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Victorian England



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Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:52 pm
Stori says...



I started a novel one day, only to realize something. I know very little about the living conditions of the poor and middle classes in Victorian England.

A bit of background: Edward, also called Edge, is a widower and father of two. He leads a fairly ordinary life until he happens to rescue the princess of the realm from street toughs.

I don't want it to be completely accurate (when are novels ever?) but would definitely like to know the rules before breaking them. Also, as Edge is a motorcar mechanic, any information about cars in historical times would be appreciated. (When were they invented- i.e. is "Victorian" the wrong era? How did they work? etc.)

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:47 pm
Rosendorn says...



The Victorian era is indeed the wrong era; it ended seven years before the Model T was introduced. (Victorian Era ended in 1901, the Model T was invented in 1908. Also, the Edwardian Era, which followed the Victorian, goes from 1901 to either 1910 or 1914). Cars didn't really become affordable until the Model T, and it could have still taken awhile for them to gain traction enough for auto mechanics to be a steady job.

Middle class is probably very new, very tricky, and not what we think of. Marxism was being conceived at the time, and Marxism was built on the grounds that there were the extremely wealthy and the extremely poor. England has a far more rigid class system than in the US, so the social structure is probably different from what we think of.

You're very likely looking at pre-war or wartime England, if you go just by the job. This is during the reign of George V. I am not sure he had any daughters, so you're unlikely to have a true princess, but you could have some other nobility because there are lots of nobles exist in England.

That's just my rough, knows next to nothing about 1900s history knowledge. Hopefully that's a good enough starting point.
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Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:51 pm
Stori says...



Thank you, Rosey; they don't pay you enough.

Since I've already gone so far as to use anthropomorphic cats in the story, perhaps an alternate time line isn't out of the question... or, like you said, she could be a different member of the nobility.
  





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Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:15 pm
Rosendorn says...



England has a ton of nobility between all the dukes and lords and barons and various other titles I forget, spread all over England. They'd be either poor themselves living in a big palace (if they stopped getting tax revenue or blew all their money), or they could have kept their wealth either by marrying somebody rich through other means than old money (so many merchants and factory owners, not to mention actors/actresses were getting snapped up by nobility who wanted their money and they wanted a fancy title) or they actually managed their funds well.

Also child labour laws that kept kids away from working young didn't exist. Children as young as three could be put to work in dangerous jobs that required small bodies. Compulsory education was far less than it is now, and by the time your story is set, you'll have children required to be in school from age 5 till between 12 and 14. However, ways to circumvent the system did exist, so the children could still be working, especially if they couldn't afford any school materials.
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Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:04 am
Stori says...



What did you mean, the Edwardian era ended in 1910 or 1914?
  





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Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:51 am
Rosendorn says...



Depends on which historian you're talking to, honestly. Some peg the Edwardian Era as ending with Edward's death in 1910, while others extend it to the start of WWI, therefore till 1914.

Either way, because Edward died in 1910, if you're dealing with prewar England or wartime England the ruler is George V.
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Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:30 pm
Stori says...



Thanks again. And to anyone else reading this thread- I welcome any input on topics such as how the common man in those days spoke, what his house was like, and so on.
  





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Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:15 pm
Rosendorn says...



England's accent is very, very regionalized, so it'll basically be impossible to give any information on how he'll speak without knowing the exact area he's from. If in London, then it might need to go right down to neighbourhood because London is so big and has so much linguistic variety from area to area.
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Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  





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Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:38 pm
Stori says...



I begin to see the complexity involved here...

I've never been to Britain, only read fiction by British authors. I'll probably have to study a map of the country and have a native instruct me as to what's what, or where.

One thing that would be helpful is some idea of how widespread cars were in that era, so I don't do something stupid like place my mechanic in a rural area where he'd not see a car, never mind repair one.
  





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Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:27 pm
Rosendorn says...



This should help with that.
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Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:02 am
TakeThatYouFiend says...



^^what she said :-)
This seems rather steampunkish to me...
You know that studded leather armour in films? Nobody wore that. I mean, how would metal studs improve leather armour?
  





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Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:13 am
ExOmelas says...



His living conditions depend very on much whether he is living rurally or urban-ly. In urban housing from pretty much the mid 19th century to about the 1920s and 30s, there was mass overcrowding in the cities due to the industrial revolution. People often slept in a single room apartment with up to ten other family members. There was usually only one bed so lots of children ended up sleeping on the floor. It was very damp and that caused much typhoid. Poor ventilation led to tuberculosis and the fact that the toilets were close to the water supply caused many outbreaks of cholera.

If he is living rurally, he's likely to have a very small house with a circular thatched roof. He won't have a floor and the soot from the fire will just end up getting clogged in the thatch roof because he won't have a chimney.

That's all I remember from Standard Grade History.


However in Higher we learnt that in 1906 the Liberals introduced reforms to improve the living situations of the poor. The problem of poor housing was not really fixed until the late 1940s after the war when the Labour government introduced further reforms to tackle the problems of Disease, Housing, Poverty, Education and Unemployment.

Hope that helps :)

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Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:19 pm
Oriella says...



For words and phrases I'd recommend Putnam's Phrase Book.I know he wrote one for words and phrases of 1919, but I thought he also had something written for earlier in the 20th century. I don't know if you feel it's still not old enough, but as someone who has the phrase book I can say that it sounds very similar to the way we speak now.

Hope that helps! (can't give examples at this time since I broke my laptop)
  








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