Young Writers Society

(Frak, I had a long post all typed up and then I...lost it. Oh well)

Anyway...I've returned to YWS after a rather long break, a break mostly induced by a certain Scholastic Aptitude/Achievement/Attitude/A****/whatever Test, as well as mad last-minute cramming for Academic Decathlon. Well, now the SAT is over and the AcaDeca stuff has simmered down (for now...), so I can devote more time to YWS.

I've returned, and I've discovered something about myself:

I don't know how to write.

No, no; I've got a good working idea of how to string together nouns and verbs to form semi-coherent sentences. The problem I have is more with the process of writing--specifically, novel writing. I just can't do it. Part of the problem stems from my own capricious nature; I've got too many ideas to work with. Just when I've fallen in love with one idea, a new one comes by and drags me in the opposite direction.

My greatest problem lies with actually planning, though. I'm well aware that when it comes to writing longer works there seem to be two distinct approaches--one is to let everything all pour out in a mad rush of inspiration; the other is to methodically plan and outline. The trouble is that neither seems to work very well for me. I try to outline every plot point in the story, but then I start fretting that the plot isn't making sense or I simply can't figure out how the plot should proceed, so I try actually writing some to "get into the feel of it". Then I inevitably run out of inspiration and I fizzle out, so I decide that I need to outline some more. I outline some more, but again I get into fits concerning plot and characters, and again I decide to "oh-well-what-the-hell" go ahead and write. And again, and again, the cycle cruelly repeats.

I know that every writer needs to find his/her own style and pace and stride and whatnot, but I would really appreciate some hints/pointers here, particularly from writers who already have gotten very far on long, intricately-plotted novels. Thanking you all in advance.

Segueing from the ranting, then, on to several of the ideas brimming in my head that I'm most favorable to (at least at the moment):

The Zenith Cycle: I've actually posted several chapters from the first novel on this site, but (per usual) my inspiration faded and I simply got stuck. This six-novel cycle is, however, the dearest to my heart and the one idea I've had that I've never fallen out of love with. One way or the other, I am going to write the cycle; I probably just won't do it as my first major project. In particular, the first novel is giving me fantastic fits. *sigh*

An Idea Which Has No Name (facetiously referred to as "wheel world"): Basically, a very epic modern-ish fantasy series focusing on a boy who discovers that all of reality involves a bunch of huge wheels turning on a giant scaffold. He travels with a band of outcasts to fix the wheels, which have stopped spinning or something. Honestly not as lame as it sounds. I like this idea quite a bit, but have been caught in a turmoil between doing outlining and background work and actually writing it (as usual).

Waker of the Guardians:: A more kiddish fantasy series with plenty of backstory and outlining, and a very straightforward plot. It will probably be the easiest to write, but I'm apprehensive about doing it because I don't know if my heart will be in it. And I'm worried it's too juvenile.

Curseworker Juan: The idea that seems the most feasible at the moment. I've already written one story for it, and if you'll look at my portfolio you'll see that lone story in a folder of its own. The folder was meant to hold many other stories set in the same universe, revolving around the same character...yet those stories never materialized because I couldn't find the inspriation to continue. Now I've warmed considerably to Juan, but I'm nervous because it isn't really the epic novel I'd like to write, more like a short story anthology.

Well, that was long and exhausting. Anyway, suggestions/help/hints/anything would be greatly appreciation. Thank you all.

If you're anything like me (and you sound like you are) you have too many ideas that lead off in too many directions. I have maybe forty novels (I'm exaggerating just a little bit) that are wanting to be written. My advice: concentrate on just ONE right now. The one that really strikes a chord in you the most, or the one that really, really moves you is usually the best starting choice.

And as for planning, I find it easier if I actually don't PLAN the whole thing out, but rather improvise the story as I go along. It's more fun that way, and more creative. You'd be surprised with what you can come up with on the fly.

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I know I need to concentrate on one idea at the moment, but the trouble is I don't know which. >_>

I've tried the improvising thing is, but the trouble is (for me at least) that leads to continuity errors like all hell. And if I don't have any idea where the plot is going the story simply falls apart. I suppose my problem is that I'm not a very organized person but the writing I want to do requires strong organization skills. Grrr.

Sounds like what Krupp said in my thread. Wait, exactly the same! Lol.

It takes a lot of work to outline and do all the legwork on setting out a good chunk of your novel before you actually write it, otherwise you are going to swim upstream with more and more material. It is likely to lose interest, be overwhelmed or succumb to any number of problems.

Focus on one, and outline one. Then write one. Even the best writers and most prolific of them all do this because it works.

The trouble is I really don't have the organized mindset to really create an in-depth outline...

I have created basic outlines before, but then I look back and realize that the plot events themselves don't make much sense at all. Seems to me that I have a "scene-based" style of writing, but that doesn't really work when it comes to weaving a coherent narrative...

Arrgh, maybe this is the sort of thing I need to figure out myself. I'd like feedback, though, on whether an outline-based or "get-it-all-out" based approach, or even a combination of the two, would be better, i.e. what works better for you? I need all the pointers I can get.

You sound like the kind of person who'd like the snowflake method of outlining.

Basically, you start with a simple plot and characters, then you gradually add details until you have a complete story. It works for some people - not myself, really, but you sound like somebody who'd like it.

Ha haaa...I think that's what I already do! At least that's what I did for Zenith, which is the most fully-outlined story I have at the moment...

Although again, the outlines I create usually aren't coherent. >_> I figure I should just bite the bullet and write them, incoherency and all, but the fact that my plot makes no sense usually kills any desire I have to write.

I really just need a way to ensure that the plots I create aren't incoherent. Easier said than done, I suppose...

: D Bizacker! I’ve missed you! (Also: You’re a Watchmen fan? No kidding? *squee*)

Ahem, back on topic. XD

Well, I know I’m not a huge, amazing writer, but I have just finished the second book in my trilogy, so I at least can finish things I start. (I think it’s my only talent) XD So, hopefully, I can give some non-ridiculous advice.

You said you work in a kind of scene-based way, and if I’m understanding your meaning by that (which I’m probably not XD) then it’s probably kind of similar to what I do, picking out individual scenes to develop, then filling in the gaps afterward. I don’t think there’s really anything at all wrong with that, though. I know there’re pitfalls, I’ve fallen into many—the hardest part for me is that I’ll develop individual scenes that are most interesting to me to ridiculous levels, sometimes all the way down to the prose and individual lines of dialogue, while forgetting to work with other scenes. XD When that happens, it usually helps to try and figure out what it would take to make those leftover scenes interesting to me—after all, if I think they're boring, the reader might, too.

But that’s all me, and I don’t think two methods usually work as well for two different people. XD

Seems like your biggest problem, though, isn’t the method, but the worry that the plot doesn’t really make sense, or worries about errors in continuity. I wouldn’t worry too much about the continuity errors if I were you—that’s what you have editors and beta-ers for (did I seriously just use “beta” as a verb? XD).

As for worrying that the plot makes no sense, that seems kind of like a problem of lack of confidence. I know how that feels, there are times when I just hate my story. Heck, most of the time, I’d probably rather put it through the paper shredder than let anyone else see it. The feeling I get when I see a new review for something I’ve written is more often nervousness than anticipation. I think in this case, it comes down more to commitment than anything else. XD It helps to have quite a few pages behind your back already; the more you’ve written, the more you feel like “after all the time I’ve spent on this, can I really throw it out?” And eventually, finishing it becomes a matter of principle. It’s not a flawless plan—I’ve gotten to this same point I’m at now with another trilogy (beginning the third book) and stopped, but it’s something that helps when nothing else will. So I guess try looking back on all you’ve written, think of the time you spent writing it, and think “should I really let all this go to waste….?”

(If it helps any, with what I’ve read of your stories, I really don’t think you’ve got a problem with the plots not making sense. All that I’ve read seems very well-plotted to me.)


I hope that makes a vague amount of sense. XD I know my approach to writing isn’t the greatest—it’s been learned all through trial and error, with what my language arts teacher is fond of calling the “shooting in the dark at the wall and hoping you hit something” approach, but it’s all I know. Failing advice is failing, y/y? XD

Missed you too, Zankoku (I can just call you that, right?)! It's been a while and I feel a bit guilty about not reviewing LoSLoR...I've just been so busy. >_> Really, I shouldn't even be on here, should be studying for AcaDeca instead, but...procrastination nation is a free nation.

Yeah, I have to get back on topic too...but yay for Watchmen love! Dr. Manhattan = love.

I’ve fallen into many—the hardest part for me is that I’ll develop individual scenes that are most interesting to me to ridiculous levels, sometimes all the way down to the prose and individual lines of dialogue, while forgetting to work with other scenes.

Wow...that's exactly like what I do. And it's incredibly detrimental to my writing, because I come up with really awesome scenes that, when I look back, don't make much sense at all and just convolute the plot further (because...they're always the plot-important scenes). When I think on it, I realize that my biggest problem is that I come up with all sorts of things that happen, but am hard-pressed to come up with the "why". Like, to take an example from Zenith, I know the frakking android shut down, but have honestly not come up with the why. So I think that shoots a hole into your belief that my stories are well-plotted, because Zenith seriously...isn't.

The trouble is, when it comes down the overarching mysteries and suchlike, I can't decide whether I'm revealing too much too soon or not enough. It's very difficult to find a balance... (not to mention, in most cases I have to figure out the mysteries myself).

I suppose the best thing to do is as you said, though--just bite the bullet and get writing. I'm aware that my most major problem is that I can't turn my inner critic off, that voice in the back of my head that snidely comments, "Gee, this doesn't make much sense at all!" or "I don't think you intended for that to happen!" while I'm busy writing. >_> I guess that (once I find the time, koff) I should just get cracking with my writing and not worry about whether it's perfect or not. After all, it's just a rough draft.

Thanks for all the advice!

You shouldn't be thinking about other people so much when you write. When you write you should focue on a project that YOU loe and that YOU enjoy writing. As long as it sounds good to YOU and you love it the you should go for it. It sounds like the Zenith Cycle is the story that you have your heart set for most so I would suggest writing that, nd when you get frustrated with that you can spend time workin on shorter and simpler to write short stories.