Young Writers Society

Remember that there are villains and antagonists. Be sure to know what you're writing about.

A villain by definition is a pretty structured character. They normally are evil, for the sake of being evil. They are a stock character, villains never cease being villains. They are often used in stories, fables, fantasies, etc. where the evil, fear or challenges faced by the protagonist (Hero or heroine) are personified. So, if you have a villain-your protagonist is normally going to be a hero/heroine. They will often do deeds considered beyond the realm of antagonists. They don't just place stumbling blocks for the characters, they actively plot against the character/hero/ine.

On the other hand, if your protagonist is no hero/ine. Then you'll have to realize that a villain may be too strong for the story. One or more antagonists who place stumbling blocks or challenges in the way of your protagonist will suffice.... Here are some examples of each type of action that these characters might do..

Villain: Murder, rape, brutalize, fight to the death, send armies/cronies to kill main character, abduct, and when seeing they are about to lose they usually flee before they perish.

Antagonist: gossip, fight without intent to kill unless it is a part of their job, can be an institution or group of people who place blocks in the way of the main character, they will often have their own story line that is more developed and they can also change their minds and take on new goals/values. An antagonist is someone who is not inherently evil and is not a stock character. They can adapt and change.

Remember, all villains are a stock form of antagonist... but not all antagonists are villains.

I also wanted to add that antagonists may not have any malicious intent towards your character, but rather the goals of this (or subsequent) antagonist merely interferes with the goals of the main character... For Ex: If your character's goal is to reach the other side of the river, but there's no bridge and the government has placed a ban on cutting down trees, then the antagonist is the government- it prevents the character from being able to build a raft... etc.

Sorry, hope that clarifies.

bancheegal wrote:Remember that there are villains and antagonists. Be sure to know what you're writing about.

A villain by definition is a pretty structured character. They normally are evil, for the sake of being evil. They are a stock character, villains never cease being villains. They are often used in stories, fables, fantasies, etc. where the evil, fear or challenges faced by the protagonist (Hero or heroine) are personified. So, if you have a villain-your protagonist is normally going to be a hero/heroine. They will often do deeds considered beyond the realm of antagonists. They don't just place stumbling blocks for the characters, they actively plot against the character/hero/ine.

On the other hand, if your protagonist is no hero/ine. Then you'll have to realize that a villain may be too strong for the story. One or more antagonists who place stumbling blocks or challenges in the way of your protagonist will suffice.... Here are some examples of each type of action that these characters might do..

Villain: Murder, rape, brutalize, fight to the death, send armies/cronies to kill main character, abduct, and when seeing they are about to lose they usually flee before they perish.

Antagonist: gossip, fight without intent to kill unless it is a part of their job, can be an institution or group of people who place blocks in the way of the main character, they will often have their own story line that is more developed and they can also change their minds and take on new goals/values. An antagonist is someone who is not inherently evil and is not a stock character. They can adapt and change.

Remember, all villains are a stock form of antagonist... but not all antagonists are villains.

I've written characters with really no line between villain and hero. But even my most heartless and ruthless characters are human. That's what I make my characters: human. I add realistic flaws and motives and I find that far easier to write than a purely evil character. Even with one of my characters, Christopher Blanche who doesn't exactly have a conscience of his own, has a main weakness to him. He will listen to only three people in the world: His sister, Estella, his best friend Connor and Taylor. I give the readers a reason to hate certain characters, but still show them how human they can be. I don't believe there is anyone who is pure evil from the beginning. Even psychopaths have a turning point, a stresser.

I really don't care for Complete Monsters who do evil for the sake of being evil. It's been done, it's boring, and the stupidity inherent in such villains infuriates me to the point of incoherency sometimes. Of course, most of my worlds have, at best, grey and grey morality (though more commonly it ends up being grey and black), which as far as I'm concerned is a lot more interesting to read about and miles more fun to write.
Not that I'm against really, really evil villains who won't hesitate to slaughter hundreds of innocents to get what they want, I just like them to have some redeeming qualities as well to humanize them a bit. There is no such thing as someone who is completely, purely evil in real life, so why shouldn't the same hold true in fiction as well? If nothing else, make them a well intentioned extremist who honestly thinks they're doing right. Or give them a legitimate (from their point of view) reason to do evil, not just evil for evil's sake.
However, my favourite kind of villain is the villain with a personality just as developed as that of the hero's, with both good and bad qualities. Even better if they aren't so different from the heros (or vice versa, depending on one's point of view), with neither side being obviously better or worse than the other...

A completely evil (or nearly completely evil) villain lacks a sense of realism for me. I find villains like that boring, trite, one-dimensional, and almost humorous because it just signifies a cartoonish villain. I expect to find such villains in books targeted at younger readers, where morality is far simpler and clear-cut.

Like TNOandXadric, I like grey morality because it reflects reality best (and is much more interesting to explore, as a writer.) And I believe it makes villains much more villainous if they have that point of sympathy, and you can't just dismiss them as inhuman monsters. Humans have always complicated things, and by making your villains human, the story becomes muddled in terms of moral lessons, giving the reader more food for thought. And it always makes things much more interesting.

Keep in mind that "inherently evil" does not necessarily mean inherently evil in all they do. It's in relation to the protagonist. For example, a character who is of a minority race who faces racism everyday experiences "Evil" in the form of racism. Therefore a villain to this protagonist would be a person who believes vehemently in race-based superiority. It means that the protagonist's goals and believes are entirely the opposite in this character. So, to the main character, this person is evil... it doesn't mean they're not human... it just means that they represent evil in the protagonist's world.

The best antagonist/villain is the one that can actually steal the limelight from the hero should he choose to do so. Someone interesting, charming, engaging, charismatic. Someone well-developed with his own quirks and personality, with his own motives and reasons.

A villain who's just plain evil is no fun. The villain has to have a motive for doing everything. It's also much more fun if he always stays ahead. Magnificent Bastards are my favorite kind especially.

I want villains who have an insane goal but they have to truly believe they can achieve it. This makes them so much more tragic and sympathetic, IMO.

And people have a point.

All villains are antagonists but not all antagonists are villains.

Hippie wrote:It's always good if the villain has a knack of bringing out the worst in the protagonist(s).

Absolutely.

If you have read Cormac McCarthy's The Road there is a man who robs the protagonists. When the protagonists catch up to him, they rob him of everything (and I do mean everything with the exception of his life). Up until that point, we sympathized with the protagonists but at that point they basically committed a hideously slow murder.

Very true. This is a good discussion!

Here is what I think a villain should be like.

1: They should speak like a villain. They should scare you with their words, and reveal how bad they are slowly, but never reveal their full plan until they think they have won. Also, their dialog should be to the point. The villain is usually only in a few scenes, so their dialog should be interesting and make you want them to come back.

2: They shouldn't secretly be the main character's brother. Wow, there are better ways to shock your readers, unless you're going for the funny Austin Powers approach.

3: (this is my own taste) The villain shouldn't think he is really doing the right thing. A villain is only a villain when they are enjoying their work. It makes us hate/love them even more.

4: The villain should mostly know everything the main character doesn't. That's what makes them scary. The main character has to learn as the story goes on, but the villain is always one step ahead.

5 The villain should act according to his plan. That's right, plan. He must have a reason for being evil, not just serve his role as a villain. If they're just crazy and run about destroying people's lives, then they're not a villain, they're just crazy.

6. The villain should smile.

7. The villain shouldn't be all powerful. Yes, the main character has to work hard to defeat him, but it shouldn't be impossible otherwise the story is pretty much over from the start.

8. At the end of the story, it should be clear if the villain has won or lost. If he escapes the last scene in a cloud of smoke while the main character is standing there victoriously, then your book will kindle the bedroom fire I don't have.

Yeah, there's probably more, but I have evil work to do.

Hippie wrote:Well, I'd consider Smeagol one villain with split personalities. He's a good villain because he's got a good and bad side. The thing that makes him the villain is that the evil side wins out in the end. Look at Frodo. He's got a good side, undertaking this quest to save the world. He treats Sam like crap though. But in the end it's his good side that wins out, making him the hero.

Just wanted to say, an interesting part about Frodo is that although he tries to be good throughout all 3 books/movies, he actually turns evil when the decision comes to destroy the ring, "No, the ring is mine!" *Puts it on his finger, gets finger bitten off by smeagol*