Young Writers Society

Before I start, I ask you all to wonder, is YWS really that helpful?

Sure, you could say that people can give you "constructive" critism on your writing. But what does that really mean to you? You read reviews by other people, and then think to yourself, "Oh yeah, I shouldn't have written that part like that." or, "Oh, that was sounding very cliche." How many of you actually go back to your work and rewrite everything, based on what people think? Maybe a few, but not a lot of people. In the end, your writing is still the same.

There are also the times when you get multiple reviews with completely different opinions. One might say "Wow, I loved it. That was so descriptive!" while someone else says, "I couldn't really connect with the reader. Not really descriptive. I personally didn't like it that much." After reading these two reviews, how would you feel? Confused? That's right. What are you supposed to do with your piece now?

Aaanndd, there's the type of reviews that are not constructive at all. They just make you feel like your writing's not worth even writing anymore! You might even give up on your piece when there is one bad comment on your work! Some people might disagree, but I've seen a lot of YWSers that just give up in the middle of their novels because there were bad reviews or not enough reviews at all.

Sometimes, YWS even feels like there are not enough supporters. How many times have you checked your piece to see if anyone new has discovered it and cared to leave a comment? And how many times have there been only a few comments? YWSers, get out there and be more active! Hundreds of writers are waiting to get a single comment about their piece! I think there are not enough people that actually follow you on the novel you're writing until the end. It's not their fault. There should be a gadget/tool on YWS that lets you have alerts when new chapters come out in a novel!

Lastly, all of us sit at home, facing the computer and surfing YWS. We occasionally add some stuff, do a few reviews, get disencouraged by some bad reviews, and get excited by some good reviews. Do we actually put ourselves to the world outside of YWS; actually publish a book or article? No, for about ninety-nine percent of us.

So, really, how helpful is YWS to our writing?

I ask you all just to think about it. Post what you think below!

Apparently it's helped you quite a bit:

September 4, 2009: topic48203.html#p597115
September 1, 2010: post758948.html#p758948

I agree with what a lot of your said.. it's supposed to take eight good comments to balance one discouragement.. so that can be a problem. However, having the community available is encouragement in itself.. while I do wish that people were more active, and commented more, any reviews at all (even if conflicting) help everyone shape their opinions and thoughts about writing, changing their writing style for the future altogether, generally for the better.

Personally, posting on websites and getting feedback has definitely encouraged me to write quite a deal more, and I have grown enormously in my writing. Not to say I'm all the way there.. I'm definitely not.
But it opens up different avenues, exposes people to different styles and ways of thinking about writing. Even if you don't go back and change specific writings according to what has been said, you will subconsciously take it in, and use those opinions for the future. I've been writing, when I suddenly stop myself and go, "Wait, no, remember that review? I don't want to do that."

Just simple things like that.
And it's just nice having that community of support.

Just my opinions of course.
Thanks for the thoughts.

-Coral-

You have to do a bit of critical thinking when you reevaluate your work, yes. Some comments you'll listen to, others you'll disregard. But thinking has never been a bad thing.

And I hope this means that you'll be looking to increase your own review ratio and increase the amount of reviews you do, per day? Maybe you'll be the one who changes everything!

Hi WritingWords, Pink here.

First of all, I agree with half of what you're saying. There are people who get reviews but don't go back and edit their work. I know I'm not one of them, when people review my work, I usually go back to edit it, especially my novels. Sometimes I edit my work on my computer but don't edit it on YWS.
Also, there are people who don't wish to review even if the piece was good. If I find something I like I want that author to know that I liked, even if I don't have anything to say or any advice because I know one good comment can make someone very happy. :] Although, I try my best to give advice >.<
From my experience though, I really think YWS has helped me become a better writer. I've learned many things from this site and from the constructive reviews I've been given and I truly thank them all for it, because without the members on YWS I wouldn't be writing like I am now or catching things in novels that I never thought about before.
The people here, as Coral mentioned, are all diverse with different styles and ideas and honestly, it makes you grow as a writer, being exposed to so many different levels of writing that is.
That's just me though

~Pink

Okay, the thing is: I like YWS, too. But I really think it can really improve. This article was NOT meant to be offensive in any way. I'm just saying that I bet all of you have experienced the things described here. Just think about it. Sure, it helps me improve my writing-by a little. But then, does it actually help you improve until you are really proud of your work and a lot of people notice your piece? A lot of the same users here get to be a featured member again and again. We need more change. More attention to everyone, even if they are new.

You'll get out of YWS what you put into YWS. If you want reviews, then go review. We do have a tool for keeping up with a project-- "follow" that person, and every time they add a literary work you'll be notified. Or get them to PM you when they post something new. If you get conflicting reviews, then either get a third opinion or just analyze them yourself against your story-- which advice makes sense? It's normally pretty easy to tell when someone has no idea what they're talking about and just say "OMG I LOVE IT" to everything they read. Also, if you get one complimentary review and one critical one, then it only takes common sense to realize that it's in you're best interests to try and improve anything to meet the higher standards of the more critical reviewer. And if you can't take some constructive criticism with a grain of salt, it's hard to make it in the writing business.

Oh! And featured works are not a "let's make sure everyone gets their name on the front page" type of thing. You have to earn a feature-- if the same users are earning featured spots over and over again, then they've done something right. If you think some newer or under-appreciated members need a featured work, go "Like" their story! All the stuff you've mentioned are things you can do yourself to spearhead the effort.

WritingWords wrote:Lastly, all of us sit at home, facing the computer and surfing YWS. We occasionally add some stuff, do a few reviews, get disencouraged by some bad reviews, and get excited by some good reviews. Do we actually put ourselves to the world outside of YWS; actually publish a book or article? No, for about ninety-nine percent of us.

What does the Y in this site stand for?

Young Writers, young. This is a site for young people, there are not many 10-15 year olds that get published, or have a job where they can submit articles too. This site is to improve young minds, if you think you can come on and get a few reviews, then go out and get published you are dreaming. You have to suck for a long time, then even longer before you can get close.

Also, there are people on this site who go out and create things for us, the site it self has a literary magazine you can get into.

In the end, YWS can not do all the work for you. it is not the job of YWS to tell you what to do, it is not supposed to write a book for you. It is supposed to be a way to learn some tips. If you have reviews that point out the same things, every time, then you learn to work on that. Lots of writers, hell all writers before the age of the computer, got to be where they are without any help. YWS is an aid, just like any other site on the internet.

YWS has been incredibly helpful in my case. Paragraphs, grammar and feedback. And of course, I don't try to please everyone by editing my stuff according to their advice, but the very fact that people are giving honest feedback is already enough.
I can only become a writer through hard work, and through studying the masters of the various lit fields, not through trying to write the way an international bunch of young aspiring writers would like me to write. We take that as given. But when someone actually takes the time to thoroughly read my stuff and try to help me improve it, even if 85% of the review is well-meaning garbage, the other 15% are the things which I myself can't see even if I walk on my hands and jump through hoops.
A community of people you don't know in real life, and with whom you're not competing for virtual currency like in 'authonomy', is the best tool for real feedback. Whether you make this feedback useful for yourself is up to you.

YWS is certainly helpful!

Of course, you'll get your share of unhelpful reviews, too, but you don't have to regard those at all. It really is just about sorting through the reviews and finding out who is helpful and honest, instead of people who just come and say: "great work, bye," because that won't help you, as writer, improve.

But I'm sure that if you look through the reviews you get, you'll certainly find at least one or two helpful reviews! And if not, you can always visit the Review for Food forum, to find great reviewers that are more than happy to help you improve your writing.

~Mizz

I know I haven't been on YWS very long (but I've enjoyed my time here immensely), but I'm no stranger to young writer foruming. I've been an admin of a different young writers' forum for five years, and I've done my share of snooping on other sites out of curiosity. But, YWS is the first site where I've snooped, decided to join... and then stayed. And I stayed because YWS has a lot of things going for it, which I'll get to in a second.

First, I want to say that there are only so many things that a writing site can be and still be successful. YWS is a large writing site. Therefore, it can't be a like a small writing site, like the one I admin. And I wouldn't want YWS to be like the site I admin. That would, frankly, be terrifying. And even though I wish I could post something on my writing site and have, in theory, five comments within the hour, I know that'd be impossible, and just as scary. I tried for many foolish years to turn my site into The Perfect Writing Site, but it can't exist. YWS won't ever be perfect either, but nor would you want it to be.

But, as Evi mentioned, you get out of YWS what you put into YWS, and that's not true on most other young writing sites where I've gone snooping. On some, you have older members who go and rip the newbies to shreds, and thus the newbie doesn't even get a chance. Or, at the first member who comes along who knows how to capitalize an 'I,' there's instant OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGz and the serious young writer never learns anything at all.

For the young writer truly serious about his/her writing, or truly serious about getting serious, YWS is a goldmine of opportunities. A huge mix of talents and backgrounds, a wide range of skill levels. A member who's dedicated writes those reviews, and strives to learn from the reviews (it's true, that phrase about not knowing anything until you teach something). And that member gets those reviews on his/her own work. And maybe s/he doesn't go polish the piece up into a perfect little gem of a chapter or a short story of a poem, but, s/he might, as Pink Shearwater mentioned, remember that advice the next time s/he's considering describing the narrator's eyes as "emerald orbs of wonder" through a mirror.

And for the young writer who randomly typed a story one day and then, being Internet savvy, decided that sharing that piece was the right thing to do and thus found YWS... YWS is also helpful. Some of those writers might post and never come back, because some reviewer said that you can't have a character stand in front of a mirror, or describe that character's eyes as emerald orbs 9,999,999 times out of 10,000,000, and the writer took affront. But, some of those members might say, "Oh? You can't do that... I didn't realize [that there were actually standards for stuff in the writing world]." And even if some other member absolutely raves about that bit of description... that young writer is learning to be critical of his or her writing, and the works of other writers. And that writer might become like the writer in the previous paragraph.

And YWS is even helpful for writers like myself. I didn't come here to be serious about my writing. On the contrary, I came here to be serious about other people's writing, and, for the most part, unserious about my own. I'm here for the socialization, and for the passing on of the stuff I've learned over the years. Which is still helpful for my own writing, in a roundabout way. Helping other writers and stopping comma abuse makes me feel good about myself. Hanging out with other writers, who understand phrases like "My characters are on strike right now" just feels good. And when I feel good, I press the backspace button less, and the letter keys more.

And therefore, at risk of starting another sentence with 'and,' YWS is extremely helpful. Maybe not for every young writer out there, but for me, and for a lot of others, definitely so.

Okay...as I said, I like YWS too. I go on it at least once a week if I can! I'm not trying to make YWS look bad. It's just that I want to see what you all think. That's it.

Ignoring the discussion momentarily... let's talk your writing.

In this article, or perhaps argument, you seem to be very opinion based. Obviously not in the fashion for anyone to interpret your writing as ignorant, but in a good way as to say that you're passionate about one side. I also enjoyed the confidence of the subject; it's always good to question whether or not something is really doing what it's supposed to do. Whether or not this article is aimed at yourself personally and what you get out of YWS or whether it be someone different is irrelevant because all your doing is raising a point. A point, in return, which is discussed. The very fact you have provoked a discussion here amongst members is demonstration enough to show your writing has a quality to inspire and question, which is all very good it being argument based.

However, there are minor points where even though you bring up two sides, you seem a little dismissive of the side that suggests people get a lot out of YWS. There's some gross generalisations, such as a suggestion more people don't edit their writing than those that do resulting in your writing being the same. Your point that people more likely don't go back to edit their writing is probably very valid, but at the end of the day what they're influenced by in other people's reviews will eventually go on to improve their writing. Even if that be subconsciously or consciously. Therefore, to improve your article and satisfy your reader audience further it helps to avoid generalisations, unless of course your attempting to be irreverant or funny; which, personally, I don't think you are.

Anyway, it's a fair point to raise and with a bit of review of what your saying/how you put things across, you are in the process of becoming a very good at writing arguments.

Keep it up,
~Ben

I agree with mostly everyone here! This site has been really helpful for lots of people - me, particularly. For the longest time I couldn't get how to use punctuations for a dialogue and made constant mistakes on that. Many people mentioned it to me, even sent me links to help me with that, and now I get it.

As per my writing, it definitely helped! I used to write scenes where you had no idea what the characters were really feeling/seeing/thinking. Now I take it all into consideration, and many people say my story is much better! And those same people help me realise when something doesn't make sense, or if I forgot to mention certain details. It might suck to have someone give say there is a lot of problems with my story sometimes, but you know what? That's what I and that reviewer are here for; reviewing.

People have reviewed me, I have reviewed them and others. It's a vicious cycle that - hopefully - will never end and can continue helping others to better them in what they love: writing.

I probably thank Nate every time I get on this site. I'm almost 26 years old and I've always spoken of wanting to be a writer. This past year, since joining, I have actually become one. I have a reason to right now, because I get direct feedback. I don't edit what I've written on YWS after getting comments, but I directly apply it in my story, then skim the rest to make sure I haven't made that mistake anywhere else.

The 'follow' button is so great, because sometimes, other reviewers will forget to send you a PM, or thought they did, and you find their work only a few days later. By then, they're wondering why no one's commented. Haha, love 'following'. Now, I always get to stalk - I mean, review

I think it's a good idea to ask the question, like Ben Franks said, it started a good conversation amongst the users. And I definitely feel old when I read how old you all are (haha) but seriously, no matter the age, we all have a dream, all have expectations and I firmly believe that YWS helps us toward that.

Thanks again Nate and everyone who makes our dreams possible here!!

Tanya