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Are the politics too controversial...?



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Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:05 pm
rbalmore1 says...



I wrote a novel about two years ago. I'm just now sending it into the editor, who is also my mom. We have strong political views in my family, which aren't necessarily new or anything. We like the idea of a limited government, no taxes, few laws, etc. In my novel, I hit upon politics a lot.

The story is that of a girl, who finds out she's the crown princess of this country. When her father is abducted, she takes up his royal duties. The guy (and his massive army) who abducted her father, declares war on her country when the girl refuses to hand herself, or her country, into his possession. At the same time, the government branches of the country are doing all sorts of crazy things. Things that are unnecessary and harmful. The girl sets out to disintegrate the government and bring it back, under her rule. (Oh, and the girl isn't a kid, she's more like seventeen/eighteen, and very smart.)

I'm concerned readers may think this girl is like a dictator. I tried hard to limit government involvement in this story, and no threats on their part. Here is an excerpt. I really want people's opinions on it:


On the desk in front of Roeyn were papers that had been given to her by the army leaders. They listed the number of troops each division had, as well as how many weapons and vehicles, and anything they might need to lead a full-scale attack within a week. Roeyn tried to calculate how many troops and weapons she had in her head, but the stress of the situation was too much. She rubbed her temples and closed her eyes for a second.

“How long do we have until Paldonia declares war?” she asked, turning her head slightly Cody’s way, although she didn’t look at him.

“Two days,” was his simple answer, and she covered her face with her hands, rubbing her eyes as she did so. She had been up since four that morning and had not gotten much sleep during the two days she had already been in Bernel.

“Captain,” she said, dropping her hands and looking at Friderick. “Please hand me the list of figures.”

Friderick obliged and handed her the list. She looked over it, reading the figures to herself. Twenty thousand soldiers, ten thousand handguns and rifles, five hundred armored cars and tanks, four hundred fighter planes and transports, two million rounds of ammunition, thirty thousand grenades, and a fleet of over a dozen warships. An army that could fit in the state of Rhode Island, and could only defend Svetzar if Europe was at peace and Paldonia wasn’t bent on destroying it.

Roeyn looked up at her army leaders. She looked at each in turn, sizing him up and trying to figure out how he lived his life. She knew that it wasn’t their fault that Svetzar’s army was so small and weak.

"Twenty thousand soldiers?” she said finally, running her eyes across the sitting men. “We’re going to defend Svetzar with twenty thousand soldiers? In a war that starts day after tomorrow, whether we like it or not?”

The army leaders said nothing. They looked at each other and sighed, staring at their hands. They didn’t know what to say. Neither did Roeyn, but she had to say something, because she was in charge. This was her arena and her situation to resolve. She would have to clean up this mess her father made.

But even as she thought about it, she knew that it wasn’t even her father’s fault. It had been the Senate’s fault, for bringing about the law in the first place. The Congress and House had both voted for it, thinking it would help their country by sparing their sons and daughters from dying in battle. It was a good reason, Roeyn had to admit, but when war was involuntarily looming on the horizon, it was definitely not going to help.

Roeyn picked up the list of figures once more and leaned back in her chair, studying it.

“Twenty thousand soldiers in active duty at this moment,” she said aloud. “A hundred being outputted from the military academies every month. How many are turned away?” She directed this last question to Captain Friderick.

“On average, half a dozen come a day,” was the answer. “Only about two of those are accepted. The others are sent home.”

“How long does the training last for?”

“Two months for basic training. Two months for professional training.”

Roeyn was thoughtful for a moment. She stared unseeing at the piece of paper in her hands. Suddenly she sat up and leaned forward on her desk.

“If six were accepted a day, that would be an average of one hundred and eighty soldiers a month. If the training could be cut in half, or even more then that, then we might be able to keep a steady supply of man power flowing in to fuel our army.” By the time she was done talking, she had stood up and was pacing in front of the windows.

“Your Majesty, there is one detail you seem to forget,” said Commander Romando, speaking up. “The war starts in two days. There is no way around that.” The subject of handing Svetzar over to Vice Rodrigo had already been silently resolved. “We will have to fight, either in offense or defense. Our soldier’s lives will be taken away at a quick rate of speed. How can we bring our armies up if they will be taken down even faster?”

“We will refrain from fighting as much as possible,” was Roeyn’s answer. “If we must fight, it will be on the defensive. We’ll focus on staking out strongholds where we can easily shoot down our enemies defenses with little harm to ourselves. That’s all we can do. We can’t fight openly with Paldonia’s armies, because they are much bigger then our own. At least, until we have strengthened ours to the best of our ability.” Without waiting for a reply, she turned to Friderick. “Can it be done?”

“We will start accepting everyone who comes,” answered the Captain. “If we try hard enough, we may be able to fit the training into a single month. But there is another question that needs to be resolved. What about the law your father signed? It can’t be undone, and as long as it’s present, we’ll be heightening output illegally.”

“Leave it to me to take care of the Senate,” was Roeyn’s subtle reply. “You focus on bringing our armies up to strength.” She reseated herself. “Now, we need to form a plan to get things moving before the shooting starts.” The army leaders straightened in their seats, ready to follow any command. “I’ve already ordered strongholds to be staked out on the border with Paldonia. Surveyors are dealing with the other borders, in the off chance that our enemy will try attacking from a different direction. I need all of you to mobilize your troops, at least two thousand each. We’ll need back up if it is needed. General Lewell, you’ll be in charge of arranging the troops along the Svetzar- Paldonia border. Commander Romando, I’m giving you command of the ammunition banks and army vehicles. They need to be carefully hidden. General Verimore, I need you to send out the request for an up in aircraft manufacturing, and I want you to mobilize your air force and get it ready for immediate combat. Corporal Thompson, you need to mobilize your navy and have them patrol the French and Italian coast.” She looked at each one in turn as she spoke and then ran her eyes over them all. “I need everyone to be ready for combat by day after tomorrow. Am I understood?”

“Yes, Your Majesty,” was the group reply and Roeyn nodded.

“You may leave, then,” she said. “Await further orders.”

The men rose and departed immediately, heading off to carry out their separate duties. When they had gone, Roeyn once more sunk into her tired self. She leaned back in the big chair, feeling very small.

“You may leave as soon as possible to deal with the military academies,” she said to Captain Friderick. “See how many you can get without even trying. I’ll put a bulletin in the paper to see if I can get a few more. I won’t bring about the Draft unless it’s absolutely necessary. I won’t sacrifice my people’s lives like that.”

“Nor should you have to,” said Friderick, bowing to her. “I will carry out your command. Is there anything else you would like me to do?”

“If you could prepare my car for me, I would like to go see Senator Long.”

“As you wish, Your Majesty.” Friderick bowed again and turned, leaving the room and closing the door behind him.
Roeyn looked at the bookcases, deep in thought. She found herself staring at a picture of Edward and Lesiley on their wedding day. She closed her eyes and suddenly the day came back to her. She could remember everything that had happened, and most vividly in her mind was the British royal family. And then she had an idea.

“Find me the contact information for William of Edinburgh,” said Roeyn suddenly to Cody, though she didn’t turn to him.

Cody stirred and opened one of the desk drawers. Roeyn did not open her eyes, though she could hear him. He pulled out a thick notebook and thumbed through it for a minute.

“Ah, here we are,” he said finally. “Do you want his residence in Toronto? Or London? Or Edinburgh?”

“Where do you think he’d be?” asked Roeyn, opening her eyes and looking up at Cody.

“Probably in Toronto, since he said he’d be there for a while to keep an eye on Peter.”

“The Toronto number then,” replied Roeyn, closing her eyes again and leaning back in the chair. “Tell him I need to ask him another favor. Ask him if he has any spare troops he’d be willing to mobilize.”

Cody looked at Roeyn for a moment, shocked at her nerve. She opened one eye and returned his gaze. Then she closed it again, her face unchanged. Cody shook his head grimly. He picked up the phone and dialed the number. And all the while, he couldn’t help but think what a crazy idea this was.


In this story, the girl eventually does bring about the Draft, which was very hard for me to write. I felt is was necessary, though. Critical opinions are greatly accepted at this point. Do you think the politics are too controversial? If so, how should I change it? I don't want my mom completely freaking out, and I have no choice in my editor. She has to read it.
  





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Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:03 pm
Rosendorn says...



Hello.

First, I'd like to say that, since you're on YWS, you do have a choice in editors! If your novel is complete, you can post it in the Advanced Critique section, once you have a reviewed a novel already posted there. Then, reviewers can look at your whole novel for plot, characters, and the politics.

However, from this excerpt I think you have a handful of issues:

Mary Sue-
A Mary Sue is a character who doesn't have that many visible flaws and just seems to "know" everything about a situation without really having experience in or the training to handle the situation. This could be because this is an excerpt, but this line in her backstory:

The story is that of a girl, who finds out she's the crown princess of this country.


Makes me think that she has no training in politics. This makes her doing anything right because of her knowledge rather unbelievable.

Geography inaccuracy-
I did a search on "Svetzar" and "Paldonia" to see if they were real countries, because the whole "Europe" thing made me think this was somewhat based in real life. Unless this is sci-fi, and it has been explained previously how/when/why these countries formed, then it's hard to believe the setting since neither of your country names turned up in a Google search.

Also, please explain to me how somebody who lives in Edinburgh, which is in the North of the UK and probably across the English Channel and a few countries from this place, would even be considered for helping them? It's just... not feasible. (Also, Toronto is in Canada. I'm wondering why he is there in the first place).

The politics as a whole-
... In short, needs work.

Do some research into why a country is set up the way it is. It's not just the head-of-state's whim that causes laws to be formed. It's for the best of the country, the budget, what's required to maintain the city, why the structure has been set up this way and hasn't changed, ect. I'd suggest looking at this article about things to consider in a political landscape.

I'd also take a look at this article about dealing with messages. The summary of the article, and it's a short article, is "Put the story in front of any morals you want to slip in." Basically, tell your mom this is just a story and you don't believe in it, but the plot and characters are demanding you go this way.

The reason I draw attention to this is because I have read stories where the message and the author's ideals got put over the story. The result was a great series getting put down because characterization, plot, pacing, everything was sacrificed to get the message in.

Hope this helps. PM me if you have any questions.

~Rosey
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  





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Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:01 am
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rbalmore1 says...



Thanks Rosey! I understand my excerpt didn't exactly make since. I was just talking about the politics, not about how this girl knows so much, and what in the world Svetzar is. But I'll give you a little backstory, so you can understand it more:

This girl, Roeyn, was raised by her mother in the U.S. She was given a substantial education..."training" if you will...with her mother focusing most on teaching her about politics and the military. After learning about her position in society, she was sent to a special school where she learned more on both subjects. That's how she knows so much.

Svetzar is a fictional country. This story takes place about a century from now, which is why I took the liberties of making an entirely new country in Europe. Svetzar is actually composed of Switzerland and a bit of France, Austria, and Germany. The details around the conquering are a bit difficult to explain, so I won't at the moment. Paldonia is a new name given to the remainder of Germany. This is completely fictional. None of this, I hope, will ever happen in Europe.

Roeyn is good friends with one of the British royals, and was previously betrothed to a noble in Scotland. The British royal she is friends with has a residence in Toronto, where he is watching over her baby brother. I figured, since Canada used to be associated with Britain, why not have someone royal from Britain residing in Canada?

I'm aware the politics are a bit rough. I had a story in mind, and in order for it to work, there had to be politics. Yeah, it would have been great without them, but I don't think it would have worked as well.

In short, this is a fictional story. I'm just afraid someone will actually take it seriously.
  





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Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:34 am
Rosendorn says...



Yes, I realize you have some backstory to this. But my original points still stand.

The Mary Sue thing isn't just how she seems to know everything— it's how everybody goes along with it all without a whisper or the blink of an eye. Yeah, she's the leader, but she's also young, inexperienced in real-world situations (training is only half of it. You need actual experience) and basically waltzed into the country claiming to be the princess and takes over. Even if you have her father saying she's his daughter, nobles probably won't believe that.

And the geography... allow me to show you how I've pictured the map:
EuropeMap_altered.jpg
EuropeMap_altered.jpg (115.1 KiB) Viewed 40 times


The purple dot in the UK is Edinburgh, the green blotch at the bottom is Svetzar (as I've approximated it), the light blue is Paldonia. The orange is the route Edinburgh's troupes would need to take in order to reach Svetzar (Notice how long it is. Considering the amount of resources it takes to transport large groups of people, especially a working army, that's a lot to ask for a single favour). The dark blue is all the places Paldonia can intercept Edinburgh's troupes. And they would try to intercept them. Because weakening a country is not just about hitting them head on, but also about making sure they will slowly crumble from lack of help and lack of supplies. Depending on the allies you've set up in this war, then the interception points would change. But, the ones inside Svetzar would probably happen.

Also, you have 12 warships for an inland country. This makes no sense to me. If I've gotten the map horribly wrong please correct me, but I don't know why warships are even being taken into consideration at this point because it's an on-land fight.

And 20k soldiors is not a lot. Unless the previous guy was insane to cut troupes by that much, it's way, way understaffed. The supplies, also, are insanely low. Even if you have a backhistory as to why this is so low, don't have everybody just sit back and let the supplies rust out. Black market, underground factories, a bunch of questionable means would prevent this from actually happening. And if the people cared about their military, then they wouldn't leave the country defenceless.

And I was not saying you should avoid politics. I was saying you should do research into how politics works. I gave you my article on how the political environment is, and no I was not taking a sample from an overly corrupt government. I was taking it from your average, everyday government (which, by default, has a certain amount of corruption in it). In fact, the only time you don't have that sort of political environment is a totalitarian government: ie, a dictatorship. But even then, government becomes corrupt and rebels begin showing up. There were 42 attempts to kill Hitler and a lot of them came from within his inner circle.

You have quite a lot of internal inaccuracies, politics-wise, as well. If she dissolves the government then there is no Senate to let laws die in. If she's in control of the country then she can remove any laws she wants. I'd take a look at the actual structures of all the styles of government you're trying to incorporate here and see what each mean for those in power. Right now, she is, in effect, a dictator for dissolving the government.

Now for the whole history thing. A century into the future... and I see no technology advancements. I'd suggest you take a look at this video (titled "Did you know 4.0" The previous version, Did you know 3.0 is also informative) which is about how quickly technology is improving and information is expanding. And it is basically impossible to stop such a flow of information, even if the government took control of all information. China is a prime example; they try to block access to the Internet, but it is still happening. Information is still being multiplied and getting out. And it causes a human rights outcry from other countries. I would expect a world 100 years ahead would have some shiny new tech at its fingertips. And to have changed past geography.

There is also the whole concept of a monarchy to address... how did it happen, and why did it happen? I know very few people who are in favour of monarchies, mostly because of how engrained human rights have become into people. One of those rights is picking who leads us. If you have an explanation, that's fine. But make sure you have that explanation somewhere in your world's backstory.

Have you ever read 1984? Animal Farm? Both of those had scary political situations, but they show how far we can fall if we're not careful. That's what makes them fantastic and well-loved books. Don't be afraid of that sort of dark plot because dark plot tend to be the chilling ones, the memorable ones, the ones that make you look at life differently because you can see just how controlling things can get.
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Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:22 pm
rbalmore1 says...



Your map is fairly accurate. I forgot to mention, and had to look back in my writing to find this small detail, that Svetzar's section of France extends all the way to the Mediterranean, thus the reason for warships. Also, although I doubt I had mentioned this in my writing, I had intended for the troops from Edinburgh to either pass through France (an allied country to Svetzar) or pass through the Strait of Gibraltar and thus to Svetzar from there. I had no intention of them going anywhere near Paldonia until they had reached Svetzar.

You cannot easily understand my story from only two pages of it. There is a lot of back-story. For example, the reason Svetzar's troops are so low, has to do with something done many years earlier. Let me also explain the politics. Roeyn dissolved the government for one reason: to give power back to the people. Aware that it is impossible not to have a government, she brought it back under her rule, so she could keep it under control. Weakened, the government could no longer control the people of Svetzar. And because Roeyn was in charge of it, no one could build it up again without getting past her. I don't believe what Roeyn did was start a dictatorship. By dissolving the government, she gave freedom to the people, and allowed them to do as they would, without government influence. Her goal was simply to hold the government down, not rise up herself and control the people as she wanted to. Her position changed from a traditional monarchy, to something a little different. For more information about a weak government and a country run by the people, be sure to check out the books by Richard Maybury.

I might also point out that this novel was written in 30 days. I averaged 5000 words a day, which is a lot. If I had had more time, say, a year or more, I might have spent more time on getting everything straight, then just getting it down. The initial story, like I said, is about the girl, not about the politics. I have a very difficult time getting my thoughts on politics down on paper. That's why my main question was, "Are the politics too controversial?" People may think my main character brought up a dictatorship, but that is definitely not my intention.

As it were, this novel needs serious help. If it has caused such confusion and problems with one person, I can only imagine what it will cause for other people. The story, I like. The politics, are a bit rough. At least, Rosey, you have allowed me to see that it is indeed controversial. I will undoubtedly contemplate your words and see how best I can fix this...
  





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Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:33 pm
Rosendorn says...



Since you seem to be so concerned about this being a dictatorship, here is the definition of dictatorship from Wikipedia:

A government controlled by one person or a small group of people. In this form of government the power rests with one person. Such power is often obtained forcibly. A dictator usually takes away much of people's freedom.


Emphasis mine.

You can have a benign dictator, in which they do not bring in totalitarian law/remove a person's freedom, but because she has taken control of the government and has total control of the laws, she has formed a dictatorship. Notice, in the last sentence of the definition, the word "usually." It is not mandatory for a dictatorship. Source.

Also, I'd like to point out that by that logic a monarchy is also a form of dictatorship. The definition, from Wikipedia again:

A monarchy is a form of government in which all political power is absolutely or nominally lodged with an individual or individuals.


Following this logic, that absolute power equals a dictatorship, a monarchy is also a dictatorship. This is not directly from the source, but I have run this by several people and they agree. Source for quote

And to help you with the planning of things, here are some questions to ask yourself:

Svetzar's section of France extends all the way to the Mediterranean, thus the reason for warships.


Why are they being listed for an on-land fight as a serious contender for being used? (Implied serious consideration, because she did not discount them right off the bat)

I had no intention of them going anywhere near Paldonia until they had reached Svetzar.


What is stopping Paldonia from intercepting the troupes once they enter Svetzar?

For example, the reason Svetzar's troops are so low, has to do with something done many years earlier.


Why haven't the generals trained more troupes against the law in case of an emergency?

Weakened, the government could no longer control the people of Svetzar.


What happens when the people are no longer controlled? If you look at the history of France, at least, along with Ancient Egypt and a few other countries I could name, the result is usually anarchy. See, in particular, the French Revolution. The government lost control and anarchy happened.

By dissolving the government, she gave freedom to the people, and allowed them to do as they would, without government influence.


See the note on anarchy above.

Her goal was simply to hold the government down, not rise up herself and control the people as she wanted to. Her position changed from a traditional monarchy, to something a little different.


See my above two definitions of monarchy and dictatorship.

The initial story, like I said, is about the girl, not about the politics.


This is more a comment than a question: I have a novel about a girl who gets thrust in a political situation, and the story is about how the girl has to defeat the bad guy. But, because of the political setting, the politics play a big part. Politics in a story is rather insidious. It will effect the story whether you like it or not. The trick is learning about the politics (I recommend researching the structures of your conquered countries, as a century isn't that long for thing to change, for a base as your world's political structure) so you know how the story will be altered by the course of politics.

Also, it has taken me at least three years to get the politics in the story all sorted out. I'm still working on it. I know another author still working on her novel after seven years, and it's a society comment. I would really take the time to research, because research is the framework for a good novel.
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Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:34 am
rbalmore1 says...



Alright, I completely understand your point. However, this is just a fictional story. Perhaps, if it played out on a different planet, with aspects so unlike our own world, the matters of politics and military movements would not matter so much. Stories I write that play out on Earth, during this time period, using this technology, do not come easily to me. I prefer stories of far off places, daring knights, beautiful princesses, and a political situation that just is, because it's fantasy, and needs no explanation, for it is not real life. I am aware that there are two types of people in the world. Those who read books for the sheer pleasure of it, and those who try to read anything and everything into the words. I classify myself as the former, and when I write, my intent is to serve those who just want a good, interesting read, to help them relax in a world that is so hard to relax in. I am sorry if is particular story is so difficult to understand in a real world point of view. It just is.
  





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Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:08 pm
Rosendorn says...



I'd just like to point out that my world is fantasy. :P I discovered politics were required for my plot to work, so I went through and made it past "stock" fantasy elements to make it more realistic and more twisted. It was a lot of work, but looking at the world now it's got so many twists and subplots I consider the work worth it.

There is also the fact that if you make things too unlike Earth than nothing will make sense. So it must have some parallels to Earth. It's actually more work to start from scratch and make it sensical than doing the research and modifying an Earthen political structure. Chances are, considering the variety of political structures on Earth, it'll end up having a parallel anyway. Might as well start from an Earthen structure base and just modify it instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

As for the amount of work that goes into this, you can take two routes:
~ Go for the average audience. Not the best research, but, hey, whatever, people are just reading for entertainment.
~ Make the story entertaining, but also make it so people who know what they're talking about will enjoy the story and not think the author just threw together what sounded good instead of spending the time to make it realistic.

Hope this helped.

~Rosey
A writer is a world trapped in a person— Victor Hugo

Ink is blood. Paper is bandages. The wounded press books to their heart to know they're not alone.
  








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