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How do i master grammar?



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Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:25 am
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dhyan says...



I'm usually confused of what to do when it comes to learning English. Its my mother tounge so i know how to speak it, read it and write it. I have a Grammar book titled "Wren and Martin Grammar Book". I understand it but don't know how to put it into practice because i already know how to write to some extent so i unconsciously start writing without thinking about grammar.

How should i practice it? Should i be reading books any analyzing each sentence breaking it apart? Looking at each sentence and identifying the tense of it, the type of question and all other parts of speech?
Last edited by dhyan on Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:50 am
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windrattlestheblinds says...



practice, practice, practice. reading the works of other writers and breaking down sentences to see how they're put together is a useful exercise, but you should scrutinize your own writing, too. the best way to learn, in my experience, is to make mistakes, understand them, and then fix them.

if you have trouble reading your own works and catching grammar mistakes, take a pencil or a pen and place a dot under each word as you read it, going as slowly as you can. that forces you to look at every single word instead of skimming, so you're more likely to catch mistakes. getting someone to read over your writing and copyedit for you so you can correct your mistakes will also help!

another useful resource for copyediting is edit minion. it won't catch grammar or sentence formation mistakes, but it will highlight things like common misspellings or homonyms, sentences that end with prepositions, stuff like that. (also, adverbs, which is great if you're a writer who tends to abuse them).

also, judging from this post—your grammar isn't all that bad. i understood everything you were saying, and a lot of the errors were clearly just typos ("any" instead of "and," for example). from the sound of it, your biggest problem is you start writing fast and your grammar starts to slip. if you take the time to consciously slow yourself down as you write, your grammar will most likely improve. then, as you get more comfortable with the rules, you can work back up to speed again. think of it like training for a marathon. you've got to build up to it gradually.

really, though, all you need is time, patience, and lots of practice. you'll get better the more you work at it.
Last edited by windrattlestheblinds on Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  





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Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:29 pm
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Pompadour says...



Image

It's a constant struggle, if you've never had formal lessons at school--like moi, because apparently knowing how to use semi-colons properly ain't important--and the only way you can really learn is to write write write. I'd suggest looking through various sites on the internet, though, if you want to work on your grammar. I've found https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/section/1/5/ to be useful. It's always best to start at a basic level, which is sentence structure. It helps if you dissect your own writing as well, and search for the errors you find in other people's writing in your own.

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Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:35 pm
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Rosendorn says...



I'd start off with the grammar of your title. I have no idea what you mean by it. Do you mean "when" or "how" instead of "what"?

You basically have to slow down and not forget grammar when you sit down to write. If you do want to get completely lost in words then sit down to write, then you have to acknowledge that you'll need to go over your own writing with a fine toothed comb after.

Now, everybody gets in moods where they sit down and forget what grammar is. See: a writer's work three hours after bedtime. The thing is they usually realize their grammar is going to be terrible and proceed to proofread after. If you can't spot your own mistakes at this stage, there are two possibilities:

1- You're reading from short term memory therefore can't see mistakes
2- You do not know you've made mistakes and things you've read look right

The solution for issue 1 is to take a break. Reading from short term memory is something everybody does, which is basically why you can't proofread what you've just written and you shouldn't cram writing a paper into the night before (not like that it stops people from doing it). It's also why other people will catch more errors than you— they don't have an idea what you meant to write, so they just see the words as they are.

The solution for issue 2 is learning more about what proper grammar looks like and doesn't. This could involve putting your work on YWS and taking all grammar corrections that come your way, reading more books about grammar, reading more of every genre imaginable, and dissecting everything you write with all that in mind.
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Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:49 pm
dhyan says...



Thanks for the techniques and opinions. I'll try everything. Rosey, Have you given the first two lines as an example? If not, then i don't understand, have i made a mistake :$?

What i notice is that my phrasing is very limited. Some thoughts, i cant express and others, i can't re-express i.e.express in another way. Sometimes i realize that every sentence structure of mine is the same and that, i don't know how to transform it and keep the same meaning.

Basically i can allocate two hours to study English in any way, but i'm confused of where to start. I find it difficult to express myself because of my limited knowledge of English. I only write in the way i know, but i don't know every way. And that is what i want to learn.
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Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:34 pm
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Rosendorn says...



Yes, I do mean that you've made a mistake. "What do I master grammar" makes no technical sense. I'm asking what you meant, and if "what" is supposed to be a different word, such as "when" or "how". (Which would make the sentences "when do I master grammar", asking about the timeline for mastering grammar, an "how do I master grammar", which is asking for techniques on how to study grammar)

In your case, I would suggest starting with different types of sentence structure. I would also suggest more grammar books. Strunk and White is a particularly well-loved book, and the link is to a free copy. There's also a series I was particularly in love with, the "painless" series. Painless Grammar and Painless Writing are the two I own.

The rest? Read, read, read. Read everything you can get your hands on. Read at all levels, from start-readers to classic novels. Read about what words mean and what sentences mean and about language.

You can't get better always doing the same thing. If you don't read a variety of things, then that explains a lot of your difficulty saying things multiple ways. You can't learn English with one grammar book. I'm still learning English after I've read five grammar books and countless articles.
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  





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Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:51 am
dhyan says...



Oh, how stupid of me. I mean't "how", just wasn't aware enough to spot the mistake. Thanks.

Wow, so one grammar book isn't enough? Ok, i'll download the free copy of Strunk and white. And will try to get my hands on the grammar books that you own and see if they work for me.

Do you think reading post on this website can be an alternative to reading things of different genres? Or even the poems and stories of different topics with their remarks?
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Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:36 am
Rosendorn says...



Okay, if you're not spotting whole different words used, then you need to slow right down, read every single word, and double check for mistakes very carefully. Remember what I said about short term memory reading? Watch out for that. Read things backwards if you have to. Then you're looking at every single word.

One grammar book is nowhere near enough. Grammar is highly inconsistent, different people use different rules, and while some punctuation marks are pretty hard and fast (such as when to use a semicolon), the ideas about syntax, appropriate word use, sentence structure, and various other little things about grammar vary a lot. You also have books like Checkmate, which was a university textbook of mine. I also read multiple linguistics articles and attended several classes. Some people swear by Eats, Shoots & Leaves, as well.

This is why the image "one does not simply master grammar" is highly appropriate. Gramarians exist. These are people whose jobs is exclusively to study grammar. They routinely get into arguments about what the proper word use is. If experts in the field don't agree, don't expect one grammar book to be enough.

And, no, reading posts on YWS does not make up for reading wildly in as many genres as possible. It counts as reading, certainly, but it doesn't make up for reading published stories. Published stories have one advantage: they've been copyedited and proofread by multiple people. There's a very high chance they have under 5 mistakes in the whole thing. Then you can get a sense for correct grammar. Some novels are absolutely famous for their grammar errors, but those are usually few and far between.

You can also learn different syntaxes from different genres. Horror writers write one way, detective mysteries differently, romance writers are separate, fantasy writers tend to write bricks, academic science writers are their own breed, you get the drift. Similarly, syntax changes based on age of the story. The younger the target audience, the more simply it'll be written, and oftentimes the older the story in terms of publishing date, the more complex it'll be written.

Story variety is just as important as story quantity, and if you don't spend extensive amount of time with an extensive variety of words, you'll always be stuck in the rut of "I only know one way to say this".
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  








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