Young Writers Society

Ever the poet, I find myself led in writing by emotional impulse and drive; and because of this have trouble writing fiction at large because it often requires writing against my emotional grain, which is to say it makes me leave my headspace and go to another, which just doesn't work for me.

I want to be better at this feat.

How do you go against your emotional grain in writing? Do you fake your emotional state with music or ambiance? or do you just stone-face your way through until you have your stoic ideas out, then apply synthetic emotions to the page?

I will honestly say that, thus far, I've gone through every emotion in real time that's made it onto my pages, and I believe this to be taxing on me as a writer.

I look forward to the discussion.
Ty

I've got to say, plot. Plot and plot and plot. Like, it's the difference between poetry and fiction, methinks.

I first started creative writing with fiction. I love it mainly because it enables me to put my ideas (that are easily created) on paper. Characters also motivate me in fact because without them the plot doesn't go through.

And then I made bad poetry before I got better and the main thing I can say about it is that it focuses on emotion and imagery a lot, and also it focuses on the narrator/persona so much. It's much more personal than fiction and that makes it difficult for me sometimes because it explores each detail and make all of them built into this powerful piece, while I'm more interested in putting all these ideas into one story.

I have to say that fiction's dependence on emotion is as equal as it is on other aspects, and perhaps this is where you need to focus on. Fiction considers plots, characters, and settings as well as pacing and all, and you have to have a stable amount of passion on each aspect.

I write fiction in the old-fashioned way (without music and other things to help me) using a laptop, so my advice is to figure the whole thing. Sometimes you need the idea to propel you into starting and finishing a story, and you just have the urge to immortalise it on paper. You have to have that passion to keep going if you're aiming to work on larger medium like novel.

Yo, this is something that I've actually been thinking about. Sometimes when my characters are in a negative headspace or just have a completely different set of emotions going on that I'm not feeling, I have great difficulty "feeling it," never mind writing it. It's one of those things that, I like, don't want to force myself into, especially if I'm enjoying the mood I'm in, but I also feel it challenges me as a writer and a person to step into another person or character's headspace and think like them, maybe... without engaging emotionally? So, faking, it basically.

It sounds in-genuine because it is, but I guess I've kind of just accepted that I'm not always gonna 'feel it' when I write. And just because I'm not doesnt' make the character's any less... well, I would say real, but the characters AREN'T real so...

I guess it's just a challenge to choose the right language to fit the mood when you're writing against your emotional grain. Maybe it's a skill? To like, make it convincing? I don't really know.

I just know I struggle with that exact same thing, and the only way I get through it is by forcing myself through it. I know if I put it off and wait for a 'better day' then it's likely I'll never get to it at all. If, when I'm editing, or re-reading I wanna change something, I'll do that, but in the moment where I'm writing the scene or whatever, I'm just like: "ok, let's do this."

Sometimes it feels like I'm pulling teeth. But as you say, it is emotionally taxing.

I mean, I guess I don't have anything really new to contribute to this conversation in hindsight, but yeah, that's where I'm at.

I wouldn't say anything is a fake emotion as much as it is an undirect emotion. Just because I didn't have an experience or it's not what I'm currently feeling doesn't mean I write it off as fake. I don't write what's directly there because as you said, it's straining.

I wouldn't say fake emotion is accurate. Indirect emotion? Emotion that came from further than what I'm feeling on the surface of my skin? Yes. This seems emotionally taxing because you're coming from a place that's too personal, and thus you're running out of content to write and being too attached to actual experiences.

For example, I just read a poem about light. Physical light. Now I have the urge to write a poem because I used a poetry book of mine I haven't read a lot out of as a prompt. Is this emotion not real just because I've used another resource to evoke or trigger this emotion? No. I don't mean to bring Harry Potter up (not a large fan), though there's a quote that's appropriate for the situation:

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” -- Dumbledore

I don't write poems about what's 'directly personal' to me because first of all, that's emotionally draining, and second of all, that's only on the surface. So far, my summer's been spent for the most part in the house on YWS. Is that what I'm writing about? No. I don't attempt to mold an experience or event directly into a poem. I've learned that doesn't work. Instead, I try to mold a poem from a more indirect stance. Of course, this doesn't mean you're not allowed to write from your experiences, though I don't. I have a boring life on the exterior. I don't fake emotion. I dig deeper for it. I don't wait for something to happen that's worth writing about.

Just because I drank coffee this morning doesn't mean that's what I'm going to write about. A more suiting example might be that just because I might get in a fight with someone in my family later today doesn't mean I write about that. Writing about that is emotionally draining. I admit, I might be inspired by a physical experience, though that usually isn't what the poem is solely about. Seems to me that when your life isn't poetic, you stop writing. Take a plunge into the spiritual side where I've learned that nothing is fake, it's just invoked a different way. Another example, just because I feel I haven't hit the point home:

I recently found a song a week or two ago, The Suburbs - Arcade Fire. This song brought out emotions from inside me. Does that mean I'm directly involved or connected with the lyrics? Not exactly. I didn't know exactly why I enjoyed this song so much other than the fact that it's by Arcade Fire at first, though I learned.

The music video is based off a short film called Scenes From the Suburbs by Spike Jonze. I watched this. I felt moved by this, though at first I didn't know why. Maybe it's because I have the fear in the movie. Maybe it's because I'm afraid of alienation of childhood friends after adolescence. All of the above, really. Those feelings were just harder for me to find, though they were still real.

This isn't fake emotion as much as it is evoked emotion. Try it out, writing a poem off something that isn't directly related to your life. How people write poetry and where this poetry stems from isn't the same, so I'm unsure of how you'll handle this. Personally, this is how I write poetry. Instead of using real-life experiences, I dig for those thoughts. I dig for those emotions and conjure them to the page.

The first step is to stop invalidating these other emotions and treating them as real too. Treating them as equally important. One way or another, I hope you leave this strain you're in.

Hope this helps, Lumi.

This is going to be less advice and more just thoughts from another poet who does the exact same thing. Except I suppose, with a slight variation. I experience every emotion in real time as I write my poems as well, and to quote Shinji Moon, writing those poems hurts in all the places it shouldn't. In that you're right, it is very taxing and draining on the writer.

Except I never go against my emotional grain in writing, because that's just not me. That's not how I write, and if I did, it'd feel wrong, it'd feel like this poetry isn't my poetry. But the reason is taxing, is that most likely often those emotions are strong, raw ones. I don't apply synthetic emotions because I can't, and stone-facing through my poetry doesn't work either. I work with the grain, but I try to make it less painful.

If my emotions when approaching a poem, is like a river, a relentless torrent which courses through my brain, I try and let it calm down first. Less thinking about capturing the emotion in words, or struggling to find words to catch it and just feel it. Waiting for it to simmer down, and then reflect on it, and then, I start writing about it. It's like waiting for the waves to calm, calm enough that you can still observe the ripples and the movement of the water without getting caught in it and have to physically fight or pull yourself out.

I guess a worthwhile question to ask yourself might be, what exactly is it that makes those emotions so taxing, because Lumi, emotions are such an essential part of your poetry and who you are as a writer (from the works you've posted and I've read) that I feel like going against the emotional grain might not be the best idea here.

Well, to me, if I run into a moment where I need to write differently from what I'm feeling (like a highly emotional scene when I'm feeling calm, a calm "sequel" scene when I'm upset or something), I just try to recall the emotions that I felt that time--like I try to remember anything visceral if I'm ecstatic and write it into the scene.

I also just jump into my characters' heads and figure out from there. Often when I write, my scenes end up in a different direction from my intention because I often don't bother to rein in what my characters say or do (though I usually do them to jump from Point A to Point B). So while I'm in my POV character's head, I try to figure how they would respond to such a situation.

Because people act differently for the same emotion. There may be people who flush red and raise their voices when they're angry, people who become cold and distant.
And people can get emotional with different "triggers" so the emotional response, overall, will have different nuances, I suppose? I'm never even sure if you experience the exact same emotional response for different situations(though they still match to the main classifications such as anger, grief, and joy)

So anyway, basically, I would try to recall the emotions I had some time ago, and then channel them into my character. My characters will shift and mold them to fit themselves and then tumble out into the page. And then once I start rolling, it gets easier to elicit such emotions because, though I'm not completely feeling it, it rises high enough in my "subconscious" so I can tap in.

/end of ramble

First of all, you need to care about your characters. If you dont smile a little when you think about their quirks or behaviours, then you might not find your bothered when they're going through hell.

You don't have to feel every emotion that your character feels. You might empathize with them- that's normal for me. But you I don't think it's necessary to feel every emotion that they feel.

Though you're right, when I'm sad or irritated, it's difficult sometimes to stop thinking about what's going on in my head. If you're finding that happens a lot to you while writing, maybe try something like writing your feelings down before hand, even a few lines of poetry perhaps. Or maybe try writing a scene with your character, having them feeling and experiencing YOUR emotions- you don't have to include it in your story, it's just an exercise.

I hope you find this helpful! I'll keep in mind things about this.

And here I come in with the non-sequitur advice.

Have multiple projects with different emotional states on the go at any given time.

I have about... five projects, between original and fanfic, that I circulate between. Sometimes the "project" is more "timeline of a character's life so I can pick whatever and write a drabble about it." Other times I write non-sequentially because a later scene fits what I feel better (it's very rarely, but every once and awhile I will do it just to get the feelings worked through).

I don't change emotional states very easily. I'll refine a character's voice to help me fake it, because in essence I create the character so in-depth that their emotional states are as familiar as my own. But in the end, if one character is thrilled with some good news and I feel like getting out of bed is a chore, I'll work on another project where the character is closer to the whole "getting out of bed is a chore" thing.

Sometimes I will point blank invent a new story to better fit with my emotional state, which has produced a fairly extensive body of writing. Sometimes, under the different lenses of emotional states, I'll re-jig my plots because it feels like the events are going to go in a new direction, and that re-jig makes them closer to my current state (that's what editing is for, to get rid of those ups and downs).

For me, there's no need to fake it for the sake of only sticking with one project. Let the human emotions come out like poetry and write to go along with it, bouncing around as you want/need to. Nobody said you had to go against your grain to write prose.

For me, emotions come as a result of having written? If they get involved in the writing process at all. At least, I do not write with my emotions in the way described- as though your feelings in real time can be shaped or molded like clay to produce a work or taking (memories of a past event) to evoke an emotion so that you can ...I guess, know what is in the character's headspace? I do more of the second than the first thing. The first thing is really difficult for me, and I have so much respect to people who can do it!

I guess for me, most days I feel just on the brink of content and boredom. And then if I AM feeling happy, energetic, joyful-- I typically am NOT writing xD I'd be hiking or doing something that's actually fun social.

I do write when I am feeling down and depressed and upset. But when I end up writing is so focused on the specifics, and on me that it's mostly blogs, mostly rants. Just a way of carthasis and a way of organizing my thoughts. Then I can then take those organized thoughts and vent to my SO or BFF or mother. If I try to vent to them without organizing my own thoughts first, I come across as whiny. Boooo.

But writing fiction or writing on a day to day basis comes to me when I am content. Bored. Or tired. Or just default emotion. Maybe I AM feeling things but I can set it aside, I need to write. Emotions aren't really on the forefront.

So what do I do? What is on the forefront? Wonder! xD That's all it takes for me.

It is like picking up a book, or a movie -- you look at the trailer or blurb and go "hey! That looks interesting! I am bored. I need entertainment. Except instead of it being a trailer or blurb - it is a thought bunny...

It allows me to play pretend. Dude. It is like roleplaying with yourself. It is like storybook of one! You can look at it like that! (Although, if you're writing your storybook posts emotion-first - I guess that doesn't help. Hmm)

It is much, much more fulfilling than just consuming content of course. We all know that creating art of any kind is awesome. But for me what makes it awesome is that I get to decide everything. I get to build it. The act of it as a craft. Have you ever watched a movie, thought to yourself, well that movie is awesome. But it would have REALLY been more awesome if it did this instead. Also set in space. Also with more charismatic, larger than life characters.

OR for me, I just birth all these plot bunnies.

What if everytime we go to bed to sleep during REM sleep, unknowingly our souls leave our bodies and transfer to a different body. So our souls leave but our brains are what are holding the memories. Each soul just remembers whatever is in the memory of the brain. Our lives as a simulation. And the collective's souls constantly switching from body to body finding different stimuluses and becoming different selves.

I guess what makes it validating is not so much the catharsis of crafting the emotion so much as the catharsis of crafting the thought. Creating the world, the conflicts. The people in it. I can go on and on with the what-ifs, lol. I am a huge scifi/fantasy nerd so that works for me.

But even with general fiction. What is it like to be a tax collector with two left feet trying to give up his life to make it to America's next top reality star. And he goes and lives in his car. Or maybe not reality, maybe he goes globetrotting.


I guess what happens with me is that I wonder. I get curious. And as I delve deeper into trying to make the imagination REAL things you can sense and feel, I end up feeling the emotions that I evoked by having thought about them. This TRULY happens. I TRULY cry when I read a really moving scene, or see it play out in the movies. It happens less often in my head, but it happens and it is so AWESOME. But it comes as an effect. It is not the cause that leads to the writing.

This way of writing is just what I personally find easiest. I can very easily hear a story being told, (or tell a story out of nothing) and FEEL in those shoes. Like, I'll tell you what I am not good at--if somebody gives me a cube and tells me to turn it left, right, left in my head -I am not good at visualizing what the heck it's supposed to be. I cannot for the life of me see a map once, and then visualize the map in my head. I actually have to have the map in hand. I am horrible at spatial-anything.

But I am very good at empathy. Give me a dust-mite. I can become the dust mite. I find it harder to interpret real-Audrey emotions and write from reality. Like, I can't control my emotions but I can control my thoughts. I can control *whose* shoes I am going to be in, *how deep I go*, *to what extent*, *for how long*, like, imagination is awesome. And via my thoughts if I think a thing through long enough or deep enough, I can make myself cry. Or rage. Or giddy. It affects my emotions.

I think I am most similar to Nikayla and Lightsong in that sense that plot and character and ideas drive us. You can try it out, but if it is not working for you it may be best to just learn from the people who have learned to hack writing the "emotion-first" way, as each of these "methods" are just that - methods. And there's no better one. The reader in the end can't really tell what method one writer used, versus another. It's more, whatever comes easiest, whatever gets you writing! So it's cool that we have different methods we can steal from each other on occasion, try out what works!.

I tend to see emotion in writing as being /highly/ subjective, so this is most probably going to be a useless ramble + reiteration of everything that has already been said. [Though yes! I agree! Empathy is super-important and solves 80% of problems! I am not a statistician.] That being said, I find it really difficult to identify how much emotional output is coming from a project versus the amount of emotional investment that goes into it. Input =/= Output. You can care very deeply about something and not be able to put it into wordage. This happens.

There are things that I feel very deeply about--most of them don't even come from personal experience--and I have found that it is more difficult for me to write about events that affect me directly, on a daily basis, than it is to write about indirect events, or even internally-focussed perceptions of said events. I'm more comfortable with fiction than I am with poetry, because with fiction I know that the world I build and the characters driving it along can serve as representations for the ideas I hold, for the truths I believe in, and the truths I do not believe in. No, my characters are not based off of me. At least, not mostly. But they are based off my perceptions of how individuals of differing social strata, gender, sexual orientation and race exist in society, how they interact with it, with each other, and how society as a whole affects them. [It also reminds me that people should be free of generalisation, and writing people is something that I find very enjoyable--especially within characterisation.]

With fantasy, it's especially easy for me to play with themes and ideas--especially because I know that I can reflect real world ideals (or lack of ideals) into a world that doesn't exist, and where there is greater flexibility than with real world fiction. Because I care deeply about these ideas, I can pour a decent amount of emotion into the scene. So I think it's important to write about things that /are/ important to you? I don't think you have to fake emotion if you feel deeply enough toward everything.

That said, I think it's also really important to be able to put that emotion into a coherent shape. Which, quite honestly, is something I struggle to do, especially with poetry, because my poetry lacks structure and definition and is image-based. (I tend to think mostly in images, and go off of that, so.) Perhaps forcing yourself to write against your perceived emotional grain isn't necessarily a bad thing? Because writing against your emotional grain is also a representation of your ideas, or maybe an anti-thesis of your ideas to make a point, but it doesn't lessen the fact that you care enough about a topic to write about it, howsoever you go about writing it, whatever mood and atmosphere you render. It is yours. And while it's fun to experiment, writing always hits harder when it comes from a place that is home.

//apologies for how long this is, whoops.