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Blind River DT



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Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:13 am
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Griffinkeeper says...



I found the description on how to go about combat to be rather confusing. Here's how I approached it.

Spoiler! :
My golden rule: if you're uncertain how to proceed, follow the story.

1. Determine who is attacking first. There is currently no official way to go about this. The golden rule is applied. If the group is ambushed, the advantage goes to the enemy. If the group identifies the enemy at distance, then the heros have advantage.

2. Determine whether the defender will dodge or defend. This requires a look at the stats. If the defender has an advantage over the attacker in speed, then he should choose to dodge. This would give him a 50% chance of avoiding the attack (vs. a 10% chance if he tried defending.) If the defender has a higher defense than the attack of the attacker, then he will probably prefer defending to dodging, since it gives him a 50% of being successful. If the attacker is both faster and stronger than the defender, then I would pick one at random using the D2.

3. Calculate damage done. This is Attack*(100%-Defense%) If the defender has a defense of ten, then it is (100%-10%)=90%.

4. Repeat until finished.


There were also a couple of suggestions that I have, for combat. Here they are so that they may be considered.

Spoiler! :
One of the traits that was missing in combat was accuracy. My first three suggestions deal with this trait.

1. If an attacker hits their target, roll a d100. If the value of the roll is greater than (100%-Attacker Accuracy%), then the attacker deal double the damage they would ordinarily.

2. When a defender chooses to defend against an attack, roll a d100. If the value rolled is less than 50%+Defense%-Attacker Accuracy%, then the attack misses. (This replaces rolling a d2 and allows players with high defense to succeed in defense more often, unless they are up against a highly accurate opponent.)

3. When a defender chooses to dodge an attack, roll a d100. If the value rolled is less than 50%+Speed% - Attacker Accuracy%, then the dodge is successful. (This replaces rolling a d2 and allows players with high speed to dodge more successfully, unless they are against highly accurate opponents.)

My remaining suggestions are about special traits the various weapons can have; to further differentiate the characters.

4. Ranged weapons (bows, throwing daggers) allow the attacker first strike, unless they are taken by surprise. In the event that both player and enemy have first strike weapons, roll a d2. If you roll a one, then you strike first.

5. Berserker: Each consecutive strike from a melee weapon doubles the damage. (Ex. Three hits in a row: 4x base damage.)


If you are still having trouble with all the math, I'm going to be making an excel document to act as a battle calculator. Once the formulas are set in stone, I'll post it here.
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Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:48 am
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Light_Devil! says...



Grif, I am in love with you... Purely platonically, of course. ;)

Thank you for the simple explanation. My words were obviously too convoluted and confusing. Again, I thank you! I will refer people to your description, if they ask. :D

Yes, not using accuracy is a bit of an oversight, considering two of you automatically upgrade it. Your suggestions about accuracy are accepted and considered rules.

I will make a master post about rules of combat on the DT soon.

However, your recommendations about the special traits of weapons need to be changed a bit.

The ranged weapon traits are brilliant. And I have forgot to mention that staffs can be both melee or range, depending on your class. Mages will use the staff to fire magic spells and along with other classes they may use them to smack people, if wanted.

However, there was no mentioned restriction for going Beserker, which makes melee weapons overpowered.

Therefore, melee weapons should roll a d6, to see the number of times they are allowed to attempt to hit and then for each attempt after a successful first hit, they should roll a d2 and if a 1, then they hit. If they don't get a 1, then they roll again until the amount that they initially rolled with the d6.

Thank you for your help, Grif. I know my combat system is far from perfect and I greatly appreciate your help.

Anyone else who has ideas to make fighting more useful, please feel free to comment.

Also, it has come to my attention that dodging and defending don't take off stamina. XD They probably really should.

Therefore consider the rule for an attack for reducing stamina, equal to the rule of dodging and defending, except using your Speed and Defense, as opposed to your attack.

Master Post is coming up soon, so that'll help, I think. ;)
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Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:17 pm
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Light_Devil! says...



COMBAT SYSTEM MASTER POST


So, this is taken directly from Grif's explanation:

Golden Rule - If uncertain, follow the story.

1. Determine who is attacking first.

There is currently no official way to go about this. The golden rule is applied. If the group is ambushed, the advantage goes to the enemy. If the group identifies the enemy at distance, then the heroes have advantage.

2. Determine whether the defender will dodge or defend.

This requires a look at the stats. If the defender has an advantage over the attacker in speed, then he should choose to dodge. If the defender has a higher defense than the attack of the attacker, then he will probably prefer defending to dodging.

Mechanics:

A. If an attacker hits their target, roll a d100. If the value of the roll is greater than (100%-Attacker Accuracy%), then the attacker deal double the damage they would ordinarily.

B. When a defender chooses to defend against an attack, roll a d100. If the value rolled is less than 50%+Defense%-Attacker Accuracy%, then the attack misses. (This replaces rolling a d2 and allows players with high defense to succeed in defense more often, unless they are up against a highly accurate opponent.)

C. When a defender chooses to dodge an attack, roll a d100. If the value rolled is less than 50%+Speed% - Attacker Accuracy%, then the dodge is successful. (This replaces rolling a d2 and allows players with high speed to dodge more successfully, unless they are against highly accurate opponents.)

3. Calculate damage done.

This is Attack*(100%-Defense%) If the defender has a defense of ten, then it is (100%-10%)=90%.

4. Repeat until finished.

Weapon Traits:


Ranged weapons (bows, throwing daggers):

Allows the attacker first strike, unless they are taken by surprise.

In the event that both player and enemy have first strike weapons, roll a d2. If you roll a one, then you strike first.

Melee weapons (sword, staff, axe, etc):

Allows Beserker; each consecutive strike from a melee weapon doubles the damage. (Ex. Three hits in a row: 4x base damage.)

Roll a d6 to see the number of times they are allowed to attempt to hit and then for each attempt after a successful first hit, roll a d2 and if a 1, then you hit. If they don't get a 1, then roll the d2 again, following this process, until you reach amount that you initially rolled with the d6.

Stamina Costs:


1. Attack vs. Dodge
= 7 * Attack * (Class Bonus)

This means that if you attack and your enemy is able to dodge successfully, then you'll be charged as if you had made attacked with all your strength and missed.

2. Attack vs. Defense
= 7 * Enemy Defense * (Class Bonus)

This means if you attack and your opponent defends successfully, then you attack up to how strong the enemy defense is.

3. Attack vs. Enemy [Failed defense/dodge]
= 7 * Enemy Defense * (1/2) * (Class Bonus).

This means that if your enemy fails to avoid or defend against your attack, that you only have to pay half of what you would have to pay if they defended successfully.

4. Defend =
7 * Enemy Attack * (Class Bonus)

If you defend successfully, you only have to defend up to the strength of the attack.

5. Dodge =
7 * Enemy Speed * (Class Bonus)

If you dodge successfully, you only have to run faster than your enemy, not as fast you can.

6. Failed Dodge =
7 * Speed * (Class Bonus)

If you try to outrun your opponent and fail, then you ran as fast as you could.

7. Failed Defense =
7 * Defense * (Class Bonus)

If your defense failed, then you tried as hard as you could to defend.

Base Regen

5 stamina/post
5 health/post
5 mana/post

P.S - Feel free to only have whatever amount of a battle in a post and then follow it through later on. This allows to have more people post in turn and not have people waiting around for others to finish. It also allows for collaborative team work. However, if you feel it is easy to finish an enemy in one post, then go ahead.

Also, download Grif's Excel document for further ease of battle.
Last edited by Light_Devil! on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:17 am, edited 5 times in total.
Dynamic Duo AWAY!!!

A computer once beat me at chess. It was no match for me at kick boxing.

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Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:44 pm
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Laminated says...



OOOHHH *smacks forehead* Right. I didn't realize the difference between defending and dodging. I'll get on that.
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Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:26 pm
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Griffinkeeper says...



Light, the calculator is almost ready. Can you clarify the rules for stamina, mana, and health regeneration?

Also, stamina costs seem a bit unfair. If someone with an attack of one attacks a person with a defense of 10, then the attacker spends 7 stamina, but the defender spends 70 stamina. There is no reason for the defender to exert himself ten times as much to defend against an attacker who is weaker.

I suggest that the cost formulas be arranged this way.

Spoiler! :
1. Stamina (Attack vs. Dodge) Cost=7*Attack*(Class Bonus)

This means that if you attack and your enemy is able to dodge successfully, then you'll be charged as if you had made attacked with all your strength and missed.

2. Stamina(Attack vs. Defense) Cost= 7*Enemy Defense*(Class Bonus)

This means if you attack and your opponent defends successfully, then you attack up to how strong the enemy defense is.

3. Stamina(Attack vs. Enemy [Failed defense/dodge])=7*Enemy Defense*(1/2)*(Class Bonus).

This means that if your enemy fails to avoid or defend against your attack, that you only have to pay half of what you would have to pay if they defended successfully.

4. Stamina (Defend) Cost=7*Enemy Attack*(Class Bonus)

If you defend successfully, you only have to defend up to the strength of the attack.

5. Stamina (Dodge) Cost=7*Enemy Speed*(Class Bonus)

If you dodge successfully, you only have to run faster than your enemy, not as fast you can.

6. Stamina(Failed Dodge) Cost=7*Speed*(Class Bonus)

If you try to outrun your opponent and fail, then you ran as fast as you could.

7. Stamina(Failed Defense) Cost=7*Defense*(Class Bonus)

If your defense failed, then you tried as hard as you could to defend.


EDIT:
Spoiler! :
I also suggest that we split the Mana Skill into two skills: Mana Attack and Mana Defense. Mana Attack would be base mana+weapon mana, while Mana Defense would be base mana+armor mana.

This would allow us to calculate how well targets would react to getting hit by magical attacks, versus physical attacks.


If people are getting freaked out by all the math formulas, don't worry. I'm building an easy-to-use excel document which will instantly calculate all these values for you.
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Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:27 pm
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Griffinkeeper says...



Here is a beta version of the calculator. It isn't official, some of the formulas used are still pending approval. This is more to give you guys an opportunity to see how it would look and work.
Attachments
Blind River beta.xls
(28.5 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
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Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:55 am
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Light_Devil! says...



I didn't want to make the combat too complicated, but since you've developed the battle calculator, feel free to suggest more as well.

Your stamina forumlas look better. I hadn't considered the unfairness when I realised that dodging and defending should cost stamina.

The splitting of the two types of magic is interesting and I think with the way I've made attire and weapons, it should fall into play quite nicely.

You get an A+, Grif. :D

For information, here are the base regen:

5 stamina/post
5 health/post
5 mana/post

I'll add/edit this into the Master Post.
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A computer once beat me at chess. It was no match for me at kick boxing.

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"And I wish you didn't have Satan's curly red hair," - Ned Flanders.
  





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Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:48 pm
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Rydia says...



Really loving the battle calculator Grif! Thanks for making it for us, you're a legend <3
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Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:02 pm
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Laminated says...



The calculator is brilliant! Mucho gracias.
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Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:40 pm
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Redfang18 says...



I'm not dead, Light_Devil!. I posted on your wall that I needed help. I warned you that I was a slow learner.
Look down and show some mercy if you can.
Look down, look down, upon your fellow man.

~~~Les Miserables
  





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Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:07 am
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Light_Devil! says...



I never check my wall. In fact, not once have I ever said to contact me through my wall. I always refer people to the DT or to PM me. Don't worry, I'll edit my statement.

And please tell me what you need help with. Specifically, in a PM or here on the DT.
Dynamic Duo AWAY!!!

A computer once beat me at chess. It was no match for me at kick boxing.

"I wish Homer was my father," - Ned's son.
"And I wish you didn't have Satan's curly red hair," - Ned Flanders.
  





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Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:00 pm
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Laminated says...



Hey, guys. I'm gone for a week on a mission trip, I hope that's not a problem. Just wanted to let you all know :)
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:23 am
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Light_Devil! says...



That's alright, I think we're taking things slower now. ;)
Dynamic Duo AWAY!!!

A computer once beat me at chess. It was no match for me at kick boxing.

"I wish Homer was my father," - Ned's son.
"And I wish you didn't have Satan's curly red hair," - Ned Flanders.
  





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Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:28 pm
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Redfang18 says...



We might need an ExP post right about now to get the SB back on its rails.
Look down and show some mercy if you can.
Look down, look down, upon your fellow man.

~~~Les Miserables
  





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Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:35 am
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Laminated says...



Yeah, want to start us off again Light_Devil?
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