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Brevity and Imagery - How to Incorporate Those Two?



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Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:36 am
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Lightsong says...



I have always believed that a sufficient imagery comes with a cost - a lack of brevity. It requires one to lengthen the sentence, as longer sentence provides more space for imagery.

Brevity, on the other hand, to me is the sharpest way of delivering a message or idea, and as all things sharp have small points, it is best employed in a short sentence; that is, the focus is in each word rather than the whole construction that will paint a certain image in readers' mind.

As such, I think the balance between those two aspects is rather delicate. Can a poem possess both in a equal manner? If the desirable proportion is one that is not balanced, which aspect should be put more emphasized? Finally, can a poem become effective by relying on one aspect only (or lacking the other aspect)?

Discuss!
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Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:08 am
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Apricity says...



I both agree and disagree with your first statement, the idea that sufficient imagery comes at the cost of brevity. First, there is the implication that brevity is something that is needed in all poetry, and sometimes it is. But others, the lack of brevity in itself is a style. Consider the German poet Rilke's poems. He is known for his lyrical intenseness present in his poems, there is imagery here, whether it is efficient is dependent on the individual reader but, whilst it is intense the imagery is also well picked and succinct. Similarly, Frost's Birches is loaded with imagery but none of it is convoluted or redundant. It only helps to engrave a clearer and deeper image in the reader's mind.

I don't think a poem can be efficient without brevity, unless the poet intends it to be convoluted and ambiguous. However, I'm not well versed enough in poetry to think of an example, I'm sure there are poems out there that does just that. But a poem can be efficient without imagery, think Robert Frost's The Road Not Taken, it's written in the format of a narrative poem with minimal or close to no imagery. But as you can see, that doesn't lessen the impact of the poem at all.


The balance between the two is incredibly delicate, it takes skill and practice to achieve that balance. How do you weave in enough imagery whilst maintaining the brevity of the pice? This is something I'd like to hear from others as well..because honestly I have no idea.
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Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:51 am
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niteowl says...



I'm not sure the two ideas of brevity and imagery are completely opposed, although they can be. In my mind, you can use imagery to make a piece more efficient, like using one or two sharp words instead of several boring adjectives.

For example, right now I'm sitting on a bed with red sheets and a brown blanket. If I was writing a poem about that for some reason, I might say

Here I sit
on cherry sheets,
wrapped in a chocolate blanket.

Or I might say

Here I sit
on blood-colored sheets,
drowning in a muddy blanket.

They're about the same length, but the first example is clearly more positive than the second. In this example, I've used the imagery to express the emotion. Granted, I would want to expand on this for a real poem, but using the imagery can help make the image briefer.

As for combining the two, I think my best attempt at doing this was Hope. I reference my own poems not because I think I'm the greatest poet ever but because I know my own thought process. Here, I wanted it to be short and still have a strong image, so I thought through every single word. However, looking at the reviews, it seems like some readers didn't get the image I was alluding to. Unfortunately I never came up with a more poetic way to say "a leaf that looks like lots of fun to crunch but then when you step on it it's soggy so it makes you sad". :P Still, it seems like many people got the general theme of broken promises and disappointment, so I guess it was at least somewhat effective.

I...have not been very brief about this, have I? :P It's an interesting topic, to be sure.
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Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:17 am
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alliyah says...



I'm not sure I should be giving suggestions on brevity, since it's definitely not one of my skills (in reviews or in my own writing). :D However, I'll throw my 2 cents in here for what it's worth. I believe that I would agree with @niteowl that the goals of sufficient imagery and brevity don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I think one good way to accomplish this, is to not only use full-fledged adjectives like others have suggested, but to also use your nouns in effective ways to capitalize on word-economy and specificity. What I mean by this, is that saying "I really love my fuzzy and brown dog" is less specific, succinct, and sounds less poetic than "I adore my Irish Terrier". If you use specific nouns that have some weight, connotation, and symbolism to them your poem gets a lot more meaning without having to "spell it out". Now some of this meaning wont be as readily accessible to readers without the knowledge of what those words mean (for instance if you can't picture an Irish Terrier in your mind, the line would become less meaningful). But sometimes it's good to write a poem that is accessible at different levels (working in different senses, references, symbolism, that would be meaningful to different people). So long story short: don't just use descriptive adjectives, use descriptive nouns too! :)

I would also say that I don't think that poems necessarily need to have the goal of brevity in mind. Although, on YWS they might be more likely to be read if they're on the short side and easier to digest in one sitting. In my opinion just because a poem is long doesn't mean that it loses literary merit; as long as they're making use of those extra words to capitalize on some elegant figurative language and aren't just being redundant.
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Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:42 pm
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Audy says...



Hm.

I guess it helps me to view brevity and efficiency in terms of economics. Word count is the $dollar amount, something that can symbolize the cost, the time and effort a reader puts into reading your poem. All things equal, it is costly for a reader to delve into a 100,000 word poem. It is cheap to read a 50 word poem. That's all things being equal though, and words are not equal.

What is the WORK the poem accomplishes for that dollar amount? What do the readers get out of that poem and that time investment in return?

The more work a poem can do with the least cost, that is an efficient poem. The Wasteland, Prufrock, these are not short poems, these are not easy poems. Yet their outcomes are still greater than their parts to certain audiences.

But words are contextual. Not all words are equal even the SAME word in different poems, because value is created in context. Water in a rain forest has a different value than water in the desert. You want to find a fresh and creative way to write about love? You have to stop writing about love to write about love. :wink: Heh <3

Even in a short poem of 50 words where that one word may triply act as an allusion, subvertsion, a subtext, irony and sarcasm- just because it is only one word, doesn't mean it isn't costly for the reader to understand the full impact and nuance and irony. A reader who is rich in the language of poetry may be able to afford it, an everyday -does-not read- a lot average Joe may not. A rare word nobody uses can be VALUABLE precisely because it is unique and nobody uses it. But like..if literally it is so rare we have to take a dictionary out and translate a language or two then that cost investment may not be worth the word.

We don't see many lengthy pieces with brevity precisely because it is DIFFICULT to achieve such a paradoxical structure, like if it were an upside-down pyramid -- theoretically possible, but ...not really xD so we think of brevity as synonymous with succinctness but brevity contains more meaning that gets lost if we just think of it as a "short poem", brevity is more like cheap + effective in combination. Not so much about the rare words nobody uses but the innovation of a word. Taking a cheap word everyone uses and transforming its context to PRODUCE A LOT OF wORK. That is ideal. A sustainable poem for the every man and the rich man both.

So that is brevity in terms of a "word".

In terms of imagery, lol. Imagery does to the "word" what compounded interest does to money. 1,000 words for every picture; a picture in one word, you do the math.

So the topic's question, more words = more imagery. Yes but you may be spending more than you gainn you have to be careful and cut away the words that do not serve your purpose.

What about less words = more and more imagery :P
Find your water in the desert.
Find your cheap every man word you can innovate to create an industry!

But how...?

Ahh. That is the ultimate secret! It takes practice! Devotion, skill, luck, study!

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Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:08 pm
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Radrook says...



When seeking poetic brevity it is essential that we be careful not to sacrifice mood enhancing repetition for emphasis. Shakespear's "Out, out brief candle." would look awfully weak if written just "Öut brief candle."
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/179946 ... g-shadow-a

Or Tennyson's Marianna would just not carry the same punch without its constant refrains

She only said, ‘My life is dreary,
He cometh not,’ she said;
She said, ‘I am aweary, aweary,
I would that I were dead!’
http://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/tennys ... ion1.rhtml


Nor would Poe's Raven without its repetitive:

"Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore."
“Defamation; is an act of impiety.”
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