tik Tok ban since the HQ for the platform is in China and China has been caught several times doing illegal things with the American technology. Not gonna get into the details but anyway when debating it with people several mentioned I think it was NordVPN or smt where you can just change your location. This can be done to watch shows that are only featured in Germany that you can't watch in the US. So who's to say that while Tik Tok might be off the app store, that people won't get Nord and change their location to still download it?
Idk that's just my thought on this. Bit of a ramble but hopefully it made sense.