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Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:24 am
PRANC1NGJ35T3R says...



*This may contain references to past discussions .e.g. 'Fantasy Writing' & 'Magic Systems'.
My villain, to be referred to as 'Jinx' for now, is a nihilist within the late teens. He believes that all life contains suffering, his solution is to end everything but in a 'blaze of glory' sort of style. Given his age (likely between 16-19) 'Jinx' despite his goal is mischievous and boastful, I'm thinking to represent such boastfulness he should wear very little armor if any (will probably wear an unusual cloak that will act as additional limbs, which he will discard when things do turn serious) and wears the crown of a defeated ruler as a belt to insult his memory.
I'm also thinking about through the use of one of my proposed magic systems (see relevant post) that 'Jinx' should manipulate the blood of fallen enemies for both defensive and offensive capabilities, the following is a list of some of the ways he could use blood as a weapon:
1) Creating Platforms
2) Using the iron within blood to form weapons
3) Forcing blood into a victim's body, before boiling.
4) I have an idea for a scene when 'Jinx' is captured, but of course makes a grand escape/takes over the fortress by using blood he had smuggled within his mouth to form a 'bubble' as if it was gum to suffocate those guarding his cell.
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:16 pm
birk says...



Reading through your previous posts concerning 'Fantasy Writing' and 'Magic Systems', I'm struggling to understand what kind of world you are trying to create here. Is this an older society with magic, swords and fantastical elements, or is it a modern world where all these things are happening? Because even though I'm leaning towards the former, it could be either of them. You mention a lot of fantasy elements, like these powers and kings, for instance. Yet, with the way you present this character, I kind of got a 'Tetsuo' feeling to him for some reason. Youthful character wanting to create chaos and all.

Key to creating characters, motives and plots, is the setting. Worldbuilding. It makes everything easier, both when writing and with giving good feedback to your writing.

I know very little of this 'Jinx/The Outsider' character of yours. I somewhat know his motives, though I'd want a lot more, and I'm unsure of how exactly he landed these motives and his conclusions. He's sort of one-dimensional. But again, this is just your presentation of him. I'm sure he'll grow in your writing.

Anyhow, on to a few of the things you brought up in this post.

This blood power sounds cool. It's definitely been used in a lot of other things, for instance 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' to use an example, but that doesn't stop it from being interesting and cool.

However, he can only use the blood of fallen enemies? Blood starts to congeal pretty fast upon death. Meaning it goes from liquid to solid state. The idea of using someone's blood is already pretty grotesgue, but this would take it to a whole new level.

What's stopping him from using the blood of anyone? Alive or dead.

This would make him more powerful, and it would be an easier tool for going through some of what you included in your list. As in, instead of smuggling in blood into his cell, via his mouth (?), he could simple use the blood of the guards.

Same thing with the blood boiling. Instead of forcing some dead person's blood into another person, to then use it to boil; just use the person's blood.

Tbh, I find your posts a little confusing, and I'm unsure how you're wanting to write this. Or how you want feedback to it.

Anyway, just a few thoughts I had as I read through this. Maybe it'll help you in some way.
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:24 pm
PRANC1NGJ35T3R says...



I've got more notes regarding the world this is set, Tironde (should be medieval-esque), and whilst they are incomplete I don't want to disclose too much as I don't want anyone using my material (apologies its just how I am for the most part in regards to my ideas). There's also the issue that my most developed concept has a lot of conditions that would have to be met.
* The idea of blood being used as a weapon came to me when I watched magneto's break out in X-Men 2, how he used the iron in blood to rip his guard apart from the inside. And being kind of perverse I just kept coming up with ideas of how else blood could be used with the most creative ideas being blood hardening to form platforms (as you said congealing) and burning the oxygen within someone's blood to turn them into a walking bio-bomb (what I described as 'boiling'). I've decided on a combination of my previous ideas of magic systems to help explain his ability, to be adapted to the use of a particular magic you must draw a rune upon your skin and the use of magic consumes part of a non-renewable resource much like oil (knowledge of some of the more powerful runes would have to be developed or were kept hidden, I'm thinking of some sort of system within Tironde's society that assigns a certain rune to an individual based on contribution to society and 'Jinx' only has it as he along with several others were raised to potentially lead humanity). I don't want 'Jinx' to be OP, so I've said he can only use the blood of those he killed why exactly them specifically I don't know but am open to suggestions.
* And I know details seem confusing, but the concept is to be refined (.e.g the crown belt - I just thought it could be a way to represent the antagonist's character, didn't consider who was the original owner or the ramifications of the crown being taken).
Thanks for feedback so far (for future reference with feedback I really just need an opinion with any ideas I come up with and how I can connect these with previous ones).
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:42 pm
PRANC1NGJ35T3R says...



Almost forgot to mention another thing that has been bugging me and that is if I should include other races than just humans? I have to head off now so I'll just outline 2 of them:
1) The proud race of water nymphs, negative history with humans (expect them to behave similar to cryptid known as a 'kappa', but taller and somewhat comparable to elves of LOTR), thinking that they either disagree with some human practices (the rune system) or some major event set them as hating humans but not to the point they will attack without good reason (perhaps base them like a race known as 'Djin', from Islamic text (sorry for misspelling) who were created by Allah along with humans but would not acknowledge them as equals). Despite their attitude towards humans they wish for no unnecessary conflict and are more than willing to help others.
2) The gremlins are a neutral party. Normally subterranean they live as scavengers in caves, they receive little aid from the surface (they are to be used to show those of 3rd world countries are cruelly exploited) and this can turn some bitter. Some choose to leave their home caves in search of work and whilst they have hard lives, they are satisfied by their work (Gremlins are incredibly intelligent they normally seek out work as blacksmiths, toy-makers or chemists). Most however, those who remained underground. choose to side with 'Jinx' as it provides a means of building what they perceive as a better world (I'm thinking that the Gremlins are treated quite nicely by 'Jinx' as he relates to their kind in some respects, whilst he plans to destroy everything this is in the long-term and Gremlins are perfectly happy with that as long as they are given the opportunity of a meaningful life... and there's also the idea that their female leader is smitten with 'Jinx' akin to Harley Quinn).
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:25 pm
Tenyo says...



Were you thinking of blood purely as that red stuff in your veins or more scientific properties? You could change the white blood cells or multiply them so that someone who recieves a 'random blood transfusion' could actually be killed by it's immuno properties.

Or on that, blood carries disease. Could you transfer the disease or turn it into poison? Tiny pellets of poisoned blood that he can control at will would be pretty dark.
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Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:39 pm
PRANC1NGJ35T3R says...



Responding to Tenyo - When 'Jinx' uses his abilities to manipulate blood he normally just shapes what you referred to as 'the red stuff', although he can find more creative ways of dealing with enemies by utilizing its properties he usually goes for the kill rather than just poisoning someone.
BTW just continuing on with my prior topic should I include more than one race and should I reduce the magic system a bit as a friend thought I may be going a bit overboard with the system (the problem he highlighted being that any rune not originally designed by the world's creator can be assigned a purpose through someone's imagination and this could be considered a taboo by the predominant religion, however it could leave too large a window but I can't think of other ways for Jinx to create an original rune).
Also if anyone thinks I should include the races of water nymphs and gremlins alongside humans within my story, I'd like to share a concept I have for a minor antagonist to work with Jinx.
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Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:35 pm
birk says...



Your magic system seems very confusing. If I were trying to write this, I would definitely scale it down a bit, just so my head could more easily wrap around it. Writing stories is hard enough without trying to create this elaborate world.

More races! Yay! That's always fun. Go for it. Water nymphs and Gremlins seem quite random, but Gremlins do sound interesting, if not scary.

I like how you appear to link religion and magic together somewhat. I'd be interested in more on that.
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Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:16 pm
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Vervain says...



An important thing to remember when talking about magic systems, villains, and races is that your world is populated by people. Maybe people and sapient races of multiple species, but at the same time, people will rarely ever make things more difficult for themselves if they don't have to.

A lot of this stuff can sound really cool on paper, but what would happen if this was, in fact, a real world? Many of the seemingly-arbitrary rules and guidelines around your magic system as it is now would likely lead to its collapse. Why would people use magic at all outside of extreme emergencies? Why wouldn't they develop technologically so they didn't need to use magic at all? (Which could lead to an interesting conflict, as underground magic develops alongside industrialism, until there are a few holes in the industrial system and magic moves in again -- but that's up to you, of course.)

The thing is, it's complicated. And people don't generally like doing complicated things if they don't have to and/or they don't find it interesting. This could be a way to severely limit the number of magic-users in this world, if you thought it out well and backed it up with evidence in-world, but as it's reading right now, it looks... well, complex for the sake of complexity.

Of course, this raises a question: When will people willingly do complicated things? And of course, the answer depends on the person.

Some people will do complicated and difficult things for the sake of safety (setting an incredibly complex password on their computer/phone; keeping multiple locks on their doors and windows; preparing a survival bunker in the middle of nowhere).

Some people will do complicated and difficult things when they find them an entertaining challenge (playing sudoku; playing chess competitively; survival prepping because they find the strategy fun).

Some people will do complicated and difficult things because it's their job, or because no one else is certified or going to do it (military tactics; nursing in the ICU; various strenuous jobs worldwide).

Of course, there's more, and there's overlap between all of these, but it's up to you to figure out which applies to your magic-users, and how, that they would willingly go through the complexity -- and pay a price -- to use magic like you have it set up. Without having that reason on the board, it looks to me (as the casual reader and the analyst) that the people in your world are more chess pieces than dynamic forces.

Pardon my tangent. Let's make that a tl;dr: I'd recommend slimming down the magic system a bit and figuring out why magic is still in use if it's so complex; without constant evolution and new discoveries, it would quickly be outpaced by technological development, unless we're talking about the European Dark Ages. (And even during the European Dark Ages, there were plenty of places in the world—the Islamic world and China in particular—that were having societal booms of knowledge.)
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Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:09 am
PRANC1NGJ35T3R says...



Ok, how about this as a re-thinking of the magic system.
There are a variety of runes existing in the world, each one is the name of the world's goddess (in Islam, Allah goes by a multitude of different names/titles), and of course each one has a different ability. Whilst it is possible to create original runes, it can prove quite difficult as the world's predominant religion (which despite being in decline) sees it as a taboo and there is also the matter of trying to assign the rune a usage. These runes have to be drawn on the surface of the skin as it supposedly enhances the skin's natural ability of interacting with the works of the goddess and the 'fuel' could be stars (whether someone decides to establish an industry surrounding this is undecided) and the overuse of magic could seer the skin.
Apologies if this is confusing, but I'm trying to come up with an original magic system and this was the best I could come up with and whilst I've tried trimming it down I can't seem to see where exactly (currently it seems to be a lot like AVATAR and Fullmetal Alchemist and I'm trying to avoid this but really struggling). If anyone can tell me what details I should exclude or any alternative ways to work with anything I've already mentioned please do not hesitate to speak, but know I want it to meet this basic criteria:
1) It has to be constrained in usage... but remain central to the world.
2) It has to be somewhat easy to understand.
3) Whilst I have vague ideas of scenes which are a bit heavy in action, I don't want magic to subvert other things such as characters and themes in the novel (I don't want my novel to be 'cinematic' if you know what I mean).
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Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:45 am
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Rosendorn says...



I get the impression you're pulling from Islam for this magic system? Before you keep going on this path, if you are indeed going on it, I have a question: are you aware Islam has a very large magic taboo? As in, Muslims are forbidden from practicing it? It's associated with the devil and every single resource I've read regarding Islam and magic is "do not do it and do not make magic even come close to being associated with Islam".

It would be terrible misrepresentation to have Islam be the root religion for a magic system. When a culture is so set against something on principle, you have to be excruciatingly careful and there is, honestly, no amount of research that can make it acceptable. Check out these two tags for posts detailing Islam and magic. You'll have to dig a little to get them, but the general gist is "don't." Even the moderators who are Muslim express hesitation at writing magic-wielding Muslim characters, and they were raised in the culture.

I'm not trying to curb your creativity; I'm telling you what you need to do in order to be respectful towards the cultures you are pulling from. Representation is important, yes, but you cannot simply cherry pick from cultures without understanding what exactly you are pulling from. Bad representation can, in some cases, be worse than no representation at all. And if you use a religion that has a very strong taboo against magic as a basic for a magic system, you run a basically guaranteed risk of bad representation.

It does not help that you seem to be simply taking Allah's names and assigning it to an arbitrary set of mythology (goddesses, plural, when Islam is a monotheistic religion), and are using runes (which imply European worldbuilding) instead of Arabic writing. It's really showing ignorance around the religion and is misrepresentation at best.

As for your line about "I want an original magic system", I'm going to be blunt with you.

Your quest for originality will damage your writing more than improve it.

It will turn your writing overly complex, unrelatable, hamstrung by inconsistency, stuffy, and in the end you will still fail at making an original work. Somebody else will have still used those conventions before you, and probably done it better.

What makes a story original is the fact you are writing it and there is only one person with your exact voice, your exact take on the world. Whenever you see works praised as "original", usually the word "voice" is next to it. This is because original works are basically impossible to come across, and, honestly, you develop originality by not actively seeking originality.

Sound like a brain breaker? Let me explain.

Dealing with the common, the cliche, the standard? That's where all writers start. However, because each writer's voice is original, they think of the conventions differently. They end up putting it in a different setting, with different characters, and they keep adding their own unique perspective. And because they are not obsessed with making something original, they simply focus on writing the story. They have far more brainpower for focusing on the important things— plot and characters— than they would have if they stopped every sentence and went "is this original?"

They keep trudging along and making it up as they go, writing a story they enjoy and thinking about what would logically happen next. And the end result? Is the most original thing on the planet. Not because it actively went out to be, but because the writer put their voice and their soul on the paper and that soul is original. They put together a bunch of things that have been done before but they put it together in their own way, and it became original as a result.

Stop focusing on originality. Focus on writing a story you want to tell. Throw out your preconceived notions of what a story is supposed to look like, come up with a general idea you want to write out, that sounds interesting, and write it how you want instead of how other people tell you to write.

Only then will you actually be original.
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Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:55 am
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Kale says...



I feel compelled to point out that the system you have going and the system of alchemy in FMA are completely different.

The alchemy in FMA is actually a really great example of a fundamentally simple and inherently limited system whose different applications add layers of complexity. All varieties of alchemy in FMA come down to three basic steps (comprehension, deconstruction, and reconstruction) with one constant: The Law of Equivalent Exchange, which is a result of the fundamental principle that nothing can be truly created OR destroyed.

Even though alchemists are capable of changing the form of something on a chemical level, they still require the fundamental elements. Basically the component chemicals need to be present in order for successful transmutation to take place.

The transmutation circles (which is what you seem to have latched onto as the defining trait of the system) act as both a channel and a point of focus for the energies involved in the transmutation process, and it's worth nothing that they're implied to be entirely symbolic (otherwise there would be no alchemists, like Ed, capable of transmutation without circles).

Basically, the transmutation circles and all of their associated symbols are trappings of the system.

I'm not sure which Avatar you're referring to, but if it was Avatar: The Last Airbender, then the only commonalities that bending and alchemy have are that both systems involve channeling the energy from a metaphysical connection into physical results, and that results are limited by what is currently available in the immediate environment. Outside of that, alchemy and bending have completely different limitations and fundamental principles regarding their uses, without even going into the specifics of how the energy is channeled.

With all of that said, tattoos having mystical properties is a very old idea, and there are many cultures that have practiced tattooing because of the belief that tattoos possess mystical properties. If you were hoping that the runes-as-tattoos idea was original, I'm afraid you're out of luck.

As I said in another post in one of your other threads, very little is truly original since almost everything has been done before. What really matters is how you use these unoriginal ideas and recombine them into something unique.

Right now, what you have isn't original (and it's not very constrained considering that pretty much anyone can just make up their own runes, taboo aside), but originality doesn't matter. Your execution is what will determine whether your system feels original, like how FMA's alchemy feels unique even though it's basically chemistry.
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Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:30 am
PRANC1NGJ35T3R says...



To Rosendorm - Whilst some ideas towards this system I did pick up from Islam, I have no intention for religion (from the actual world at least) to be involved with my novel. However I still appreciate the fact that you mentioned something that could be seen as controversial... I do not exactly want to make any enemies.
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Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:22 pm
Rosendorn says...



If you have taken some things from Islam, then you absolutely have to make sure it comes from an obviously different source and the religion isn't traceable back to Islam. If it looks like Islam even in semblance, you've done nothing but create a caricature of the religion by picking whatever elements suit you and discarding the rest.

Religious traditions come from somewhere, and usually they grow in tandem with other customs plus the environment. So if you're not careful, you could end up with the misrepresentation I warned about in the first post.

If you want to avoid it, you have to actively come up with in-world justification for those trappings to exist that distance them from Islam. Religions do many of the same rituals but have different reasons for them, but unless you put in the work to make sure that what you've taken is obviously related to something else, maybe with its own twists to really drive the point home, then you're simply taking without consideration.
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Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:07 pm
PRANC1NGJ35T3R says...



OK, it's been a while since my last post. So I'm just briefly going to talk about my existing characters for a fantasy novel (I know I should have a whole party by now but fleshing something out is both time-consuming and is not an immediate thought process). *Apologies that some stuff may be a little bit confusing as I haven't posted everything online so if anything confuses you (.e.g. magic system and/or race background) feel free to ask and I'll try to explain to the best of my ability.

Lulu Zayne. A servant of Jinx that leads a horde of gremlins into war against the other races in Tironde. Lulu was the youngest 'pup' of 23 born under the Zayne household; Gremlin society is rather chaotic (after decimation caused by conflict between nymphs and humans) most compete and squabble over resources and the Zaynes' reign on top not as a royal family but something along the lines of the mafia. Lulu became infatuated with the main antagonist after he, unintentionally, set off a chain of events that allowed her to inherit her father's title by killing off her competition (the other 22 siblings). Like most gremlins, Lulu grew to hate both men and nymphs alike for their prosperity and how they exploit them on a regular basis, so she revels in their suffering. Lulu believes gremlins to be superior to humans although in truth she envies humans, for both their perseverence and mutually beneficial relationships between each other.

Jinx (Prototype name). The main antagonist of the series. Jinx was created by an unknown party to potentially lead humanity in the future. He was constructed from the gentic material of people believed to carry admirable traits; Jinx is handsome, intelligent and charismatic. Jinx could be described as either the party's greatest triumph or failure as there was a slight issue, Jinx was a nihilist. During the early stages of candidacy he experienced human experimentation and the grim fates of those who failed as candidates (recycling). Jinx could see no meaning to life and his fury made him reject the religion forced down his throat along with his human origins. Jinx follows a philosphy that within all life suffering is contained, therefore to destroy suffering one must destroy life and for one to do that they must covet the powers of so-called gods. Jinx is particularly skilled in his use of blood magic to invent ways of dispatching of enemies and scaling large structures.

Turk Whitlock (Concept for protagonist depending if a corporation is included in the story or not). Turk was the son of the founder of a powerful, definitely 'not' corrupt, company responsible for the distribution of sap (a non-renewable fuel used in industry and magic). When Turk's father passed on he of course inherited a grand fortune during his teens, however he gave up that money and successfully amassed himself his own riches in order to make a name for himself (being a bit egotisitical). Turk is similar to Jinx, although he has led a life he cannot complain about as he has not experienced suffering firsthand he has witnessed it but believes there to be a different root to all man-made suffering, the invention of money and he admits he is somewhat greedy because of it but this also means he is afraid to let go (he will not allow friends to die on his watch as he doesn't like it when people takes what is his).
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