Young Writers Society

Hey! I was reading through the thread on favourite female characters there and realised that even in the past two years since that was posted, gender politics has shifted. The idea of "toxic masculinity" has come into play moreso recently, and I felt it would be a good idea to talk about writing male characters (especially male PoV, especially as the majority of our members are female!)

I always thought that I would find it hard to write male characters, but I finished a novel in male PoV without too much difficulty. However, taking a step back, I can see that both that character and the male lead from my own novel do have a lot of elements of toxic masculinity - they're both very arrogant, one is a so-called playboy and can be emotionally manipulative towards girls, the other in particular is emotionally shut off and makes a one-off misogynistic comment (which he later lives to regret). These are all displayed as character flaws rather than strengths, but even still, girls in the story find them attractive and people want to spend time with them. I can't decide if this is an issue or not (although I try not to write around 'issues' anyway, and just focus on the story and characters in front of me).

I guess this fits into a wider discussion of what is masculinity and what's toxic and what isn't, but for now, let's stick with the writing aspect:

1 - when writing a male character, are there traits you would include that you wouldn't necessarily include in a female character? (For instance, arrogance is a big one of mine).

2 - how do you write male characters displaying emotion? Do they cry? Do they get angry?

3 - if you're a girl, do you have trouble writing from a male perspective? Why/why not? And if you're male - are there recommendations you'd make that you think we ladies gloss over, or do you think we do an okay job ?

4 - if you're writing a character that you want to be 'masculine', what types of traits do you give them?

5 - is there any difference whatsoever between how you write male & female characters?

When it comes to traits for male characters, I like to give them a lot of variation. I like to make my characters very different so that if they were to (hypothetically) meet, they would all be very distinct from each other. So, when it comes to a trait that I would only include in male characters and not female characters, I can really only say that a wrathful or angry tendency is something I don't like putting into female characters.

Emotion affects everyone despite what some questionable people seem to think. *cough* SJWs *Cough* So I give my characters emotion, yes. This will be restated multiple times probably, but I take a lot of myself into characters, usually using one really bad thing about me as the basis for my character. I'm an emotional piece of trash, and I get really conflicted over multiple things so I take that emotion in my character. One Character might be friendly, and super helpful on the outside, but on the inside, they might feel very weak and hopeless, suffering from recurring nightmares. I like to do this to my characters because it's a message to the reader. Males feel emotion, despite the fact that we might hide it. Even those who know us the most, or those we are most close to may never know who we really are inside, and I love trying to portray that.

While I think the majority of females can write a male character, there is so little that is covered. I don't write female characters in large detail because I don't know what it's like being a girl, but I know what it's like to be a boy. For this reason, I find a lot of male characters written by females that have a lot of detail fail miserably at portraying males at times. For instance, Gale from Hunger Games is a seriously lacking character for me. So is Peeta, but I could jump into that later. Gale has little character development in terms of himself, it all just focuses around Katniss, which I understand, but you have to at least develop the side characters a little. Again, most female writers fail to write a male character with emotion, with a heart. All we get from a lot of books this day and age involve a male character who is simply there for "romance".

I don't care for masculine characters, so, seeing as I have never really written about Masculine characters I can't really say anything about that.

When I write my characters, I disregard the sex of the character, as anyone can have any set of traits. The main distinction is that females usually tend to be a lot kinder than my male characters.

The thing about masculinity is it varies from culture to culture. Writing about men from Japan will be different from writing about men from France, who will be different from men in the US.

I usually figure out what culture considers acceptable/non acceptable behaviour and then determine how much the characters subscribe to it consciously and subconsciously. To grab a fictional example, in Cat Steps, there's a type of masculinity from the Empire and a type of masculinity that is pretty prevalent in the mountains, and Kerani runs into both stripes. Empire based masculinity says women are to be protected and sheltered by men (which then gets interpreted in different ways— in the heart of the Empire, "sheltered" is simply "kept from fighting" and they're still allowed to create; in the outer reaches of the Empire, "sheltered" means "ignorant of everything and kept in a state of bliss"), while in the mountains men believe women should be taught to defend their creation as well as men.

As a result, I'll play up or down certain traits based on the gender roles expected and how well people fit into them. If somebody is trying really hard to be a certain way, be seen a certain way, his behaviour is going to be different from somebody who is different and doesn't care— but it'll also be different from people who fit in and don't need to try.

For emotion, I turn to the same things. In Western males, they often turn towards violence when they feel their masculinity was threatened to re-establish their identity. But somebody who was raised to know (or came to understand) violence isn't what makes a man, he'll turn towards different methods. Meanwhile, if the culture doesn't equate men with violence, then there won't be that dynamic at play at all.

I'm not exactly a girl, not exactly a guy, but I will say that it took me a little bit to really understand masculinity as a concept and I didn't really tackle male characters until I studied anthropology with a wonderful prof who made us examine culture for both masculinity and femininity. It's often treated as the default, but it's just as constructed as everything else in society (and, in the West, is often defined as "what women aren't").

Because the thing with all of this is every one of our experiences is unique to our background. An Egyptian man is going to experience masculinity differently from a Mexican man, because their cultures are going to express masculinity in different ways. I'm sure if you polled NYC, you'd find a different definition of "a man" in every major area.

All of that said, this is the exact same process I go through for all genders of characters.

I'm going to disclaim this post -- parts may be entirely projection. That's the danger of trying to generalize a group you belong to. I think these things apply to most men, though, so I'll roll the dice.

1 - when writing a male character, are there traits you would include that you wouldn't necessarily include in a female character? (For instance, arrogance is a big one of mine).

I'm not sure I would describe arrogance as a masculine trait, unless it's meant as a particular expression of egotism. There are a lot of women with huge egos but it tends to manifest differently. I wager the average braggart woman is going to be subject to more social punishment than would a man. She's going to be more passive-aggressive with her displays of superiourity. (At least where socially required.)

2 - how do you write male characters displaying emotion? Do they cry? Do they get angry?

From a man, anger is much more respected than sadness or any display of weakness, so outwardly, with those who aren't close friends, the generic male character has a better chance of showing anger.

Guys don't cry often though. I assume it's largely hormonal. I've read accounts from FtM trans people that it became, physically, much more difficult to cry when they started taking male hormones. That, plus the huge social stigma, means any male character is going to be crying alone, if at all. When a man cries in public you know something big has gone down -- usually it means someone he loves has died. (Or else he's just an uncommonly emotional dude. That happens too.)

3 - if you're a girl, do you have trouble writing from a male perspective? Why/why not? And if you're male - are there recommendations you'd make that you think we ladies gloss over, or do you think we do an okay job ?

Guys aren't doing rundowns of other people's outfits in their head. Guys are checking girls out, always. (Sound contradictory? It's not!) Guys aren't always thinking about sex but they're always aware of sex. Guys don't air every problem with their friends.

One huge difference between writing girls and guys is the style of inter-gender communication. Male friends "give each other s***" constantly. Think of it as friendly aggression. I think the purposes are manifold. It can act as a sort of safety valve for built-up frustration towards a person; it's a form of verbal competition (when people think of the classic "one-upper" d*******, invariably they think of a guy, for good reason. It's that masculine competitiveness taken to an absurd extreme.); and it's probably also a way of testing those on whom you rely, gauging their competence/mental strength. Plus guys are socialized -- in the Western world, anyway -- not to make outward displays of affection for other men, and that has to play a part. It can be a balancing act, though. If you go too far, or the guy you're making fun of is more feminine in his communication style -- describes me when I was younger, which made it hard to click with other guys -- the dude's gonna get p*****, and trouble can erupt. I've also noticed -- and this is kind of topsy-turvy funny -- some guys use that communicative norm of playful verbal aggression to mask real aggression. I.E., they'll say something insulting in an obviously malevolent tone, and if called on it will say they were "just playin', bro!" It's matryoshka doll banter. What's usually aggression concealing affection is just aggression with nothing but more aggression inside.

Girls do NOT do any of this with each other. (From what I've observed; correct me if I'm wrong.) It's social suicide. The passive-aggressive girl is a stereotype for a reason -- she'd be labeled a big-time b**** if she criticized another chick to her face, even jokingly. Meanwhile, if a guy talked to a female friend the way he talked with a male friend, he'd be considered a huge a******.

As they say, a woman flatters you and secretly hates you, a man poops on you and secretly loves you. :^)

4 - if you're writing a character that you want to be 'masculine', what types of traits do you give them?

Assertiveness; outward displays of dominance, for good or ill; (outward) stoicism; (relative) emotional stability; decisiveness; anger at disrespect, perceived or real; ambition; powerlust; competitiveness; reflexively directs anger outward instead of inward; strong desire to protect what he/she loves; conservative; traditional; paternal instinct; independence, self-sufficience in general; willing to upset others if he/she feels/thinks it's necessary; a million other things I'm sure I'm forgetting.

5 - is there any difference whatsoever between how you write male & female characters?

Yes. Men and women are biologically different and raised in different social worlds. I don't think one can realistically portray a character if one ignores his or her sex. (Obviously this depends on the type of story. Ripley from the movie Alien was written without sex in mind. It worked for a horror-action flick, but try doing the same thing with a story concerned with interpersonal drama.) Sex is integral to one's identity. Writing a story about a man and ignoring that he's a man is akin to writing a story about a black person in America and forgetting they're black. You may forget it, but the character never does.

The most important thing to remember, what keeps a writer from slipping into broad stereotype or idiotic extremes, is that a character is a person first, everything else second. Personhood must be the primary trait of any character. Everyone can empathize with, and write, a person. But if you see a character in your head as "a white woman, a fat child, a gay man," you're letting adjectives supersede the noun. You should be thinking, "a white female person, a young fat person, a gay male person."

So yeah, there's a difference. But the difference is always secondary. (And incidentally what any civil rights movement must be about.)

Thanks guys for the input!

I felt like I should have put a footnote in the OP (although thankfully we haven't derailed the conversation quite yet) that of course you write any character as a person first, demographic later. That said, it is foolish to assume that things like gender do not affect personality and interactions, so it's still good to talk about it.

@Rosendorn - yeah, culture has a lot to do with it. In real world examples, of course there's the Hispanic machismo you briefly touched upon that would have men interacting in a different way to Asian or African men. We also know a lot about what is harmful to men in our cultures and our ideas of masculinity - here in Ireland (and I'd say across the globe), where men are not encouraged to express feelings or emotions, they have a far higher suicide rate than women. This is one of the things that has had me thinking a lot, I have a lot of ideas about what is toxic, but trouble thinking of "masculine" traits that are not toxic/harmful to those that express them or those around them - Prok did a pretty good job of listing some off there (assertiveness, protectiveness, paternalism, independence etc etc).

@Prokaryote - had a lot of thoughts when reading your post. The crying thing is really interesting - although that said, it wouldn't be hard for me to cry less (cute dog videos? Crying. News stories from Syria? Crying. Someone shouting at me down the phone? Trying not to cry. I cry a lot. It's awful).

Initially when you were talking about guys insulting one another I was going to point out that this is an Irish trait altogether - we tend to 'slag' each other constantly as a mark of friendship. I know that this tends to shock people from elsewhere - in particular our North American classmates in college tell me it took them a long time to realise that it was done in jest. So girls here definitely have that kind of banter but even as I was thinking about this, I realised it's different. For instance, I would tease a friend relentlessly about say, a guy, or the fact she's always wearing running gear, but I would never swear at her, or call her a name, or say anything about something I think she might be insecure about. That's not, like, pussyfooting around it, I think it just comes naturally that there's a very obvious line between what is slagging and what is too-far. However in male friend groups, that line doesn't really seem to exist, they'll swear and call each other names and poke fun at each other even after the person has stopped laughing. So weirdly, despite that banter definitely existing among Irish female friends, it's different.

I've also noticed that men tend to swear a lot more around each other than around women, but I don't know if that's a cultural thing again. (I've had one male friend ask another to tone down his language because 'there are ladies present' more than once).

With regards to ego, it's actually funny, I struggle to find one of my female characters who has an ego, although I've managed to name a couple. I definitely don't think I've written an arrogant female character ever - that ego is expressed through judgement of others, haughtiness/aloofness/superiority. Yeah. Funny note.

Are guys really checking girls out all the time? This is something I find hard to believe.

I definitely don't think I've written an arrogant female character ever - that ego is expressed through judgement of others, haughtiness/aloofness/superiority.

Wouldn't haughtiness be a form of arrogance? I guess it depends how narrowly the word is defined.

Are guys really checking girls out all the time? This is something I find hard to believe.

To put it delicately -- if there's something to look at, it will be looked at. And there's usually something. Naturally, that can go wrong.

1 - when writing a male character, are there traits you would include that you wouldn't necessarily include in a female character? (For instance, arrogance is a big one of mine).

Personality traits - not really. However, the interaction between two male characters is different with the interaction between two female characters. The same can also be said if the male character interacts with a female character. Depending on the culture and religion to which the male character subscribe, he will show how a male acts on that way. For example, linking hands is normal between girls, but very suspicious between boys.

2 - how do you write male characters displaying emotion? Do they cry? Do they get angry?

Despite the fact that crying comes from sadness or (in rare instances) happiness, it is seen as a weakness when it is employed by a male character, so if he is sad, he most likely won't show that. Being said is an unmanly trait in the sense that you will be seen as sulking. Despite this, however, I tend to make the male character reacts without refrain to his emotion, so if he feels like crying, so be it! Cry! If he wants to punch someone when he's angry, do it! etc.

3 - if you're a girl, do you have trouble writing from a male perspective? Why/why not? And if you're male - are there recommendations you'd make that you think we ladies gloss over, or do you think we do an okay job ?

Hmm, well, I'm not sure about this. My bias is that I always prefer female main character than male character despite being a male, so I tend to look at the male character as being duller than female. Female character is shown to express herself more freely than male, making her male counterpart lacking emotionally attractive/intriguing traits.

4 - if you're writing a character that you want to be 'masculine', what types of traits do you give them?

He needs, on top of all traits, be mature. I've seen examples of male characters being immature and that their behaviour is understandable to them being 'boys', so I really like it if a male character is mature. Also, I also like to see him being strong and yet gentle at the same time. I don't really focus on defining traits as masculine or feminine in nature though, so I would like a character of any gender to have unique quirks or be eccentrics and basically separates themselves from the society's standard a little bit.

5 - is there any difference whatsoever between how you write male & female characters?

Based on observation, female characters are more reserved than male characters for me; thus, male characters are more prone to spontaneous actions which resulted on them being seen as fools.

EDIT: Prok's note about a male character being 'aggressive in a friendly manner' to another male character is very true. The jokes they fling at each other can probably make someone who is more accustomed to politeness have heart attack. They're that insensitive. And the ones who receive them are supposed to not take them offensively, and are understandable when they react with the same manner of 'friendly hostility' which might nor might not be because of a friendly intention. It's just fudging ridiculous that gentlemen are rare subspecies of men.