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YA Realistic Fantasy World Building



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Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:55 pm
caitlynnoco says...



Hi, I'm currently in the plotting stage of a novel and hope to include an underground cave for two humans to discover together and keep secret. Caves have no light. Nothing grows without light. ..Except chemosynthetic bacteria. So let's say there is one part of the cave with a hole in the roof where light gets in. This is a cave with a river system. Bioluminescent bacteria spread throughout the water. There is a large room with an underground forest. Perhaps of mushrooms. So. How in the hell can I make stuff grow in there without making so many light holes that this cave is bound to be discovered by the rest of humanity? I'm willing to slip up on the practically idea of this a little bit, thought I do want it to be almost scientifically feasible to be believable.

*When I asked my biology teacher - who has a masters in chemistry - if an underground cave supported entirely by chemosynthetic bacteria was possible, he said it could be as long as there is a way for the gases to escape. Which makes sense..
oscar wilde.. that is all.
  





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Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:45 am
Kale says...



Well, the good news is that it's not true that nothing grows without light. There are multiple species that live and grow in deep cave systems where light never reaches, and that's not counting all the species that live in the deepest, darkest depths of the ocean.

Chemoautotrophs actually are the basis of life in deep hypogean (completely isolated cave) ecosystems, so you're not talking about a hypothetical scenario. I recommend looking up studies of hypogean ecosystems, and I bet you'll be able to find all sorts of associated ecosystems and species to model your own cave ecology off of.

I also recommend looking up troglofauna and stygofauna for examples of animal species that live in light-less environments. There's a lot of them, though most are unique to their specific cave environment. And considering that your cave also has access to the outdoors, it would probably have trogloxenes as well, which are animals species that live part-time in caves. This paper here will be of interest to you since it lists a whole bunch of North American species, as a starting point.

You'll also want to look more into biospeleology, which is the study of life in cave environments.

On a side note, chemists aren't the best authorities on biological topics. ;P They're very different branches of science, even though they often work together/reference each other.
Secretly a Kyllorac, sometimes a Murtle.
There are no chickens in Hyrule.
Princessence: A LMS Project
WRFF | KotGR
  





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Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:28 am
caitlynnoco says...



Thank you so much for all the specific titles for me to look up. I will definitely include that in my detailed research. However, while there are things that live and visit in lightless areas, it's not very common for more complex creatures to live in them. That's why I want to include some kind of light source to open up my options some. I want colorful fish, stingrays, some kind of tree or giant mushroom, and perhaps a small animal or two. This area needs to seem exciting and full of life. Somehow..
oscar wilde.. that is all.
  





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Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:37 am
Kale says...



That depends on what you mean by "complex". There are a lot of species of fish and invertebrates which live in deep cave systems without any light exposure, and they are biologically complex. They all have very specific (and often unique) adaptations to living without light, and there are some really interesting body configurations and such.

What you seem to be aiming for is flashy, though if you incorporated bioluminescence, that would open up more options. Just be aware that bioluminescence is very energy-expensive, so there needs to be a good reason for the bioluminescence to be present.

In any case, the terms I recommended encompass all sorts of different cave environments. Hypogean systems can be close to the surface with limited access to it, and there are also various other cave configurations with surface access. The terms I suggested are a starting point for more research in general, and what you learn from the preliminary research into those terms will help you narrow down what to look for more specifically for your cave environment.
Secretly a Kyllorac, sometimes a Murtle.
There are no chickens in Hyrule.
Princessence: A LMS Project
WRFF | KotGR
  





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Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:38 am
caitlynnoco says...



Flashy. Yes. Exactly the word I'm looking for. I'm thinking I'm definitely leaning towards using bioluminescence to add to the appeal of the environment, but to my understanding, the energy used in bioluminescence is absorbed from another light source. It's also mostly temporary (lightning bugs, bacteria.) Although, what kind of reason would there be to have bioluminescence in a cave? Of course it's dark, but why would anything need to see if it's used to such a lifestyle, other than for my protagonist to visit and be entranced by?
As for complex, I mean beyond simple organisms. Starting with bacteria, moving up to fish, larger fish, and maybe even small animals like rabbits, rats, or something that flies that can eat the fish. And bugs, of course.
And thank you again for the research starters for cave systems. I will definitely be putting it on my to-do list for the next few days.
oscar wilde.. that is all.
  





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Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:06 am
Kale says...



Bioluminescence doesn't require an independent light source and is chemically-generated by a number of organisms. One of the most well-studied is the angler fish, which uses bioluminescence to lure prey in the depths of the ocean where light does not normally reach.

Other deep-sea creatures also use bioluminescence for communication (squid are notable for this) and protection purposes (such as dazing and confusing predators with wild displays of light - which squid are also notable for doing).

Invertebrates and vertebrates are considered to be complex. Simple organisms would be along the lines of amoeba, hydra, and other small, single- or multi-cellular organisms. There are varying levels of complexity found between groupings of animals, such as tunicates being relatively simple in contrast to vertebrates, with both groups being chordates.

If you're looking for a more complex ecosystem, cave ecosystems are quite complex in general, though not necessarily diverse. If diversity is what you're aiming for (which is what it looks like), a cave ecosystem really isn't the best choice.
Secretly a Kyllorac, sometimes a Murtle.
There are no chickens in Hyrule.
Princessence: A LMS Project
WRFF | KotGR
  








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