Young Writers Society

Hi folks,

This Christmas holiday I've been reviewing a lot on the YWS forums, and I've been noticing trends such as bullying scenes. Today I finally got off my backside and wrote up my thoughts. Quote from my blog post on the subject:

Bullies. They’re everywhere. They insult Tamora Pierce’s Alanna of Trebond, they gang up on George RR Martin’s Jon Snow, they appear in at least half the works posted on the Young Writers’ Society. Whenever I read a bullying scene, I get a surge of indignation. Not for the victims -- for the bullies.

Victims are protagonists, they get names, faces and personalities, the reader is intended to sympathise with them. Bullies are stock characters imported straight from the Department of Manufactured Conflict: cardboard cut-outs, often unnamed, rarely characterised. Victims are lone heroes; bullies are cowards, so they hunt in packs. Victims get snappy comebacks; bullies whine and sneer. (Note how the bully in the Tamora Pierce scene is described as ugly. Remember, kids: ugliness = evil!) If victims don’t triumph now, winning over spectators in the process, they’ll get public and humiliating revenge later. Bullies remain despicable characters throughout the narrative, despised by the readers, the author and the other characters, unless the victim wins even them over with their awesomeness.

Poor bullies, they never win.

I also thought about a few suggestions for writing bullying scenes:

1. The purpose should not be to glorify the protagonist. Nor to make him look good in comparison to the evil bully.
2. Bullies need a good reason to bully. Stereotypically evil motivations like “He’s just jealous of the protagonist” aren’t good enough.
3. It is not open season on bullies. If someone makes insulting comments about the protagonist’s mother, the protagonist cannot legitimately chainsaw him to death.
4. It’s okay for the protagonist not to be squeaky-clean all the time.
5. Do not resort to making your victims beautiful and your bullies ugly as a cheap shorthand for good and evil. I swear, if I read another bullying scene in which the bully’s ugliness is lovingly described (like that Tamora Pierce scene) as a symbol of their nastiness, I will hunt someone down.
6. Therapy for the writer =/= effective fiction for the reader.
7. Don’t despise your own characters. It always shows.

What do you think? Has anyone else noticed a lot of similar bullying scenes on the forums? Do you spot them often in books? Can you improve on my suggestions?

Cheers,
Karsten

I find, in the schools that I attended in the past, most bullies are the more popular students, who weren't at all that ugly. People who bully always have a reason. Reasons such as:

1. They're being bullied which could be either from fellow peers or even siblings/parents. This may result in them bullying.
2. They may be trying to get noticed.
3. They merely want someone(s) to be frightened of them, to make them feel important.

Really, the list is sort of endless. Besides, everyone is a bully. Some people show their "bully" side more than others.

Also, perhaps writers portray bullies as "ugly" people because what they're doing is sort of an ugly trait. I don't know.

I believe I've ranted on needlessly and without a point.

Meadow

*moved to fiction discussion & tips.

Hehe, but jealousy does often have a role with bullying. That's why I bullied my little sister when I was younger! Though... it wasn't just because of that. Usually, she got away with something and I got in trouble and yeah... I felt justified in everything back then, even know now I largely realize it was completely petty.

Bully scenes remind me of "A Christmas Story" when Ralphie pummels that one guy.

Meadow:

MeadowLark wrote:I find, in the schools that I attended in the past, most bullies are the more popular students, who weren't at all that ugly. People who bully always have a reason. Reasons such as:

1. They're being bullied which could be either from fellow peers or even siblings/parents. This may result in them bullying.
2. They may be trying to get noticed.
3. They merely want someone(s) to be frightened of them, to make them feel important.

Really, the list is sort of endless. Besides, everyone is a bully. Some people show their "bully" side more than others.

I totally agree, Meadow, especially that "everyone is a bully". A lot of people can be bullies in the right circumstances. If I'm honest with myself, I've done things that are uncomfortably close to bullying. I do wonder if people maybe don't like to think of bullies as people - they perceive bullies as "the enemy", and so it's easier to make bullies stock characters, not truly people. That way you don't have to put yourself into a bully's head, you don't have to think about how complex bullying situations can be, you don't have to draw on things you've done that might be uncomfortably close to bullying.

Snoink:

Snoink wrote:Hehe, but jealousy does often have a role with bullying. That's why I bullied my little sister when I was younger! Though... it wasn't just because of that. Usually, she got away with something and I got in trouble and yeah... I felt justified in everything back then, even know now I largely realize it was completely petty.

You're absolutely right. I guess I'm just tired of bullies' motivations being used as another way of glorifying the protagonist. "She's only bullied because she's so wonderful! Everyone's jealous of her!" Right.

Oh, I remember that bully in Song. Not the best antagonist ever, I will say. However, I noticed in Protector of the Small the bully is done more effectively. He's beautiful, for one, but the way his eyes are described give him away. But he also has several reasons to go after Kel: Their training master promotes hazing, which Kel openly opposes because she's an idealist, so she gets into a lot of fights with this guy to defend his victims (Kel's actions are not always viewed as good. At least one of these pages hates her because of it); Kel is the first openly female page, and the bully considers girls to not be fit for warrior combat; he used to be the best, and Kel often showed signs of being better than he was. To him, that "golden boy" status was his identity; he doesn't just flat-out try to humiliate Kel, but goes for subtle ways that aren't easy to trace (which sometimes involve open humiliation, but it's not obvious). He also isn't nasty all the time. At one point, he does try to get on Kel's good side. And he gets axed off in a way that fits the world.



A slight deux ex machina, but the characterization was much, much better than in Song. On both sides, since it's some of Kel's flaws (that idealism is considered a flaw. Kel tears herself up more than once because she can't make things perfect) that pitch her against the bully in the first place. Her being against hazing is what turns what could have been cold hostility into full-out war.

[/end Pierce fandom]

Anyways! Yes, bullies are usually just stock characters. A good start, for me, is ask "why is the bully after the protagonist?" And you're right that it's got to be something more ingrained than jealousy. It can be upbringing, a rival to the status quo/the bully's ideals, or there's a spark of a small war caused by both sides.

Not saying I'm perfect in this, but I've tried to create a bully in my world who actually has some substance, and even the MC's respect. He's been assigned with my MC to guard someone he used to guard almost exclusively, and he doesn't consider women warriors (very sexist society) and doesn't like a woman who seems to be just as good as he is, with magic (another thing she has one-up on him), creeping in on his territory. He does little things to make sure the MC knows her place. The MC respects this, because she's got the same trait.

Again, not perfect, and he probably won't come off as a bully all that much in the scenes he's in (however, he might. I'd like to have him show up again, after his resentment of the MC's power has grown)

Snoink wrote:Bully scenes remind me of "A Christmas Story" when Ralphie pummels that one guy.

That movie is awesome xD

But I suppose all bullies eventually get what's coming to them. Karma

I don't read that much anymore (yeah, I suck... I blame school and an engineering major) but what about people that just enjoy being mean for the thrill of it? Are they generally used for bullies?

It's funny you should mention that. I can't say I come across it all too much in the books I read -- bullying yes, but not as you describe it -- but on the forums? Yes.

I should mention here that beautiful villains are in fact, just as bad as ugly ones. The whole "beautiful on the outside, rotten on the inside" is so overdone it makes me sick, at times. But I must stress this next point, I truly must. It's something that I come across a fair bit:

There is no such thing as a bad idea. Not for a character. Not for a plot. Not for anything. There is, however, such a thing as bad writing. And it makes all the difference.

I should mention here that beautiful villains are in fact, just as bad as ugly ones. The whole "beautiful on the outside, rotten on the inside" is so overdone it makes me sick, at times.

Here's where some conventions of fiction in general get to clash with cliches. A lot of times, the characters are all beautiful, only the good guys are beautiful, or the characters don't really have a description. It's hard to combat, as well. It's on the tricky side to describe an "average" character, in my opinion. It's on the tricky side to describe any character come to think of it. xD

Hey, Karsetn I just wanna tell thanks for posting it 'cause one of my stories published in YWS contains bullying.
Your contribution will help me to improve my story, thanks again!

You're welcome, Rakun. Glad I could help.

Another major bullying cliche is kids avoiding telling the teachers/authorities, even when there's no compelling reason to keep quiet. I know in some settings there is an element of "if you tell, you're just a baby" or even "if you tell, we'll hurt you worse", but I don't think it's as common in a modern school as fiction makes it out to be. Besides, things could become far more interesting if a teacher, counsellor or the police got involved in the story.