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World War III Help



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Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:35 am
rolf18 says...



So as the backdrop and genesis for my novel, World War III is occurring. It would only be a couple years from now (about 2014) so international relations and technology won't have changed too much. What I need help on is making sure that my ideas on how they work are realistic and possible, don't leave anything important out, make mistakes, etc. Below is a summary of what I've planned out.


North Korea launches an attack on South Korea. The U.S., South Korea, France, Russia, U.K., Japan (who reveals its new military and that it is now a nuclear power),  China (who broke ties with their ally) , and other U.N. allies mount an overwhelming offensive against the North. But the mountainous terrain proves inhospitable and the Allies suffer heavy losses. Meanwhile, Russia, who's been suffering severe attacks from Chechnya and the (separatist country defeated and reinstated into Russia in late 90s) region, both of Muslim majority. After strained U.S. and NATO relations with Russia, (specifics not decided, this is one of the things I'd like help on) and the near revival of the Cold War, Russia plans to topple the world empire America. They launch an ICBM strike on Mecca, completely obliterating it. But the missiles are disguises as Israeli Jericho-IIIs. The Muslim world rises up in arms and for the first time in ninety years they are united by a single man, the caliph, into the world's biggest country, stretching from Mozambique to Kazakhstan and with a population of 1.8 billion. The country is called Ummah. War begins everywhere and Israel is swamped, utterly crushed by Ummah even with assistance pouring in from the U.S. And U.N. America, known as a close ally to Israel, also suffers. Even in the homeland of America where a civil war breaks out. There are three factions, the Muslims, the ultra patriot militias, and the Military, all fighting for control. There is attack on American soil which rivals 9/11, a terrifying human-engineered disease is released in Washington D.C.‘s water supply, killing thousands. It is never discovered whether it was the ultra patriots or the Muslims. Islamaphobia reaches record heights and concentration camps for Muslims are erected, as well as mass killings. Meanwhile Africa is plunged into horrible war as non-Muslim regions fight for independence and genocide begins in Indonesia as the Muslims start to exterminate the Christians and Hindus. Muslim militias invade Indian and the India-Pakistan conflict finally reaches the boiling point and both countries are pulverized by nuclear missiles. The U.N. is unable to intervene in time, their focus thrown off-kilter by the recent war. America eventually discovers that Russia was behind the missile strike and reveals this to the world. Ummah responds in kind and Russia bears the full brunt of their hatred. Bio-warfare becomes rampant around Russia and the Middle East, as all sides resort to tactics that were once reviled. Millions die, most of them civilians. South Africa begins to shake under the turbulence that the rest of Africa is suffering and a small but incredibly vocal minority arises to bring back the apartheid, lead by Mathias Grønkjær, an ex-National Intelligence Service agent. He manages to rally his supporters and a violent civil war breaks out as Grønkjær attempts to reinstate the apartheid regime. South Korea begins to fall to the North as America, U.N., Russia, and China move to respond to the Ummah threat. The civil war in America winds down, but south of the border more problems arise. Mexico, long ravaged by brutal drug violence, finally falls to the drug cartels and the reemergence of the Jaguares Cartel. (A cartel that existed in my universe but was mostly disbanded in 2009.) Utilizing a strategy that is not built completely on brute force, they infiltrate the government and bring it down from the inside in a long term strategy that had been in place since the 80s. Mexico becomes completely ruled by the Jaguares, any and all resistance brutally squashed before it can form. Mexico’s influence begins spreading throughout the rest of of South America. The U.S.-Mexico border is heavily militarized and people of Latin descent face persecution similar to that which the Muslims had already faced. Drugs are spread throughout the world, especially America, rotting countries from the inside out. In the rest of the world, the biggest war the world has ever seen still rages. Because of the use of nuclear weapons in the war, World War III was given another name. The Nuclear War.
  





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Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:14 am
Ego says...



First of all, Ouch. That hurts to read.

That being said, there are a few problems with your concept.

North Korea launches an attack on South Korea. The U.S., South Korea, France, Russia, U.K., Japan (who reveals its new military and that it is now a nuclear power), China (who broke ties with their ally) , and other U.N. allies mount an overwhelming offensive against the North. But the mountainous terrain proves inhospitable and the Allies suffer heavy losses.


No. North Korea could not withstand an attack from South Korea and the US alone, let alone with China, Russia and the UK getting in on the action. The North Korean people as a whole want to reunite with south Korea, as many of them have family members there. They are largely fed propaganda by their government, and would not likely fight once that is exposed for what it is. This is truly a case where a country's people would likely welcome an invasion with open arms.

There are many, many problems with your premise, in my opinion, but none so glaring as this:

Because of the use of nuclear weapons in the war, World War III was given another name. The Nuclear War.

The instant a nuclear weapon was used, the world would be doomed. Both Russia and America have enough of them to destroy each other and the better half of the world.

Other problems:

Meanwhile, Russia, who's been suffering severe attacks from Chechnya and the (separatist country defeated and reinstated into Russia in late 90s) region, both of Muslim majority.
...
They launch an ICBM strike on Mecca, completely obliterating it. But the missiles are disguises as Israeli Jericho-IIIs.
...
The Muslim world rises up in arms and for the first time in ninety years they are united by a single man, the caliph, into the world's biggest country


Russians instigate the biggest unification of religion the world has ever seen, but is currently warring with a sect of Islam? They would be creating their own demise.

I fail to see why a militia would battle for control of the USA in a crisis. Generally speaking, people unite when faced with and outside crisis, not rebel. Good examples of this; Pearl Harbor (WWII), Sinking of the Lusitania (WWI), and 9/11 (indirectly causing Operation Iraqi Freedom). Through all of these crises, the country banded together, not fell apart. However, they are not crucial to your premise. The country can be unified but still suffer from "Islamaphobia." It can still be infiltrated and poisoned. Just leave out the civil war, in my opinion.

...Interestingly enough, you essentially leave Africa as it already is.

Japan does not have a standing army. They could not raise a standing army without America's knowledge. Drop that idea entirely.

Proposed solution: Have Iran launch a disguised missile at it's own citizens, blaming Israel. Iran becomes the capital of the Muslim super country, and uses its already close ties with North Korea to forge an alliance with them, instantly becoming quite formidable in the process. America would be very hard pressed to help Israel, and would be generally weakened were North Korea to assault South Korea. Once South Korea fell, it would be a matter of time before Japan (without a standing Army) did as well. India, Philippines and Australia could follow.

Your new Allies and Axis would be as follows:

Allies
USA & Canada
Western Europe
China
Russia

Axis
United Communist Korea
Muslim Super-Country

Unaligned
Africa
South and Central America

Notable Countries Invaded by Axis
South Korea
Japan
Philippines
Australia
India
Israel

...Just my 2 cents.

--D
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Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:54 am
rolf18 says...



Thank you so much for the feedback! Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about Japan having a new military and how obvious that would be. Also, sorry for that giant solid paragraph, my formatting screwed up. Bleh, computers. I'm not making excusing anything, but I'd just like to point out that many of the events that I added were based off real world things.
But I think North Korea would be a very similar situation to Afghanistan. The terrain and the sociopolitical climate are similar. Both countries are very mountainous and therefore difficult to completely purge of enemies and Afghanistan has certainly stood up well enough to the combined might of NATO. The ten years that we've been there we've made practically no progress. Yes, that's a good point, many North Koreans certainly would welcome an invasion. But there's enough that are so incredibly loyal they would put up a good fight, much like the Taliban.
About the use of nuclear weapons dooming the world, I may be misunderstanding this, but neither of those countries really used nukes. I never mentioned America using them, but while Russia used one, it was supposed to be from Israel, not actually Russia. (If that makes sense.) India and Pakistan did, and though I didn't mention it in this draft, North Korea does as well, against Japan.
Also the next part, Russia and Chechnya are actually fighting a war, I just added my fake country for the sake of continuity, and then extrapolated, saying the situation spiraled MASSIVELY out of control.
I added the third faction, the militias, because there's recently been a surge of militias in America that are essentially incredibly radical/extreme right-wing white supremacists. There's quite a few of them, though they're generally pretty small. But they take their task seriously, are well armed, and train like a real army. I think as a guerilla force they'd be pretty effective. One of the contingencies many plan for is an invasion by a Muslim Army, where they would have to save America. (As they view the military as a left-wing enemy.)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...022516,00.html

http://www.publiceye.org/rightist/milnatbl.html

http://www.publiceye.org/rightist/dj_mili.html

http://www.publiceye.org/tooclose/chapter-excerpt.html

Yeah, Africa I really need to put some more work into, especially since I'd like to portray it as kind of coming out on top. I think it has so much potential, especially with all of its natural resources, and China could maybe involved in Africa's ascent as well, since they've lately been putting so much into the continent.
As for Japan being a nuclear power, I actually based that off a real movement that's gaining support in Japan currently, mainly because of the threat that North Korea poses. Here's some links.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ea-threat.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...Ek0&refer=asia

I really like your solution though, and how you laid out the various factions.
And if I've got anything wrong in my above explanations, please tell me.
  





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Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:49 am
MeanMrMustard says...



Going to lend my 2 cents, though Buscador said it very well.

rolf18 wrote:But I think North Korea would be a very similar situation to Afghanistan. The terrain and the sociopolitical climate are similar. Both countries are very mountainous and therefore difficult to completely purge of enemies and Afghanistan has certainly stood up well enough to the combined might of NATO. The ten years that we've been there we've made practically no progress. Yes, that's a good point, many North Koreans certainly would welcome an invasion. But there's enough that are so incredibly loyal they would put up a good fight, much like the Taliban.

Here's what you're not getting about Afghanistan being hard to keep stable: location and who's around them. How can you stabilize a country ruled by the Taliban, search the countryside for them, hold positions in cities, protect citizens, and hold the borders to stop more Taliban from coming in? You have to account for the fact that people are moving in from the countries around Afghanistan to bolster the counter-"allies" holdings there.

With North Korea, it's more than possible with how isolated they are. The problem before was China. China was upstart, zealous, and just itching to keep competition away from it. Consider this: why does China keep NK around? Could it be it weakens SK and puts the US in a bad position? China has no desire for any conflict with NK until that country becomes a true liability, that said, there is literally nothing to gain for China in protecting of helping the NK's today beyond amusement to see if they could keep them around if anyone ever invaded. You have to account for this difference in the flow of human bodies in and out of war zones. There are reasons why martial law and restricted travel are enforced in basically every modern-ish war in history.

Oh, um, NATO? No, no, no....NATO is not a competent fighting force. NATO's goal is supposedly avoiding conflict, and even if they do engage in fighting, they aren't an agent of war or serious occupying force.

About the use of nuclear weapons dooming the world, I may be misunderstanding this, but neither of those countries really used nukes. I never mentioned America using them, but while Russia used one, it was supposed to be from Israel, not actually Russia. (If that makes sense.) India and Pakistan did, and though I didn't mention it in this draft, North Korea does as well, against Japan.

That's a dead end plot device though. Caput. Ever heard of MAD? It makes no sense for so few bombs to be used, unless, you have an awesome and believable device to cover up that reality. MAD is still very real, and honestly, it doesn't need Nukes to happen anymore.

Also the next part, Russia and Chechnya are actually fighting a war, I just added my fake country for the sake of continuity, and then extrapolated, saying the situation spiraled MASSIVELY out of control.

So Ummah goes berserk...where did they get this capability? Those countries you outlined aren't necessarily brimming with industry and economic ability. Do they really want to risk fighting both Russia and the majority of the West? China hasn't, why would this conflict spark such a reaction?

I added the third faction, the militias, because there's recently been a surge of militias in America that are essentially incredibly radical/extreme right-wing white supremacists. There's quite a few of them, though they're generally pretty small. But they take their task seriously, are well armed, and train like a real army. I think as a guerilla force they'd be pretty effective. One of the contingencies many plan for is an invasion by a Muslim Army, where they would have to save America. (As they view the military as a left-wing enemy.)


Okay, that could work. Could. However, understand that the history of many militias is they are actually an extension of very powerful people's whims and organizations seeking to act covertly; so...consider them as being more than just "a group" unless you have a really, really well designed history and makeup for them.

Yeah, Africa I really need to put some more work into, especially since I'd like to portray it as kind of coming out on top. I think it has so much potential, especially with all of its natural resources, and China could maybe involved in Africa's ascent as well, since they've lately been putting so much into the continent.

I would suggest Africa holding a grudge against Europe. The source of nearly all of their woes for the last thousand years or more. At a time, the empires in Northern Africa would the epicenter of the world, but that was thousands of years ago. Also, the part with China is true, and it would make sense I think if the two paired up...just figure out the intrigue and how Africa can defend itself.

As for Japan being a nuclear power, I actually based that off a real movement that's gaining support in Japan currently, mainly because of the threat that North Korea poses. Here's some links.

Japan puts a LOT of things up in their government, but it's for show (the Japanese people like it, applaud, then forget the next day and repeat this ad infinitum). Don't take anything about that seriously; Buscador is right, more than you think, that the US has the final word in military matters for the Japanese.


These ideas can be fun to run through and work out all the kinks. Lemme know if I misunderstood anything or got anything wrong!
  





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Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:09 am
Ego says...



But I think North Korea would be a very similar situation to Afghanistan.


Terrain, yes. In all else, no. The people we are fighting in Afghanistan are not the Afghan army. They are an insurgent group. It's very similar to the American Revolution, wherein we would be the redcoats, and they would be the colonists. North Korea has a formidable standing army, and would attempt to fight straight up with anyone around. They would lose without help.

As for Japan being a nuclear power, I actually based that off a real movement that's gaining support in Japan currently, mainly because of the threat that North Korea poses. Here's some links.


Just because Japan wants an army doesn't mean they will be allowed to have one. They are allowed to have special forces and police force, but nothing else. Same with Germany. It's like an insurance policy to prevent WWII from repeating itself.

I still think you should abandon the militia idea. Even crazy right wing extremists realize that a country fighting against itself cannot win against another country.

--D
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