Young Writers Society

She has gone,-she has left us in passion and pride
Our stormy-browed sister, so long at our side!
She has torn her own star from our firmament's glow,
And turned on her brother the face of a foe!
0 Caroline, Caroline, child of the sun,
We can never forget that our hearts have been one,
Our foreheads both sprinkled in Liberty's name,
From the fountain of blood with the finger of flame!

You were always too ready to fire at a touch;
But we said: "She is hasty,-she does not mean much."
We have scowled when you uttered some turbulent threat;
But Friendship still whispered: "Forgive and forget!"

Has our love all died out? Have its altars grown cold?
Has the curse come at last which the fathers foretold?
Then Nature must teach us the strength of the chain
That her petulant children would sever in vain.

They may fight till the buzzards are gorged with their spoil,
Till the harvest grows black as it rots in the soil,
Till the wolves and the catamounts troop from their caves,
And the shark tracks the pirate, the lord of the waves:

In vain is the strife! When its fury is past,
Their fortunes must flow in one channel at last,
As the torrents that rush from the mountains of snow
Roll mingled in peace through the valleys below.

Our Union is river, lake, ocean, and sky;
Man breaks not the medal when God cuts the die!
Though darkened with sulphur, though cloven with steel,
The blue arch will brighten, the waters will heal!

O Caroline, Caroline, child of the sun,
There are battles with Fate that can never be won!
The star-flowering banner must never be furled,
For its blossoms of light are the hope of the world!

Go, then, our rash sister! afar and aloof,
Run wild in the sunshine away from our roof,
But when your heart aches and your feet have grown sore,
Remember the pathway that leads to our door!

This poem is by Oliver Wendell Holmes is tricky with multiple meanings. So for the first question I'll start with the classic:

1. What do you think this poem is about? Why?
When you bring in the why, make sure to give us a bit of evidence for your interpretations and feelings.

This poem follows in a very patriotic style of events, many mentions of liberty and loyalty.
2. Does the imagery appeal to you? Why or why not?

3. As a reader, which side of this poem are you more drawn to? The slight of hand romanticizing or the politics?

As you answer these questions, form a question for the next poster based on what you thought.

A tag for a few peeps.
@alliyah @Aley @Clarity @Vervain

b]Brother Jonathan's Lament for Sister Caroline[/b]

Since no one else has answered my discussion prompt yet, I think I'll just try and fill it out myself. I was planning on waiting until there were some actual answers before proceeding because my own view point gives away some of the big details about this poem. And I'll also ping a few more poetry peeps at this point in time to see if we can get some sort of discussion going on.


1. What do you think this poem is about? Why?
When you bring in the why, make sure to give us a bit of evidence for your interpretations and feelings.

I obviously think a lot about this poem because I chose it for the topic of discussion. American Civil War poetry is a big thing for me, joining with historical poetry in general. It comes down to the different stories that you can follow through the piece depending on your own interpretation of the emotions, and the historical context. (More opinions down in question 3)

If I'm remembering correctly, Holmes wrote this one for South Carolina, which was a very controversial movement because it was the first one to happen. The timeline is not matching up exactly in my mind at the current moment but I do know South Carolina was the first state in the line. It may be the reasoning for why this poem was so heartfelt. When other states followed in suit, it's already established reasonings for rebelling but South Carolina is a big surprise. (Even though they had already done it once before.)

It also represents an important part of the secession of the Confederate states because of so much sympathy that was felt for the other inhabitants. In this time in history, of course you're going to have relatives spread all around the small amount of country there is. And the idea of the sibling dynamic probably comes from a further cultural comparison in civil wars, where the ideal is often brother against brother. 'Caroline' goes by herself, so using fem pronouns might be compassion. Or viewing them as a weaker target.

Maybe.

This poem follows in a very patriotic style of events, many mentions of liberty and loyalty.
2. Does the imagery appeal to you? Why or why not?

I really do like the patriotic imagery that Holmes chose because he did go with a romantic view on loyalty, but not in the sexual way. It's talking about the love between different people(s) and the feeling of betrayal that follows, questioning their own relationship. At first, I was very against how much he romanticized the the relationship but now that I've had time to let it stir around my mind for awhile, it's beginning to appeal to me.

And here's just a few lines that really stuck out to me along the way:

Has our love all died out? Have its altars grown cold?
Has the curse come at last which the fathers foretold?

And the shark tracks the pirate, the lord of the waves:

Our Union is river, lake, ocean, and sky;
Man breaks not the medal when God cuts the die!

3. As a reader, which side of this poem are you more drawn to? The slight of hand romanticizing or the politics?

As the person I am, I prefer the political side but that's just personal preference from all the history that I study. It's always fun to look at another perspective of a complicated thing like this, especially the poetic perspective which is very concentrated on the imagery, while still remaining true to the topic at hand. This generally sounds like something that poetry might not be good at conveying, since we poets are such big fans of being vague about the greater issues in the world.

Holmes brings those feelings right up front, relying again on the loyalty/traitor comparison to keep it all together.

4. Here are my questions to follow after this post.

a. What is your favorite line in the poem? Why?
b. What do you generally think of political poetry?

My answers for first 3 Questions:


Responses to some of Lizz's points

'Caroline' goes by herself, so using fem pronouns might be compassion. Or viewing them as a weaker target.

Maybe.

I'm very interested in the pronoun choices in this piece too! My confusion was with the "them" in stanza 4-5 as I say up above. But yeah, you raise a good point, since most people immediately go to the "brother vs brother" and "men are the only people effected by wars" (<- obvi not true) thinking back then - I'm surprised that this isn't a poem about Jonathan and Carlton, but is instead about Jonathan and Caroline. - You might be right that it's to maybe show compassion or the weakness of S. Carolina, I think it was more/also for the aspect of contrast and maybe even engaging negative stereotypes about women from the time "male"/"strong/principled/thoughtful" vs. "women"/ruled by emotions" - if that's the case - that makes the poem more problematic certainly. I also think it might just be so that readers think this is a really weird incestual romantic poem upon the first read - but I could be wrong there!

also on your point

At first, I was very against how much he romanticized the the relationship but now that I've had time to let it stir around my mind for awhile, it's beginning to appeal to me.

Yeah, I'm not a super big fan of the romantic notes in this poem, mostly because the two are siblings. I wonder why Holmes didn't choose like a husband and wife relationship or something different, because it just seems strange to me. - Particularly this line,

Has our love all died out? Have its altars grown cold?

What sort of sacrificial love is promised at an altar? Marriage!

However, Holmes does go ahead and put "FRIENDSHIP" in caps for us, so that we don't run away too far in that version of interpretation. Still, I wish he'd either went less lovey-dovey, or made them husband/wife and just went all out for it.